Battered Left Elbow after Squats

[Sami]

I may left elbow is getting very painful during squats. I've searched to find tips already. I've widened my grip quite a lot; hands on the rings of the bar. I'm trying to actively keep my elbows up. It's done this before when I was last at this weight. I did a reset and now it's doing it again. Last session was fine, only a little sore. The only difference was I forgot my neoprene sleeve this session, and it's very sore right now. I can barely curl my arm and I can't push off with it that much.

Here are my squat videos:

Set 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd3_6p-sYB8)
Set 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvw4JvVqrtA)

I think I see why my left elbow is getting raped. Does anyone else see anything suspect? I want to see if I'm seeing the same thing.

[Paul Sousa]

Not sure if it's what you are seeing, but it looks like your arms are moving alot during the set. One thing I noticed is it doesn't look like you are really holding the bar, more just resting the bottom of your palms on it. Possibly the bar is a bit unstable causing it to wiggle some, and causing your arms to move? Just guessing really.

[Sami]

Not sure if it's what you are seeing, but it looks like your arms are moving alot during the set. One thing I noticed is it doesn't look like you are really holding the bar, more just resting the bottom of your palms on it. Possibly the bar is a bit unstable causing it to wiggle some, and causing your arms to move? Just guessing really.

Yeah, I think the moving arms is part of it, but to me there is something specific that it looks like I'm doing. I want to see if anyone else sees it and it's not just my imagination.

And no, I'm not holding the bar at all. My thumbs are over the bar and the base of my palms are on the bar. I'm sure this is textbook SS, but I may need to re-read the chapter to see if I'm doing something wrong.

Another issue I realised I was doing was I perpetually having the bar about 1-2 cm (at least) to the RIGHT. After my training partners realised they now shift ME over to the right so that the bar is centered. But this still hasn't fixed the issue.

It's ALWAYS the fucking left elbow. Always.

[nisora33]

Sami, I see nothing wrong with your elbow position here. As for the way your palms are pressed against the bar: I've seen a lot of folks, most notably Uncle Rippie himself in his now famous squat video, doing exactly the same thing. Go and watch it and see for yourself.

But I'm afraid I'll be of little help suggesting alternative methods of getting the bar where you want it, or rehabbing this particular type of injury, because both of my elbows, AND my shoulders--in spite of efforts to increase flexibility and rehab around the shoulder girdle--always hurt me once I got to a certain weight, same as you. I eventually switched to high-bar squats due to months of trying and trying to make the low-bar position work for me. FWIW I had Rip himself evaluate the way I was supporting the bar in person at one of his certs, along with the other coaches at my platform, and my grip and bar placement appeared fine for the low-bar squat.

-Stacey

[KONG]

My left elbow is still trying to heal from this injury. I carry the bar pretty much the same way that you carry it. When I got up to 365X5X3, my left elbow hated my guts and would make the rest of my arm hurt along for the ride...which would throw off my entire session...except for Deadlifts ironically.
I'm squatting with a safety squat bar for now..which pretty much takes the arms out of it but its like a high bar in that it sits right on your neck and you can't use as much weight which is very frustrating to me. I have been able to make progress with it though but I'd rather be low bar squatting.
I think the key to avoiding this in the future would be to stretch out the shoulders so tha tyou can get your elbows up much higher. That's what I was told and I won't know if it works until I switch back to low bar squatting again.

[Phil Stevens]

You need to address the bar. Your simply letting it rest on you. You need to grab the bar thing white knuckle it and wrap that damn thing around you which will further activate the upper back including flexing your lats and scapular retraction. If need be throw on some elbow sleeves to get the elbows warmed up. and ice them after if your getting a constant ache in them. most people get an ache due to again letting the bar push them around and not activating enough musculature. Tightness is stability and safety as well as strength.

[Sami]

Thanks Stacey.

To me, it looks like I'm pushing my left palm down when I'm on the ascent. It looks like my left elbow is tensing and shaking around more than the right. I might have some other imbalance that's causing me to push down on the left. Is the left side of the bar higher than the right? I think I'll record square on from the back.

Perhaps I'll try to narrow my grip again. With the wider grip, pressing down may putting more of a torsional stress on the elbow.

I've got a NSAID topical cream that I'll smear it on there and remember my neoprene next time.

[IWillLiveFreeOrDie]

I'm having a similar issue though I don't think the pain originates in my elbow. It feels more like the bottom of the medial deltoid, and radiates down towards my elbow.

Phil, I used to grip the bar really tight, and thought that may have been the cause of my problems. This pain has screwed my last 3 weeks of progress up. I'm doing shoulder dislocates to try and stretch my shoulders out. Have you tried that Sami?

