Patellar pain and warmup routine?

[Bahadur]

Was wondering what people are doing to 'warm up the joints' before a SS workout?

I'm 35 yo male, who's been on SS for 2 months. I've had major form issues re:Squats, mostly due to inflexibility and an inability to hit depth. I've worked that out (I think) and now getting to parallel, but still have patellar tendon soreness on my off days that gets worse during inactivity (ie, the tendons are REALLY stiff/sore in the morning, or after sitting in a chair for several hours).
Needless to say, this affects my 1st couple of warm-up sets, as I have a hard time hitting depth initially during those sets due to hesitance and pain. Eventually, I am able to overcome it and by my work sets, its gone.

Was wondering if anyone else has this issue? How do you guys warm up before even getting to the warm up sets? I find that the C2 rower helps 'lubricate' the knee and patellar tendons nicely before squats. Usually need to do about 5-10 minutes.

[misspelledgeoff]

39 yo with similar issues. I've had some success adding kneebends and two sets 10-15 bodyweight squats before the warmup. i put the bar about waist height and hang on to it while i do the bw squats. this helps me gradually increase depth and bounce as the knees, hips and legs warm--i f'ing hate trying to reach depth on cold, stiff joints. Also, I do at least 5 warmup sets starting with the bar, working up to 95% of workset weight.

you might pick up some neoprene knee sleeves and warm shorts. i am told these help keep the tendons warm. i will be trying these as well.

[bjvinson]

I'm 48 and I've noticed the same sorts of issues with warming up. I do 4 or 5 sets of 5-10 to reps with the bar gradually increasing depth. I've found that gradually increasing depth makes warm ups tolerable but I think the really important thing here is learning to keep your knees from traveling too far forward at the bottom of the squat.

I *think* this form issue, in my case anyway, is related to age and inflexibility because I don't remember having this problem when I was in high school when the only instruction I received was to go down until my butt touched a bench that was 11" off the ground.

[Bahadur]

Well, it is quite comforting to know that I'm not the only one with this issue. Truthfully, its bad enough that I dread the workouts only because I know how painful the warmup sets/ritual is going to be.

I do the BW squat stretch (as shown in BBT:SS) holding onto the power cage, but I try to hit depth on those reps right away. I might try what you suggest and work my way down to that depth, as opposed to trying to nail it right away. That may help with some apprehension I have. I'll give it a shot.

My squats have been a work-in-progress. If its not one thing, its another. First had major issues with depth, as manifest by horrible back pain. Now depth is fine but having issues with the carry position with resultant tendinitis in the elbow/shoulder (inflexible there too). Working on that, now this patellar issue is starting to flair up. Its unfortunate too, b/c despite being on the program for 2 months now, I'm still below 200 lbs for my squat due to these issues (constantly resetting due to form issues). Its frustrating and a little embarrassing, esp. when I log on here ( or 70sbig) and see how heavy the younger guys who've been on it a lot less are proceeding on squats. To me, their numbers are astronomical and have a humbling effect.

Let me know how the knee sleeves work out. I might give them a shot as well.

[misspelledgeoff]

your squats sound like mine. it literally took me fumbling and resetting for two months to get things ironed out. check my training log entry of 8/14 and 10/4. I am squatting the same goddam weight! but since October it's gone up nicely. stick with it and you will get there.

[Sal Webber]

Let me know how the knee sleeves work out. I might give them a shot as well.

+1 on the neoprene sleeves. I had the exact same pain you described but it's basically gone now. With experienced knees (36yrs old) it has made all the difference in getting warm and staying warm for me. Also, I'm not warm unless I feel beads of sweat sliding down my face...that's my que to start adding plates

[titan]

your squats sound like mine. it literally took me fumbling and resetting for two months to get things ironed out. check my training log entry of 8/14 and 10/4. I am squatting the same goddam weight! but since October it's gone up nicely. stick with it and you will get there.
Geoff and OP, there is nothing wrong with sticking to the same weight until you are doing legitimate depth squats and your form is correct to enable you to add weight to the bar safely without worrying about injury or failed reps due to poor form.

I would rather see a novice trainer (like myself) spend an extra day/week/month trying to perfect form at lighter weights, than to progress each week only to cause injury or failed attempts due to form issues and then have to reset back again anyway.

Or a bad knee injury causing days/weeks/months off and then having to start progress all over again.

[tennisgod]

Also, I do at least 5 warmup sets starting with the bar, working up to 95% of workset weight.

A warm-up set at 95% of workset weight is not a warm-up... its a workset. This is more akin to the Pyramid method which Rip trashes in one of his books.

