Stalling on Squats and Presses and Deadlift

[homerj742]

Hey all, I've been doing Starting strength original novice program for about 2-3 months now.

I'm 5''10 179lbs. 5-6k calories a day (including GOMAD).

Squat - 230lbs 3x5
Bench - 175lbs 3x5
Deadlift - 295lbs 1x4
Press - 115lbs 3x5 (stalled at 120)
PowerClean - 100lbs 5x3

My squat stalled at 230 earlier this week, but was able to get a full 3x5 on my next session. Any advice? or just keep on going as I have been.

The presses stalled twice at 120lbs, I've reset the weights. Would microloading be a good idea?

Deadlift stalled at 295 - this was more of a grip issue than anything else. Any suggestions on this?

Do you guys think I'd benefit by changing my routine to the "advanced novice" program?

[strengthstarter]

My squat stalled at 230 earlier this week, but was able to get a full 3x5 on my next session. Any advice? or just keep on going as I have been.

I believe Rip suggests somewhere (in the book?) that if you miss a set, try again up to three times before resetting. Depending on how this goes, you may want to consider moving up smaller increments so you are not constantly getting stuck.


The presses stalled twice at 120lbs, I've reset the weights. Would microloading be a good idea?

Yes, but microloading probably won't be necessary until you get close to the weight you reset. The idea of the reset is to give yourself some additional recovery time.


Deadlift stalled at 295 - this was more of a grip issue than anything else. Any suggestions on this?

Have you tried the alternate grip?


Do you guys think I'd benefit by changing my routine to the "advanced novice" program?
It sounds like you have some mileage to go on your current program.

[homerj742]

Thanks for your reply, I will most definitely take all of your advice.

I've never tried the alternate grip for deadlifts. Perhaps I will read up on it and give it a try.

Thank you again!

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

What was your starting weight 2-3 months ago? You should have put on quite a bit of weight with all of those calories.

Are you adding weight to the bar every workout? For the squat, if you add 5 pounds per workout that is 15 pounds per week. That means you would have added 180 pounds to your squat after 12 weeks, or 120 pounds in 8 weeks.

I only ask because I don't think you should be stalling at 230.

I would also avoid the mixed grip until your deadlift gets much higher, and then only use it on your heaviest sets.

[homerj742]

IWLFOD,

I was an idiot and began with the "strong-lifts" method of starting with just the bar.
I've increased weights every workout by 5lbs. So yes, 15lbs a week on the squats. I now know that was a waste of time.

Agreed that 230 is way to early to be stalling. My starting weight was 154lbs and I was NOT doing GOMAD and eating only 3K calories.

I soon read all of starting strength and practical programming. and after reading this board, (when it was still on Strength mill) I started doing GOMAD and eating 5-6k calories.

[strengthstarter]

I would also avoid the mixed grip until your deadlift gets much higher, and then only use it on your heaviest sets.
Just curious, what would you suggest he do, if not the alternate grip?

On a 1x5 program, I did regular grip until about 300 and had to start doing alternate grip for the last 2 reps (one each way). At 320, I was lucky to get one rep without using the alternate grip, so now I use it for the heaviest set.

[nisora33]

Just curious, what would you suggest he do, if not the alternate grip?

On a 1x5 program, I did regular grip until about 300 and had to start doing alternate grip for the last 2 reps (one each way). At 320, I was lucky to get one rep without using the alternate grip, so now I use it for the heaviest set.

There is no particular weight at which you should start using the alternate grip. This is highly individual, with some needing to start using it sooner rather than later. "Use it post-300 lbs." is an arbitrary recommendation. Do not use it any sooner than you have to, at most.

-Stacey

[strengthstarter]

There is no particular weight at which you should start using the alternate grip. This is highly individual, with some needing to start using it sooner rather than later. "Use it post-300 lbs." is an arbitrary recommendation. Do not use it any sooner than you have to, at most.
I didn't mean to suggest he wait until the weight *I* had to start using it. I just wanted to give my experience for how I incorporated it into my program, which is to put off using it as much as possible by using it for only some of my reps at first, until I had to switch all the way over for my work set.

On a kind of unrelated topic that comes back to DL grip strength and may be helpful to the OP as well, what other ways have you guys procrastinated using the alternate grip? I find that if failing on a set on deadlift, even if due to grip strength, really screws up the remainer of my workout. It's like my body has learned it can't do the weight and just refuses no matter what I change. So its a bit of a gamble to use regular grip because if I don't make it, I'll probably have to stop.

One idea I was considering was to do a back-off set somewhere between my last w/u set and my working set using regular grip. But I'm sensitive to overtraining deadlift, especially since I have some lower back issues that come and go.

[nisora33]

I didn't mean to suggest he wait until the weight *I* had to start using it. I just wanted to give my experience for how I incorporated it into my program, which is to put off using it as much as possible by using it for only some of my reps at first, until I had to switch all the way over for my work set.



Sorry, strengthstarter, I quoted the wrong person. And I just pulled 300 lbs. out of my ass as an example.

-s.

[nisora33]

Just curious, what would you suggest he do, if not the alternate grip?

If he's not already using the hook grip, then he could try it.