[Paul Sousa]

You need to address the bar. Your simply letting it rest on you. You need to grab the bar thing white knuckle it and wrap that damn thing around you which will further activate the upper back including flexing your lats and scapular retraction. most people get an ache due to again letting the bar push them around and not activating enough musculature. Tightness is stability and safety as well as strength.

This is what I was getting after, I just didn't word it well. I know there are people who use your grip with success, but to me it seems the lack of tension in your forearm due to not gripping the bar tightly, combined with the movement of the bar, could be the culprit. I use a thumbless grip as well, as prescribed in SS, but I squeeze the bar tight and pretty much press the bar into my back so it doesn't move. Could be worth a shot.

[nisora33]

Here's Rip demonstrating the same set-up as Sami:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4296172056_c25241c709_o.jpg

Now, his is not the only way, hence Phil's suggestion that you actually GRIP the bar. You have to ask yourself at this point would you be better served addressing the bar differently. If you absolutely can't get the SS way of placing the bar to work for you without pain, then it would be stupid not to alter how you address the bar as Phil's suggesting.

Also, Wendler et al. claim that gripping the bar tightly in your fist will make the rest of your body tight by extension.

-S.

[Paul Sousa]

I agree, and by no means did I intend to say the way Rip grips (and teaches to grip) the bar is wrong, if that is how it came across. I think the main issue is the instability of the bar and hopefully there is some advice in the thread that helps fix the issue.

Sami - Perhaps it could be as simple as how much pressure you are putting on the bar with your palms. Are they just on the bar, or are you pushing the bar into your back with your palms?

[Sami]

Well well well, lookie here:

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=154&stc=1&d=1264193063

[Sami]

Thanks for the tips guys, I will certainly play around further with my gripping style. I can see how a thumbless grip might be causing the problem. In an effort to raise my elbows, it is causing my palms to push down into the bar and this might be wreaking havoc. If I grip the bar, when I lift my elbows and grip the hell out of the bar, maybe this will happen less since. I dunno. I'll play around with it.

It isn't toooooo bad during the set. It's a distraction but I seem to be able to work through it. But immediately after the set, I can't do anything with my left arm. Watching me lift the big plates to put them away was comical with one arm.

I had to be very careful when pressing, to control the eccentric part and not come down too fast, but the concentric wasn't too bad, though I was pressing light today.

[tennisgod]

Interesting how this is so common... also interesting how (so far) its always the left arm. I've got it on my left arm now and I'm left-handed so that rules out the weaker-arm-theory.
Please don't take this as a criticism, because it absolutely isn't, but your arms look thinner than the rest of your body in comparison. Is it possible that the higher the weight, the more arm strength is important to support such weight? When you look at the photo of Rip, his forearms look big.
So would it be possible that additional arm/forearm work would help this?

Regarding your grip, here's a link to Matt Kroc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDQT_zbJ5Yg. His grip is very wide and (it seems) very loose, but he's using a squat-specialty bar which, I think, would be perfect to fix this sort of problem since it lessens the pressure on the arms. Also, his arms/forearms are super strong, as well.

[nisora33]

Is it possible that the higher the weight, the more arm strength is important to support such weight? When you look at the photo of Rip, his forearms look big.


Good observation. Another reason to get huge and powerful.

-S.

[Sami]

Interesting how this is so common... also interesting how (so far) its always the left arm. I've got it on my left arm now and I'm left-handed so that rules out the weaker-arm-theory.
Please don't take this as a criticism, because it absolutely isn't, but your arms look thinner than the rest of your body in comparison. Is it possible that the higher the weight, the more arm strength is important to support such weight? When you look at the photo of Rip, his forearms look big.
So would it be possible that additional arm/forearm work would help this?

Regarding your grip, here's a link to Matt Kroc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDQT_zbJ5Yg. His grip is very wide and (it seems) very loose, but he's using a squat-specialty bar which, I think, would be perfect to fix this sort of problem since it lessens the pressure on the arms. Also, his arms/forearms are super strong, as well.

Yeah I was planning on running a couple of Smolov cycles, one for bicep curls and the other for tricep kickbacks. But you didn't have to be so mean about it.

[Sami]

Well, I've started to program in chins/pullups and dips now. Though, when my elbow does this I can't do any of that stuff.

[TomC]

Not surprisingly, I think Phil may be on to something here. I don't think wrapping your thumbs around the bar is going to help. However, getting a couple of other fingers over the top of the bar is a good idea. You may already be doing this. I cannot tell from the video. He also talks about not letting the bar boss you around and I am going to expand upon that.

