From Chucks to Do-Win's

[ZKP]

So I received a pair of Do-Win's for Jesus' Birthday... I'm typically of the "Don't fix it if it's not broke" school of thought and I have no complaints with the Chuck Taylors' but I just had to know. The elevated heel does feel different and considering my workout ended an hour ago I'm not sure if I'll be sore "differently" but we'll see. I also intended to go relatively light and kind of break into them but that didn't really happen. 3x3 at 70% quickly turned into 3x3 at 90% plus six doubles at 85% immediately after ....We'll see if there's and new and unique soreness because that ought to do it. Any experience's with the transition from a flat heel would be appreciated. Thanks, Zac

[Mr.City]

What model did you get?

[stronger]

you're going to feel a pretty good stretch in your hamstrings when you squat. That's about it, as far as I remember

[Nauticus]

It seems deadlifting feels a bit better in chucks than my WLing shoes.

[blowdpanis]

My experience pulling in weightlifting shoes, and meticulously recording stuff, is sort of the opposite of what Rip indicates. He seems to believe there will be a comparatively forward knee angle in the WL shoes, and due to the way physics work, presumably a decreased hip angle.

In actually recording this, the extra height of the heel seems to have the opposite effect, i.e. you become slightly more horizontal. It seems the heel is making the pull basically a deadlift from a slight deficit, and if you logic that out, it would produce a more horizontal back angle to keep balance over midfoot. I suppose it's possible this would also result in a little more knee angle, too, but the general effect seems to be a more horizontal pull.

I realize this might be sacrilege, but I have filmed this repeatedly, using the Rippetoe deadlift setup verbatim. I suppose it might be a consequence of enforcing the "bar literally over midfoot" rule, perhaps you'd more naturally self-select something a bit forward of midfoot in a heel, since a heel might technically displace your COG forward relative to what you'd be flat footed. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[Rootskier]

It seems deadlifting feels a bit better in chucks than my WLing shoes.

I think you will find more people DL in flats or barefoot than in WL shoes.

[Gary Gibson]

My experience pulling in weightlifting shoes, and meticulously recording stuff, is sort of the opposite of what Rip indicates. He seems to believe there will be a comparatively forward knee angle in the WL shoes, and due to the way physics work, presumably a decreased hip angle.

In actually recording this, the extra height of the heel seems to have the opposite effect, i.e. you become slightly more horizontal. It seems the heel is making the pull basically a deadlift from a slight deficit, and if you logic that out, it would produce a more horizontal back angle to keep balance over midfoot. I suppose it's possible this would also result in a little more knee angle, too, but the general effect seems to be a more horizontal pull.

I realize this might be sacrilege, but I have filmed this repeatedly, using the Rippetoe deadlift setup verbatim. I suppose it might be a consequence of enforcing the "bar literally over midfoot" rule, perhaps you'd more naturally self-select something a bit forward of midfoot in a heel, since a heel might technically displace your COG forward relative to what you'd be flat footed. Your mileage may vary, of course.

This is a valid analysis and conclusion. It may depend on the ol' individual anthropometry. I'm sure the raised heel has some mitigating effect on the fact that you are just really doing deadlifts from a deficit...but in the end what really matters is that the bar won't leave the floor till it's under the scapulae (this gets truer and truer as the bar represents a greater percentage of the mass in the lifter-barbell system and the center of mass of the system more and more means the center of mass of the barbell). My experience lines up with yours; a deficit means a flatter back despite the angle of my foot.

[GdMisfits]

also, with a heel, you have to move the weight a longer distance on a DL. duh.

[ZKP]

I've always deadlifted in my socks or in some gutted chucks(only a few mm of sole, if that) and will continue to do so, so that's not gonna be an issue. They are Rogue Do-wins, this year's new ones. I wear an 11 in chucks a, 11.5 ee in my red wings and the do-win 11's fit great. It's just gonna be a matter of getting used to the heel. With my heel's up a bit I can hit parallel a little easier and It's gonna take some time to get used to the new mechanics. I found myself going lower than I'm accustomed too, good times.

[Gary Gibson]

Wanted to add:

My footwear will change as I progress through a cycle. I use what I wear on my feet as very thin boards. I might start off in my squat shoes with their 1" heel, then go to my Chucks with their 1/2", then to my deadlift 1/16" thick deadlift slippers as I move through the cycle and the weight gets heavier.

Or I might not.

But why not just use boards of greater thickness?

I've found that extremes of extension of the pull are too different from the main movement to carry over as well as one might hope. Extended pulls DO help the grip and train some serious strength-endurance in the grip that makes itself very obvious and very useful in the lift from standard height (better than heavy rack pulls).

[METAL VIPER]

I'm looking forward to the first squat with my shoes. I got last year's model that should be coming in tomorrow. Not sure if I want to keep those or exchange them for the new .5" heel that is supposed to be coming out in a few weeks. Decisions, decisions.

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

I wish Rogue would hurry up and get the new shoes in. I'm ordering a pair the day they are available. I've been squatting barefoot in my basement for the last 18 months and finally decided to start wearing shoes.

[ZKP]

The Do-Wins felt better again today. Strapping them the fuck down hard makes a difference. First time I felt like i was sliding down my shoe a bit... I love the cool old man style horizontal velcro....

[METAL VIPER]

Well I tried them today. It was light squat day, so I didn't really get to go full blown, but they felt good; albeit I didn't notice a huge difference. Hopefully it makes depth easier to get to, but I'm going to have to definitely give it some more time to get used to

[Sal Webber]

One thing I've learned is that when you get heavy with a heel I need to make sure I have the shoe as tight as I can stand it. I have the VS shoe with a big heel and I found that anything over ~260 would push me forward in the shoe and I would end up getting on my toes and more vertical. In Chuck's, I never had this problem. I guess those metatarsal straps are there for a reason :) Ever since I've been cinching things down nice and tight, I've had no problems.