-s.

[homerj742]

I've actually used the hook grip for deadlifts early on in my progress. But I've read else where that it doesn't improve grip strength (which makes sense).

Damnit, I want to be able to crush a tennis ball in my hand.

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

Just curious, what would you suggest he do, if not the alternate grip?

On a 1x5 program, I did regular grip until about 300 and had to start doing alternate grip for the last 2 reps (one each way). At 320, I was lucky to get one rep without using the alternate grip, so now I use it for the heaviest set.

I'm actually in the same boat. At 300 the limiting factor is my grip. I realized that I had been doing a dyslexic version of the hook grip for a while. I was wrapping my thumb over my middle finger instead of vice versa. I tried to do a proper hook grip, and this just felt unnatural since I wasn't used to it.

I read on the forums about squeezing the shit out of the bar and I tried that with a normal double-overhand grip and it worked! I was able to pull 315 without a problem. I also added rack pulls where I just try and hold the weight as long as possible.

In my case, I felt I had a lot of room for improvement on my grip. I watched a video of one of the posters here pulling 315 like it was nothing. It might have been nisora33, but I can't remember. Anyways seeing this guy do it gave me the push to force myself to do it.

My personal goals are to avoid the mixed grip at all costs, and still be able to pull 500. I don't know if I can do it or not, and I probably shouldn't inject my goals as advice to others.

[homerj742]

I'm actually in the same boat. At 300 the limiting factor is my grip. I realized that I had been doing a dyslexic version of the hook grip for a while. I was wrapping my thumb over my middle finger instead of vice versa. I tried to do a proper hook grip, and this just felt unnatural since I wasn't used to it.

I read on the forums about squeezing the shit out of the bar and I tried that with a normal double-overhand grip and it worked! I was able to pull 315 without a problem. I also added rack pulls where I just try and hold the weight as long as possible.

In my case, I felt I had a lot of room for improvement on my grip. I watched a video of one of the posters here pulling 315 like it was nothing. It might have been nisora33, but I can't remember. Anyways seeing this guy do it gave me the push to force myself to do it.

My personal goals are to avoid the mixed grip at all costs, and still be able to pull 500. I don't know if I can do it or not, and I probably shouldn't inject my goals as advice to others.

You're not injecting your goals on to me, but I do share your desire to use overhand grip as much as possible. You say you tried rack pulls to improve grip strength? How would one go about adding this to their program?

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

Rack pulls: I may not be using the proper terminology, but in my rack, I have the bar set at just above my knees. I load the weights here, and just pull the bar off the pins and hold it for as long as possible. I think a true rack pull might have the bar set a little lower, but this is where I do it for convienence.

By the way, you put on a good amount of weight, and since you started with an empty bar your progress is about right. I think you have a lot more squat in you before you stall though. Maybe there is a technique issue? Are getting the stretch reflex at the bottom of the squat? My first round through I wasn't, and it makes a big difference. Same thing with shoving your knees out to recruit the adductors.

[homerj742]

It might be a technique issue. I felt it was very strong early on, but it might be falling apart. I will see if I can take a video of my next session.

[homerj742]

Well, I was able to get 235 3x5 today. The first set was VERY difficult, so I rested 10 mins b/w the last 2 sets. The last rep of each set was HARD. I took my time during warm up to make sure my form wasn't too screwed it. It turned out I was leaning forward way too much. I backed it up a bit and I feel I performed much better.

Question, my arms felt very fatigued/sore after my first workset of squats. Is this normal? or should I take a closer look at my grip. (Note that my shoulder flexibility isn't so great, but I try to keep my arms as close together as possible and keep the elbows up).

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

I just started having problems with shoulder/upper arm pain. I started to doing shoulder dislocates, and that is helping with both the pain and improving flexibility.

Do not allow your wrists to bear the weight. Do not pull the bar too tight towards your back. Both of these may irritate your arms down the road. I'm trying to work through this mistake now, and it hurting my progress!

Congrats on hitting 235!

[OMG]

Drink more milk, it will cure everything!

[homerj742]

haha, I ain't drinking more than a gallon a day!

ILFOD,

You're right, it's probably a shoulder flexibility issue. I've lost some flexibility as I've been avoiding shoulder dislocates and such. thanks!

[homerj742]

So worked on stretching my shoulders. Also, I didn't "grip" the bar when I lifted it on my back this morning. More or less "rested" my palms on it as I created "the bridge" under my scappula. Little to NO arm soreness/pain right now.

Thanks again for the help!

Now I wish that guy wouldn't spot my squat, and my by "spot" I mean "help".

[misspelledgeoff]

homer, you've gained 25 pounds in the last few months which is good. But to be honest, 180 is still kinda skinniesh for a 5'10" guy. I would think you could gain another 35+ pounds and not be "fat".

you say you are eating 5-6K, but maybe you should re-evaluate your calorie math and your protein intake. Also make sure you don't have other stuff going on (eg, excessive metcons) that are soaking up calories and hurting your recovery.

[homerj742]

I'm still gaining strength and weight steadily, so I'm just going to keep on doing what I'm doing.


(just without the "spotters" ugh!!!)