When you squat, there is a lack of tightness throughout the movement. Your feet are shifting around and you actually had to move your foot to recover during the first rep of your first set. Your toes are wiggling and you are shifting side to side between reps. You have a tendency to descend very quickly and then bounce out out of the bottom. This can be okay, but I think you are going too fast and adding extra looseness into the system. Watch your feet closely as you squat and you'll see the weight briefly transfer to your toes and/or shift inward on the way up. Your knees occasionally shoot back immediately on the bounce as well as coming in. Watching your feet again, you pronate and supinate to try and counter this. This whole chain of events is unbalancing you enough that I think it is part of your elbow problem.

As you ascend, you look up, which is going to extend your cervical and upper thoracic spine. By this time, the bar is ahead of your midfoot and you are working hard to correct it. This is going to fucking murder your elbows as you push down hard on the bar as your spine extends.

So, it seems like I am ragging on your squat here, but that is not my intent. You have a collection of minor issues that are coming together to beat the hell out of your arms. Here are my recommendations:

Get some proper lifting shoes. The Chucks are not supportive enough for you. The raised wooden heel and metatarsal straps on lifting shoes are made for dudes like you.
Get tighter and go a little slower, especially at the bottom.
You may need a touch of additional forward knee travel at the beginning of the squat to keep you in balance. I would bet the lifting shoes would clear this up on their own.
Your knees are not badly collapsing in, but the standard knees out cue will help you, especially on your later reps as fatigue sets in. Once again, proper footwear may solve this.
Some shifting around is inevitable under heavy weights, but you need to minimize it. Get tight.


That ends my novel on your squat. Your problem is not your elbows or your flexibility so much as it is a combination of everything else. You may need to rest a bit and ice and then really focus on form for a few sessions to clean up these little issues. Tight = good.

[Sami]

Not surprisingly, I think Phil may be on to something here. I don't think wrapping your thumbs around the bar is going to help. However, getting a couple of other fingers over the top of the bar is a good idea. You may already be doing this. I cannot tell from the video. He also talks about not letting the bar boss you around and I am going to expand upon that.

Thanks for that Tom, way beyond the call of duty there. I appreciate it.

All of that sounds like good stuff. The shoes may be even more important than you realise; I have completely fallen arches. They're as flat as duck's feet. Obviously not helped by Chuck's. Shoes will come eventually; just not right now unfortunately.

For now, I'll focus on these points and also do some proper warm ups before squatting. Right now I'm not doing any other warmup apart from light squats. In the beginning I don't think this was such an issue since 1) weight was lighter and 2) it was warmer then. Now weights are heavier and the colder weather means I need to do some light rowing for a few minutes before hand and maybe some shoulder/elbow stretching.

Thanks again guys, I've got some stuff to work on now but I'll update this with news.

[metermanja]

Sami,

i had exactly the same problem a few days ago.
The solution was a wider grip and lots of flexibility stretches to the shoulder and chest. The pain lasted 3-4 training sessions and the arms became completely unusable for teh duration of the workout once it started. There is no working through this pain. The pain usually would disappear in a hour after the workout.
After 4 session of gradually lessening pain in the left arm, i had around a week of pain free squats and the same thing started with the right elbow. I am right handed. I concluded that it is not only a grip issue but also one to do with the strength in the connecting tissue. Your kinematic chain employed for squats probably overtook those of the elbow in terms of strength. Give the painful elbow a few training sessions and they will catch up in strength.

it might be worthwhile to compare the weights at which a person had such elbow pains and then compare his/ her presses.

For example - the elbow pains started for me when i was squatting 235 and my press was a measly 120 and Bench press was around 175 i think. If your pains started at a higher squat weight & your presses are correspondingly higher, I will take it as proof of my hypothesis.

[Sami]

Sami,

i had exactly the same problem a few days ago.
The solution was a wider grip and lots of flexibility stretches to the shoulder and chest. The pain lasted 3-4 training sessions and the arms became completely unusable for teh duration of the workout once it started. There is no working through this pain. The pain usually would disappear in a hour after the workout.
After 4 session of gradually lessening pain in the left arm, i had around a week of pain free squats and the same thing started with the right elbow. I am right handed. I concluded that it is not only a grip issue but also one to do with the strength in the connecting tissue. Your kinematic chain employed for squats probably overtook those of the elbow in terms of strength. Give the painful elbow a few training sessions and they will catch up in strength.

it might be worthwhile to compare the weights at which a person had such elbow pains and then compare his/ her presses.