I used to do this and by the time I got to my 'real' worksets, I was exhausted. I was stuck on the same weights for weeks. Now, I'm at 132kg squats and my last warm-up set will be 2 reps of 110kg.

[misspelledgeoff]

well i guess i misspoke. i do a set of 5 at no more than 60% of the workset. then i do singles up to 95% of the weight. i do 95% because i need to feel the heaviness before the workset.


A warm-up set at 95% of workset weight is not a warm-up... its a workset. This is more akin to the Pyramid method which Rip trashes in one of his books.

I used to do this and by the time I got to my 'real' worksets, I was exhausted. I was stuck on the same weights for weeks. Now, I'm at 132kg squats and my last warm-up set will be 2 reps of 110kg.

[Gary Gibson]

well i guess i misspoke. i do a set of 5 at no more than 60% of the workset. then i do singles up to 95% of the weight. i do 95% because i need to feel the heaviness before the workset.

I don't detail my warm ups in my log anymore, but this is indeed close to what I do.

I will squat without knee sleeves or belt this way: bar x 6, 135x3, 225x2, 315x1. Then I'll put on my belt and sleeves and do my work sets with 335-375.

If I'm going for a max, then I'll squat 315 without sleeves or belt for a single, then put on the sleeves and belt for 365, then attempt whatever max for which I'm aiming.

The idea is to get the nervous system primed for a heavy effort.

Warmth comes from the sleeves more effectively than it could ever come from "warming up"; Prep for heavy comes from trying a heavy weight for a single which won't exhaust me.

[Kyle Aaron]

Speaking as someone in his late 30s who came back to lifting after more than a decade away, and who has ITB issues (common in ex-Army)... before doing any gym work, I did pushups, situps, squats and inverted rows using my bodyweight only, working up to 30+ of each, then going for 3 sets of 20.

Only when I could do all three sets of 20 for all four exercises did I feel ready to get under the iron.

I still do 3x20 of each these on my non-gym days. No knee problems in lifting. Go back problems, but that's another story ;)

[misspelledgeoff]

i picked up a pair of neoprene sleeves and squated yesterday. wow! what a world of difference.

[Dragar]

Apologies for slight thread necromancy

I've been having the same pains exactly as the OP for a while now, self-diagnosed as quad tendonitis and confirmed by my physio. I realised the form issue and corrected it, feeling less stress on the knees while lifting, but the pain in general life persisted, particularly when standing up after sitting down

I found the wide range of solutions online that result in having no idea what to do, and was uncertain if training through it was a good idea or not, so went to my physio, who seems better than most - played sport at elite level and supports national teams, big believer in compound lifts for functional strength.

He has me working them through squats and extensions, but with minimal depth on squats and with no quad stretching allowed until the issue is resolved. His rationale is that the tendon needs to work to deal with the problem, but the insertion of the tendon into the patella shouldn't get flexed too much until it calms down.

The fact that he believes in working through the problem and has treated similar injuries (national volleyball team physio) gives me some hope he knows what he's doing, but the partial squats concern me from everything I've read on these forums and in SS. Does anyone have any guidance with respect to why the flexing of the insertion is a real or non-issue?

[PatrickBaldwin]

Apologies for slight thread necromancy

The fact that he believes in working through the problem and has treated similar injuries (national volleyball team physio) gives me some hope he knows what he's doing, but the partial squats concern me from everything I've read on these forums and in SS. Does anyone have any guidance with respect to why the flexing of the insertion is a real or non-issue?

Dragar,
I'd trust my physio. on this one. He's giving you sound advice. Limited ROM squats and leg extension are not the route to great strength, but your physio's goal in to rehab your quad tendonitis. With regard to flexing the quad tendon insertion issue, you are allowing the inflammation in the tendon to subside while avoiding deconditioning.

[Bergie]

50 yo 6' 200lb
I have been doing SS for a year.

I have found that a 5min ride on a stationary bike, at fairly brisk pace (~80 -90 rpm) makes a world of difference in the way my squats feel. I also do 25 body squats before beginning my weighted warm up sets.

[Dragar]

Dragar,
I'd trust my physio. on this one. He's giving you sound advice. Limited ROM squats and leg extension are not the route to great strength, but your physio's goal in to rehab your quad tendonitis. With regard to flexing the quad tendon insertion issue, you are allowing the inflammation in the tendon to subside while avoiding deconditioning.

Thanks Patrick

Is it unusual that even with the limited ROM squats and extensions only the kness get aggravated for a couple of days after a workout? If so doe sit likely mean I've been loading them too much or going through too great an ROM?