squat fail with only squat stands

[Toadthewetsprocket]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to SS, carry on a few months on it and I still have some time to go before I break the untrained barrier (as per the PP strength standards).

My question is, how do you fail 'relatively safe' a squat with only squat stands. So far I've learned to fail it 'relatively safe' when I'm at the bottom, I drop the bar backwards without a problem. The problem for me comes when I've already managed to pull up but I lose balance.

Does anyone has experience on this? videos would be nice? I guess what you have to do is make the bar pass over your head, but rather quickly. I almost did it the other day, but out of need, as a reflex. The problem is the bar still rested for a (very) short time over my neck.

Thank you in advance, and happy holidays,

Toad,

More details:

I'm using high bar style, squat stands and bumper plates.

I'm 29, 56kg. 5X3 PR SQ 65kg. 5PR DL 77.5kg. Never trained before.

[gman]

That is a very poor guess. If you get stuck, the last thing you want to do is try to then press the bar back over your head while simultaneously dropping down. What if you miss, where does that leave the bar? Sitting on top of your head while your face makes contact with the ground. If you fail, the bar always goes backwards (behind you) while you hopefully go forward. Try searching youtube for videos. You could always buy or make a pair of sawhorses as well, but realize it is not an ideal solution.

[Raskolnikov]

Forgive me, but I'm not sure I follow. Are you asking how to bail after you've completed a rep (i.e., after you've stood up)? In any case, ditching a bar while using high bar is pretty easy. And if you've figured out how to do it in the hole, you should be able to do it from any position.

[Toadthewetsprocket]

@Raskolnikov:

I'm trying to bail out while I'm still standing up, raising, but losing balance. Right before a completed rep. My back/shoulders can't hold the weight and I feel falling foward. I give maybe one or two steps forward.

[Toadthewetsprocket]

@gman: I wish I coud let the bar fallwards but by this point the weight on the bar has made me bend forward. My idea is not to press the bar, but simply bend quickly, sort of and let the weight fall freely, maybe push it slightly. As you say, I imagine the worst scenario as falling with my forehead against the floor (floor for olympic WL).

[gman]

@gman: I wish I coud let the bar fallwards but by this point the weight on the bar has made me bend forward. My idea is not to press the bar, but simply bend quickly, sort of and let the weight fall freely, maybe push it slightly. As you say, I imagine the worst scenario as falling with my forehead against the floor (floor for olympic WL).

Yes, but try to visualize a loaded bar rolling over your cervical spine and the back part of your head. That would be pretty bad too, huh?

Have you given any thought to trying to squat in the low bar position?

[Toadthewetsprocket]

@gman: sure, how do you fail a low bar squat? I find it even harder, I haven't been able to do drop the bar as I do on the hb versoin.

but the way regarding videos I found this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MsRGLEt1Fg , In the first trythe lifter brings the weight forward and moves the head back in a flash. I thought that this was more or less known by other lifters and maybe they could share their experience on this.

[Raskolnikov]

@Raskolnikov:

I'm trying to bail out while I'm still standing up, raising, but losing balance. Right before a completed rep. My back/shoulders can't hold the weight and I feel falling foward. I give maybe one or two steps forward.


Gotcha. There's really no safe way to bail in that case. You need to address form. It sounds like you are GMing the weight and coming on to your toes. Especially with a high bar squat, you need to keep your chest up. If the weight is too much for you to maintain a proper back angle coming out of the hole, then it's too much for you to squat.

[tnumrych]

@gman: sure, how do you fail a low bar squat? I find it even harder, I haven't been able to do drop the bar as I do on the hb versoin.

but the way regarding videos I found this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MsRGLEt1Fg , In the first trythe lifter brings the weight forward and moves the head back in a flash. I thought that this was more or less known by other lifters and maybe they could share their experience on this.

Most amazing thing about that miss in the video is that the weight he missed in the first two attempts, he made in his third.

[Raskolnikov]

@gman: sure, how do you fail a low bar squat? I find it even harder, I haven't been able to do drop the bar as I do on the hb versoin.

but the way regarding videos I found this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MsRGLEt1Fg , In the first trythe lifter brings the weight forward and moves the head back in a flash. I thought that this was more or less known by other lifters and maybe they could share their experience on this.

That's not something you plan on doing -- that's an "oh shit" moment. He had no choice. If you are doing that regularly, in training, there's definitely something wrong. Again, you need to address why you are losing the weight forward. There's no reason it should be happening.

[Toadthewetsprocket]

Thanks Raskolnikov. Sounds like a fair answer. My form deteriorates usually on the third set. I guess I have to be more conservative considering I don't have spotters nor a rack. If my form starts deteriorating I should call it a fail.

Thanks Gman for your contribution as well.

[Tom Campitelli]

I agree with Raskolnikov here. There is no way that you should "fail" on a squat when you are at the top. If so, there are other problems you need to address. In general, you will fail most often just after coming out of the hole. At that point, you either need to ditch the bar backwards, or you need a set of safety pillars. Ironmind has some (http://ironmind-store.com/Pillars-of-Power153-II-Spotter-Racks/productinfo/1227/), but they are pricey. You could probably get a local welder to build you something stronger and cheaper.

[banthafodder]

That reminds me, I need to head to the hardware store; you don't even need a welder for those. With the demise of Geocities, the link for the old page with the "pillars of poverty" is gone, but basically it's just a 1.5" plumbing pipe version of what's at the Ironmind link above (i.e., it looks like a tall version of the DIY PVC parallettes you can find around the web).

The images are gone, but archive.org has it at http://web.archive.org/web/20080708124654/http://www.geocities.com/fightraining/safety.html -- the guy loaded them up with 655 lbs and said they were still rock solid.

[Notorious]

Buy some sawhorses.

[RobertFontaine]

A perfectly good question and a bunch of uninformed answers.
Failing happens regularily

1) Always push the bar back. DO NOT try to get it over your head or you may die.
2) If you don't have spotters ALWAYS work in a rack.
3) If you don't listen to rule 2 (and even if you do) practice bailling out with lighter weight until you are comfortable with it. It's an important skill and learning it while you are failing on a 1 rep max is not a bright idea.

... OK, you have the damn bar on your back and you're stuck at the bottom.

Push the bar backwards with your back and yourself forward and out of the way. As long as you get your tail bone out of the way you are a winner.

In pretty much every other position the movement is the same only when it's higher watch out for the bar bouncing. (Get all the way out of the way and keep moving).

Again practice on the platform with your bumpers at multiple heights until you feel comfortable bailing out. Once you're comfortable with the skill the fear of failing drops dramatically.

[Raskolnikov]

A perfectly good question and a bunch of uninformed answers.
Failing happens regularily




Did you actually read his question and the subsequent conversation? He knows how to bail the bar off his back when he fails. What he's asking is for a safe way to bail the bar forward over his head, presumably when he GMs the weight to such a degree that the bar actually roles forward onto his neck.

[RobertFontaine]

1) Don't do that.