For example - the elbow pains started for me when i was squatting 235 and my press was a measly 120 and Bench press was around 175 i think. If your pains started at a higher squat weight & your presses are correspondingly higher, I will take it as proof of my hypothesis.

This elbow pain has happened twice, both times at this same weight, the 265-270lbs range, and I've yet to progress higher than that yet, though not due to stalling. My presses are much worse than yours. I've stalled my OHP numerous times under 100lbs and my bench is comfortably at 160 for sets and rising.

[Nauticus]

Widening the grip helps. A tight upper back is nice, but a wider grip is stable enough to be worth compensating for if you're hurting bad. It actually helped me get the bar lower and got rid of the pain.

[Sami]

Reading SS:BBT again, it talks about grip for the squat. Some people with shoulder inflexibility issues will always set the bar with an asymmetrical placement across the back, even when the grip is symmetrical. This sounds like me. My partners are now always having to shift me along to the side to get it centred. But I always keep my hands in the same symmetrical place on the bar.

If I've got flexibility issues (in the shoulders and elbows), and I'm forcing the left arm to be in a position that I'm not naturally getting into myself, and it's causing some binding to happen in the elbow, this may be the cause of the pain. Since my partners have only recently been adjusting my placement, I may have been doing asymmetrically loaded squats for most of my training.

One thing I can try is to make sure I'm centred (using my partner) and then just let my hands grip the bar in the most comfortable natural position they can, even if they aren't 100% symmetrical. The weight will be loaded symmetrically, but my hands won't. This doesn't really sound like the best option.

Widening my grip symmetrically should have the same effect since now both hands are now wide enough to not cause any binding in the elbow (hopefully).

Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to work I go...

[homerj742]

Sami,

i had exactly the same problem a few days ago.
The solution was a wider grip and lots of flexibility stretches to the shoulder and chest. The pain lasted 3-4 training sessions and the arms became completely unusable for teh duration of the workout once it started. There is no working through this pain. The pain usually would disappear in a hour after the workout.
After 4 session of gradually lessening pain in the left arm, i had around a week of pain free squats and the same thing started with the right elbow. I am right handed. I concluded that it is not only a grip issue but also one to do with the strength in the connecting tissue. Your kinematic chain employed for squats probably overtook those of the elbow in terms of strength. Give the painful elbow a few training sessions and they will catch up in strength.

it might be worthwhile to compare the weights at which a person had such elbow pains and then compare his/ her presses.

For example - the elbow pains started for me when i was squatting 235 and my press was a measly 120 and Bench press was around 175 i think. If your pains started at a higher squat weight & your presses are correspondingly higher, I will take it as proof of my hypothesis.

The exact same thing happened to me at the same weights. I will be working on my shoulder flexibility now!

[62jeroen]

Sami, what I see in the video clearly is that when you get up from the bottom to the top, you push very hard your elbow down. Some of the posters already have given some clues for the causes.

But it is so bad, I can hardly watch it. Poor, poor elbow. During the first rep it is not so bad, but as you get tired, you push more and more the elbow down. It can also ruin you shoulder and lead to biceps tendinitis. It had happened to me also, I also have shoulder flexibility issues (being 47 years old). It is a strange habit, that when you try to get up, the tendency exists to push down the elbow as a reaction. It will crack your elbow.

I myself was able to solve the issue using a wider and looser grip, in stead of a more tight one, concentrating very hard to actively raise the elbow with the movement in stead of pushing it against the movement. If done correctly, it will provide you also with a good muscle platform on which the bar rests.

[Sami]

Sami, what I see in the video clearly is that when you get up from the bottom to the top, you push very hard your elbow down. Some of the posters already have given some clues for the causes.

But it is so bad, I can hardly watch it. Poor, poor elbow. During the first rep it is not so bad, but as you get tired, you push more and more the elbow down. It can also ruin you shoulder and lead to biceps tendinitis. It had happened to me also, I also have shoulder flexibility issues (being 47 years old). It is a strange habit, that when you try to get up, the tendency exists to push down the elbow as a reaction. It will crack your elbow.

I myself was able to solve the issue using a wider and looser grip, in stead of a more tight one, concentrating very hard to actively raise the elbow with the movement in stead of pushing it against the movement. If done correctly, it will provide you also with a good muscle platform on which the bar rests.

Thanks.

I think you're right. I really can see that left elbow being pulled down, especially through the sticking point. The right one doesn't seem to do it. It's as if I'm trying to pullup my way up. Strange that the right doesn't do it.

And now that you mention shoulder issues, I can feel something in my left shoulder now too. Not hurting much, but a dull sort of... not quite 'ache' but something.


