View Full Version : Squat programming for Kickboxing
12-05-2009, 05:20 AM
Hello Rip and folks
I am a 175cm, 75kg, 29yo male and do a form of competitive light contact kickboxing, also known as Savate or french boxing.
I did the SS programs(funny for a german to write that), means keethnab, SS1, Onus Wunsler(only short time) and since I am back on strength training in September, after a basic reset last month caused by stucking in general, the PPST novice program.
I think the PPST is good because it includes more upper body work which should help me with the basic upper body movements since they are weak compared to BS/DL.
As time went by I progressed nicely, competing in spring at 69kg and in summer at 72kg. My Backsquat was 60kg last year and is now at 112,5kg.
As it gets harder to do my 3x5 BS I start thinking about switching to a intermediate squat programming.
Thing is that I do not want to gain more weight because I want to stay in my current weight class(-75kg), because of my height. A second goal is to become faster, quicker ergo more powerful.
I read in PPST that those who are not after increasing muscular bodyweight should stay away from higher volumes, what I understand as 5x5(+) done with heavy weights. Also it is written that those who want to train for power should go for 5 to 10 sets with 1-5 reps, with weights light enough to move fast.
THis causes me of thinking about a programming like that:
Su - BS 5x5x60-75% (done as fast as possible with short and controlled rest periods, < 1min, similar to the speedsets)
Tu - Frontsquat 3x3
Th - BS 1 heavy set of 5
The other lifts will stay at novice programming as already discussed in other threads of the forum.
So what do you guys think about a program like that?
A thankful cheers for your opinion!
12-13-2009, 11:54 AM
no one´s an idea?
Lower your volume, increase your intensity. Try 3x3 3-4 times a week with a light day on the second consecutive workout. Your weight gain will be mostly affected by what and how much you eat, which will make huge jumps in your squat tricky if you have weight class restrictions. I'd train my squat up, gaining the appropriate weight, then cut back down while maintaining my strength with a conditioning oriented maintanance program. good luck!
12-13-2009, 03:24 PM
Just because the squats are getting hard does not mean you are ready for intermediate programming. Stay on the novice path as long as you can. A 250 lb squat is not an indication that you need to move to something more complicated.
I can appreciate that you want to hold your weight constant, but 165 lbs is not very heavy for someone of your height. In fact, it is quite underweight. You will need to determine what makes you better at your sport. Is it strength? If so, get strong and put on the necessary weight.
12-13-2009, 08:32 PM
A couple of years ago I was almost exactly the same height and weight as you are with almost exactly the same squat (I'm still almost exactly the same height). I didn't know what a Rippetoe was back then and went on the volume/intensity/frequency insanity known as the Smolov Base Phase because I knew Pavel, but not SS or anything Rip-esque. I tapered with daily squat practice after my week off and test and ended up adding 70 lbs to my squat in just under two months. I think I put on three pounds of fat and muscle in that time.
Of course, then I stalled for several months. I basically crammed several months of gains into two months, but then I needed a long time to recover. (Edit: I probably would have been much better off letting the gains come over a few months with a novice progression.)
My point is that you can be a lot stronger with your dimensions and only a couple more pounds of muscle. I upped my squat another 60 lbs this year and am now just outside of the 75 kg class (squeezing back in is proving to be too hard this latest time). I wouldn't fear a little volume and muscle gain if I were you. I bet you could add over 100 lbs on your squat easy and still cut water weight to 75 kg for matches.
And who knows? Maybe you'd be a MUCH better fighter if you were much stronger in a higher weight class. Maybe.
12-20-2009, 01:48 PM
You guys are right: A 250lbs Squat is not a direct indicator for changing programming. But I feel stalling coming cause I start missing reps and so cannot increase the weight every Workout. That is why I am asking in advance for next year.
Thing is that we do fencing with our feet and do much more footwork than in regular Kickboxing, MMA, boxing etc. and that is very taxing for legs Hips etc. So squatting is for me the best thing I can do, even if I do not have to be strong for the sport. If I would have to choose only one I´d take the low bar BS.
My bw is another thing. But I have no problem to cut some water weight. Cut the carbs for to or three days one week before a fight always helped me and left enough time to reload carbs before competition.
Rip outlines in PPST as I remember that the intermediate trainee can or should choose a sport for which he can do a little specialisation of the strength protocol. He suggests that for the most skill based sports not much has to be changed from the beginner protocol, especially in excercises.
He also writes that that one who is interested in good strength/BW ration should stay away from volume. But I do not understand what that means in figures?
I do not want to try out too much. That is why I am asking what you do think of the program I made? Especially about the 5x5 speed sets, because it differs from the Simmons Model but uses basically the same method.
12-20-2009, 02:06 PM
You may want to check out the Dragondoor site or some of the fighter-based strength-training sites.
Powerlifter Jack Reape once wrote, "5x5 just barely touches the gas pedal for growth." Volume means 10 sets of 5 with ~80%.
Why not the usual bodybuilders 3-4 sets of 8-12? Because that requires a drop in 1RM percentage to around 50%. This means a reduction in tension and a different training effect. You'll grow the sarcoplasmic energy systems in your muscles, not the contractile tissue that lots of volume with a higher percentage of 1RM would cause. So up the weight, keep the reps low and get the volume in by doing multiple sets with heavy weight instead of higher reps with light weight.
If you're one of those people who dread getting bigger and who just wants to maximize the ability of your existing muscle mass to generate tension (i.e., get as strong as you can at your current weight), then cut the volume to almost nothing, but up the frequency to several times per week. This is the idea behind the suggested programming in Pavel Tsatsouline's Power to the People. Pavel caters to "soldiers, fighters, law enforcement and other hard-living comrades" who don't want to get powerlifter or football-player big and strong, but who want to stay lean and still hit hard while balancing other physical qualities (like endurance). To this end, you do a couple sets of five per day, five days a week. Trains your nervous system and existing mass to contract harder, but avoids the volume required for size gains and leaves you fresh to train your sport hard.
12-21-2009, 04:19 AM
you really helped me. You know I do not want to overcomplicate it, but I always tend to do so.
That´s why I was asking for "Volume"-Definition. But Gary, you outlined good for me what is meant by it.
Bodybuilding style does not interest me. Sry but most of the guys suck using a Squat rack for BBCurls. I always get big eye looks when they see me squatting my 115kg, I do not know, it is a mixture of respect and "he is insane". Some also hate me for blocking the look in the mirror.
For now I still do a novice type program increasing squats one time a week and that is fine.
I will check out the recommended book on google and if I like it I´ll have a christmas present.
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