I played around a little today. I did a proper warm up, 5 minutes doing light rowing. Then I foam rolled the hell out of my arms, from every angle I could think of. I started my squat warmup with a WIDE grip HIGH bar squat, gradually narrowing my hands and lowering the bar with each set.

I used a little wider grip for my work sets, but still with thumbs over, though my hands weren't quite so for over the top of the bar. I tried a few heavy-ish reps with a thumbed grip, but it hurt my wrists.

One mistake I made was trying a thumbs-under grip on my last work set, which I think threw me off my groove and caused me to fail my last rep. My elbow still hurt on this last set, but nothing like it did last session.

Over all, it was an elbow improvement today. Still sore a little bit after sets, but not that dead-arm feeling that lasted for HOURS last time. I was fine for benching after, and deadlifting later.

I need to find a balance with loosening my elbow during the squat, yet still maintaining overall tightness.

[stronger]

I use the nongrip grip (the one Rip uses) because it makes the bar a lot more secure since there is a flatter surface to put it on. I have absolutely zero problems with the bar moving around and it is an extremely tight grip. When I grip the bar it rests in a precarious position on my back. This is what works for me.

I experienced elbow soreness a few weeks ago, and my solution was to widen the grip of the offending arm so that it was at the end of the collar, with the other arm in a normal grip position and to squat as usual. This happened on my light day so a perfect grip wasn't completely necessary. If your grip happens to hurt on a heavy squat day, you can do your warmups like this and go back to a proper grip on work sets.

I iced my elbow after I lifted and took ibuprofen. The problem is gone now.

[Sami]

Yeah, the thumbed grip wasn't nice. It didn't sit right and hurt my wrists, and my elbow still hurt anyway. I still think 62jeroen is right, I'm pulling my elbow down hard during the sticking point. I squat again tomorrow so I'll see how it goes.

[homerj742]

I need to find a balance with loosening my elbow during the squat, yet still maintaining overall tightness.


This is the problem I think I'm having. T

his morning was excruciating!


Warm ups went fine, but after the first workset (255lbs), after racking the bar, the pain surged through my arms. I waited about 7 mins for my next set, but could only do 1 rep as the pain was distracting enough that the bar started rolling around my back as I wasn't maintaining tightness.

I started taking ibuprofen, and doing shoulder dislocates. Hopefully in a few weeks things will get better. Until then, I fear my squat programming will be a mess.

[Sami]

Missed today's session.
http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=11462&page=28

[homerj742]

Does anyone have any recommendations for elbow or wrist sleeves? I think the added support might assist in my squat progress while I increase my shoulder mobility.

[Sami]

I've got 3mm neoprene elbow sleeves. They help keep things warm and the last time I forgot to wear them was the last time my elbows really hurt. I don't use any wrist sleeves.

[homerj742]

Thanks for the input Sami.

I think I'm going to look into getting some elbow wraps or sleeves for some support while I work on flexibility.

[homerj742]

I've been learning to tighten up my back despite my arms not bing closer together on the bar. I've also rested my palms on the bar (my hands are not wrapped around the bar).
The squat sessions are going quite well, although I still feel i'm not reaching full depth on all my reps.

As for the pain in my arms, it's still there, but not as bad. I think since the muscles are already "inflamed" it will take some time before it's fully healed.

I've also been doing my bench and Presses before my squats. If I do squats first, my arms are too sore to complete a full workset of bench presses or OHP. This is just temporary until I 1) gain more shoulder flexibility 2) the inflammation goes down

[Sami]

Oh yeah, forgot to update this.

Well, I've basically just been focusing on not pulling that left elbow down during the sticking part of the lift. Hard to do when I'm by myself, as no one is there to cue me. But still not bad.

I'm using DeFranco's upperbody stretching/foam rolling routine and I think it's helping. I use a wide grip high-bar for warmups and a tight low bar for work sets and always trying to remember not to pull down with my left arm. If I remember to PUSH into my back and keep the elbows up, that is fine.

So far so good. I still feel it a little at the end of the set, but it's usually fine after a few minutes; probably about 85-90% normal.

[homerj742]

Sami,

I feel it at th end of the set too, I think when I re-rack the bar, I feel the "vibratation" through my arms, and they start to get inflammed.

I'm doing a few sets of shoulder dislocates and door stretches every other day. Hopefully it will be better in a few weeks time.

[Tim]

Don't know how I missed this thread; exactly the same boat here. As soon as squats get to about 95kg/210lbs, elbow pain. Will try some of the advice.

[TTT]

This thread has been very helpful.
my left elbow has been hurting a little and this week, after squats, it was painful enough that I couldn't press (overhead or bench), but I got a PR for deads.. go figure.

I think I am also pressing down when I get to harder reps.
I will try to keep on top of this.

I will also give gripping the bar a little wider a go.
and gripping the bar hard.

will try all recommendations so far.

After this mornings 3 sets, I struggled to unload the bar.
took some nurofen, strapped an icepack to my elbow and drove to work.
it feels fine now.

Monday I might start with bench just incase I don't get to train it again.. :)

If anyone is interested, DOGGCRAPP also had a "injury proof your shoulders" type movement.

http://www.divxturka.net/e-books-amp-tutorials/212489-doggcrapp-how-cure-shoulder-problems.html

This has helped with shoulder flexibility for me in the past.
If you don't have a broomstick, you can use a towel.

[Tim]

Saw an osteopath, he thinks that it's just a case of connective tissue not keeping up with increases in muscle strength, combined with the nasty angle the biceps have to work on and really long arms. Will see how today's session goes, but he recommended dropping the weight for a while, which I don't really want to do.

[KONG]

I dropped low bar squats for three weeks. I used the safety squat bar and made progress there instead. I'm back to low bar squats and virtually no pain. I am working on adjusting my grip to a position that puts very little stress on the elbows.

You can drop the low bar squats. I know mentally it was a really hard thing to do for me but I did it and now I feel better. I did keep squatting though and I really worked hard on my shoulder flexibility with stretching and massage.

Good luck.

[tennisgod]

Saw an osteopath, he thinks that it's just a case of connective tissue not keeping up with increases in muscle strength, combined with the nasty angle the biceps have to work on and really long arms. Will see how today's session goes, but he recommended dropping the weight for a while, which I don't really want to do.

Interesting... would this mean that chins and bicep curls would help?

It's still strange that it seems to hit everyone's left elbow. Does anyone have it on the right arm?

[Sami]

Well, my pain has pretty much gone away. 62jeroen was absolutely right. Look back at my video and you can see me trying to pull the bar down with my left arm; you can see the left elbow flex, tighten up and pull downward. I focused on not doing this, and I'm now into PR territory (285lbs) and almost no elbow pain.

I did do some shoulder/arm mobility drills before each session; that may or may it have helped. I don't anymore and I still don't get any pain.

Check your videos guys and watch those elbows.

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Thanks for posting this Sami,

I have exactly the same problem (left elbow for me too).
I'll make a mental effort to keep both elbows still when I squat, and hopefully this will improve things.
As a side note: while my elbow hurt, I found that pull-ups (prone grip) made it worse, while chin-ups (supine grip) were ok.

IPB

[Tim]

These issues are still ongoing for me unfortunately, and last time I tried to work up to a work set my shoulder went crazy as well. Not ideal.

Any thoughts on doing a combination of front squats and GHD situps in lieu of low bar back squats for a bit, until healed?

[TartanEagle]

Battered elbow club, I have found that moving the bar up about a half inch, has really lessed the pain. Not high bar position, but a little higher than my typical low bar position has been (perhaps it was too low). There are lot of suggestions in this thread, but this is what has worked for me.

[homerj742]

I saw a chiropractor yesterday. He said the brachii in my bicep was inflamed, probably due to not holding bar correctly on my back, which is a result of shoulder inflexibility.

He told me to visit him a few more times, to help with the inflammation.

In the mean time, I'm using elbow sleeves during my training sessions (and of course correct form). This has helped TREMENDOUSLY. Virtually no pain after my workouts.

I'm also working on my shoulder flexibility.

Thinking of getting some type of deep tissue/mf massage.

[Raf]

Another member of the battered elbow crew, thanks for posting this Sami. For me it's the right elbow and I'm fairly certain that when I get up to a heavy weight (for me) I pull down as well.

Same diagnosis as homer above. I've been told by the doc to take 4 weeks off.

[Sami]

I can no longer arm wrestle with my left arm. :(

Had I ever arm wrestled with my left arm, this would probably bother me.

Actually, it has made my left arm weaker in certain movements and angles (arm wrestling type movements). It's painful to pull on the right elbow sleeve and it hurts when winding wrist wraps.

But squats are okay, and I'm sure since I stopped pulling with that arm, it has improved. Though it will be difficult to fully heal whilst still squatting.

[TartanEagle]

My left arm pain is almost completely gone, and I have not stopped squatting. These are the things that I have done, in the order that I think has made the most difference:
- Raised the bar about a half inch to an inch (hard for me to tell exactly). I'm not in the high bar position where the bar sits on top of my traps, but it its higher than when I started. I may have started too low on my back. I have long torso, so I squat in a more upright position than some people, so a low position would be worse for me.
- Focus on staying tight in the upper body, moving my hands in as far as I can (I actually have very flexible shoulders), and not pulling down as Sami described.
- I have a bar with no center knurling (yuck). This causes slippage. Do not buy a bar with no center knurl if you plan to squat. I have wrapped hockey tape around the center to create a grip surface where the knurl should be. This is working very well so far.
- Elbow sleeves.

This thread has really helped me, and I hope that the residual discomfort that creeps in toward the end of my last couple of workouts will be gone soon.

[TTT]

strangely enough, a CLOSER grip on squats has fixed my elbow issue.
bringing my hands in closer has made the bar sit on a better platform and due to it being tighter to get in place, the arms don't move at all, neither does the bar.

[Howwl]

I hope Im not too late to the discussion to offer a suggestion but:

I had this constant pain in which felt like my left elbow, I read online that it was more than likely biceps tendonitis which is quite common to people back squatting after reading some powerlifting forums. I used to use a full grip like as if I was to bench, and a very narrow hand position which was well within the notches on the bar which after observation found that it was the narrow hand position that was causing this pain coupled with the tight grip.

I simply widened my hands and changed my grip, but this didnt fix it as the problem was already there but it took longer for the problem to get painful during training.

Strangely enough I got so pissed at the problem that I emptied 1/4 of a can of deep heat spray onto the area in a fit of rage. The pain disappeared and hasnt been back since, I still squat with the amended hand position and grip.

[LondonTiger]

aarrrggghhh words can't explain how frustrated I am right now, fucked up my elbow just after beating my PR.. havin't been able to squat for a whole week. Went to the shops today to get some neropant elbow sleeves, and they were absolutely useless.

Can bench a little and deadlift.. but can't squat.. bench and deadlifts were absolutely appaling. I'm hoping it's just because of my elbow.

I've had this problem before. a week rest sorted things out.

Tomorrow, I'm going to go back to basics and sort out the bar placement and hand psition over and over again, and then mark them down on the barbell (fruits of a home gym)..

it's so frustrating because I was doing bill starr's rehab protocol for my lower back, and fixed my lower back real good, then I went on to my ususal workouts for 1 day, broke my squat PR, and fucked up my elbow.

[Sami]

Have you read the whole thread?

[LondonTiger]

yup, just venting a lil, read most of the helpful advice.

[gzt]

Try high bar for a little while. You'll be able to squat, it's not the same as low bar, but it'll definitely keep you going. You'll have to deload a little and experiment. High bar does not put stress on your elbow.

[Aslin]

I've done the same shit last night, it hurts in both elbows, been hurting for a couple of weeks now but pain was manageable, hurt real bad last night after squatting though.

Can I make the improvements outlined in this thread and carry on with all my lifts as usual next week? Or would a week off of everything be helpful?

[Sami]

I've done the same shit last night, it hurts in both elbows, been hurting for a couple of weeks now but pain was manageable, hurt real bad last night after squatting though.

Can I make the improvements outlined in this thread and carry on with all my lifts as usual next week? Or would a week off of everything be helpful?

You could take a week off, and it's very likely the pain will go away. The problem with that is you'll have to take a week off. Bad times.

Don't stop lifting. Find out what was causing the pain, and correct it. For me, it was pulling my elbow down hard when things got difficult. I kept lifting, but temporarily changed form so less stress was put on my elbows to allow it time to heal. So I would do wide grip, high bar squats for about a week. I'd also do lots of shoulder stretches and warmups before squatting. After a week, I would warm up with wide-grip, high-bar, and gradually narrow the grip and gradually lower the bar down my back.

But all the time, I was focusing on preventing the form error that caused it. Once I fixed it, I continued on pain free and have since added 20kg to my squat since then.

[Aslin]

Thanks for replying, sorry if I missed this, but what sort of shoulder work were you doing to warm up? does this also prepare the elbows for work too?

for my upper body warmup i would just generally do a couple of sets of pressups.

[Sami]

I used this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgxr6xAB5ZM

[LondonTiger]

for me the problem was not flexibility, I'm very flexible, can touch my face with my toes, and scrub all areas of my back with my hands. Can palm the floor with straight legs etc.. ..please no autofellatio jokes..

Looking back, I remember both times when I injured my elbow, it happened when i didn't grip the bar hard enough, and the barbell slid down my back between 0.5-1 inch, from the start low-back squat position.

First time it happened it was understandable, it was the first time and I was unaware of the risk, 2nd time it happend was in my home gym, the barbell does not have any knurling on the middle part of the bar what so ever [so it's slippery], and I will be fixing that problem this evening. **insert evil smiley**

[Sami]

Yeah, flexibility wasn't the issue for me either (though I can't do all that ^^^ stuff). I'm flexible enough to squat. It was just while I was trying to get it to heal. It meant I could get into position more easily and get my elbows higher.

Once the pain went away, I did DeFranco's routine less and less.

[OITW]

Sami, late hit since this thread got resurrected. If you haven't been doing what TomC told you, shame on you. He nailed why you were shoving your arm under the bar. If you solved what he saw, you should be well on the way to monster by now.

I hit a similar problem at the same weight, but in my right elbow (I'm right-handed). I found myself trying to lift the bar with the arms, and it doesn't work. Now, on the drive up if I slow down I make myself push my elbows up and back. It keeps me from pushing, keeps the back (the lever) tight and generates that tiny bit of additional momentum to keep from stalling out.

I also noted in the old vids that your hands were turned in and fists clenched. Yep, looked exactly like Rip's grip in the photo, but compare to those in SS. The palm is flat across the bar in those pics. YMMV, I keep my palms flat, hands cross the bar where the digits join the palm, and I aim for my ring finger to be on the outer PL ring, between the two large knurled areas. I have arms like a chimpanzee, so it can be done.

Damn, you make me want to go lift, and I have 275 more pages of resumes to read.

[Sami]

Sami, late hit since this thread got resurrected. If you haven't been doing what TomC told you, shame on you. He nailed why you were shoving your arm under the bar. If you solved what he saw, you should be well on the way to monster by now.

I hit a similar problem at the same weight, but in my right elbow (I'm right-handed). I found myself trying to lift the bar with the arms, and it doesn't work. Now, on the drive up if I slow down I make myself push my elbows up and back. It keeps me from pushing, keeps the back (the lever) tight and generates that tiny bit of additional momentum to keep from stalling out.

I also noted in the old vids that your hands were turned in and fists clenched. Yep, looked exactly like Rip's grip in the photo, but compare to those in SS. The palm is flat across the bar in those pics. YMMV, I keep my palms flat, hands cross the bar where the digits join the palm, and I aim for my ring finger to be on the outer PL ring, between the two large knurled areas. I have arms like a chimpanzee, so it can be done.

Damn, you make me want to go lift, and I have 275 more pages of resumes to read.

It was this post that cured everything for me: http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showpost.php?p=95434&postcount=25 from 62jeroen. He was exactly right and the very next session I focused on not pulling the bar down, and it was pain free right away.

TomC was right too, but not specifically about the elbow. I've also taken his advice on board, unfortunately no shoes yet, but soon. Very soon.

Anyway, I've long since resolved my elbow issue. Pain free-ish since end of January. :)

[zephed56]

Interesting... would this mean that chins and bicep curls would help?

Yes.

[Sami]

I just wanted to come back to this thread, as the issue returned for me, and I've seen it pop up for a few people recently too.

I had a break for a about 7-8 weeks. Lost some weight, restarted from 137.5kg work sets down to 90kg work sets. Bad times.

Anyway, all was fine until I got to about 115kg (5kg jumps). Both elbows started niggling. Also at this time, I started doing chins. I soon realised that chins were very much hurting my elbows, and during squats the pain was crippling. My arms were shaking in pain for the entire session.

I stopped chinning and started doing heavy dumbbell curls, which did actually help, but would still feel it throughout the day, but squats were still hurting, and getting worse. Got to 122.5kg and the pain was very bad.

So I revisited a video which I used previously. Not sure how much it helped at the time, as I was doing other things wrong too. But this time I was getting it in both elbows.

I started doing this again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgxr6xAB5ZM

So the last three sessions, elbows were getting worse. After doing this warmup for about 5-10 minutes, absolutely ZERO elbow pain. Nothing. At all.

My shoulders were too stiff, and were putting my elbows in a bind. Loosened them up so that there was no impingement and completely pain free.

So try it if you're still getting pain.

[mikednj]

great thread, i just starting getting this pain from squatting when it hit ~220. I ALWAYS got this pain from ring dips though. Definitely a shoulder thing.

I'm going to use all the advice and info in this thread and see where it takes me.

[eltonno]

I started doing this again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgxr6xAB5ZM



Definitely some really good stuff. Did some of the stretches shown in the video and felt instant pain relief.

[LeonidasfromSparta]

I'm joining the "fucked elbow after squats" club. In the past two weeks, my right elbow has been sore after squats. So last time I tried Defranco's stretching routine, and widened my grip which helped. I'll try it again and hope that things will improve. The elbow, made me stall on the bench and press for some workouts :(.