View Full Version : Program critque
02-01-2010, 01:24 PM
I wanted to see if anyone would like to comment on a program I am considering switching to in a few weeks here. Been lifting for a few years now, been to Rip's Barbell cert, and used SS a good bit of that time as some background info.
P Sn 5x3
BS build to heavy 1,2, or 3 RM
Rack Jerk 4x2
P Clean 5x3
I am considering switching the heavy BS on friday with the P clean, so I clean first then Squat last but am still debating this.
My goal is to have a Texas method like squat progression, and advanced novice progression in bench, press, jerk, DL, P clean and P snatch. Basically increasing linearly on all those but with a bit more rest since I am only doing each once a week.
My concern is that as it gets heavy I will be doing my more technical lifts last on Mon and Fri which is alright at first, but as that weight gets heavy fatigue could be a problem. At the same time though my primary goal is to increase my Strength, and primarily my squat, and so I have prioritized that lift first.
As far as the pressing movements are concerned I am getting close to ending my novice progression on both bench and press and wanted to get a bit more recovery for both, plus I freaking love the Jerk since it is the one lift I am built for reasonably well (Long powerful legs, femurs in particular, Short little t-rex arms). So I thought Jerk on friday would be good active rest for both bench and press but also indulge my enjoyment of the movement :)
Comments and Ideas welcome
02-01-2010, 01:54 PM
If you are going for the Texas method on the squat you will probably want more volume on Monday and may want to consider doing light back squats instead of front squats on Wednesday.
02-01-2010, 06:31 PM
I think Tom might be right, but if you're just coming out of the novice stage I don't think the lack of squat volume should hurt you THAT much. As far as the technical lifts on Friday, I think I've seen people use fast lifts before squats as sort of a "warmup." It won't be a great warmup since it'll hurt your ability to hit PRs, but I get the impression you care more about your PRs in technical movements than you do about your PRs in the squat, so let it suffer.
I'm no expert though. Someone more knowledgeable will probably chime in.
Given that he seems to have some O-lifting ideas in his head, front squatting is a decent idea. I don't think jerks offer that much arm stimulation if you're doing them right, but I'm no expert.
02-03-2010, 11:49 AM
Thank you everyone for the comments!
The reason I only have 3 sets instead of 5 for my volume day is that with my long ass femurs squatting hits me very hard. I wanted to start with just 3 sets because I am unsure if I could get through 5 and thought the volume would be enough, if I stall I will probably increase the volume with a reset, but for now I wanted to just see how 3 would go.
I have front squats vs light back squats because I feel my anterior chain is my weak link and having FS in help me to balance that out. Also I enjoy Oly lifting a lot and so while I am still low bar back squatting it is nice to get some FS work in.
As for my goals, my number one priority is improving my Strength, primarily my squat strength. That is why I put my oly lifts, even though more technical, at the end of the workouts. I just will have to temper myself because my ability to make novice gains on the oly lifts is small and thus they will get heavy quickly and as they get heavy doing them at the end will be more and more problematic. I guess just keeping them lighter and having lots of resets will be what I have to do in order to keep them as secondary.
And I know Jerks are not a big stress on the arms, but the arms are still working, and I thought that would work well for an active rest day...
Thank you again for the comments, keep them coming! :) I will probably be starting this in a week so I will find out what works well and what doesn't at that point
02-03-2010, 12:14 PM
You might consider changing something up with the jerks. Jerks allow you to lift a heavier load, but you are doing doubles and presumably don't have jerk boxes, and the eccentric between reps on jerk doubles is really unpleasant - lowering a heavy load back down to the rack isn't fun. You might consider doing twice as many singles with half the rest time, or doing push presses to lower the load and make it a bit more controllable on the eccentric. And if you want to clean and jerk on the same day, why not just do clean & jerks, take every rep from the ground to overhead?
The only other suggestion I would have is that the DL on Wednesday might make it too taxing of a day to be a real TM recovery day, so if you are feeling too tired going into Friday, that's where to look to change something.
Other than that, it looks like a good plan to me.
02-04-2010, 12:05 PM
Alex is probably better suited to answering this than me, since he does more Oly lifting, but here's how I'd lay this out based on your goals.
P Sn 5x3 (or another rep scheme, possibly 8x2)
Possible ab work, if needed
(P)C&J 10x2 (sets across), on the minute, possibly 12-15 min depending on how you feel
BS build to heavy 3-5RM (the most important lift of your week right here)
PC to warmup DL (work up to 90-95+% of your best PC)
Power snatches are (relatively) light and shouldn't take too much out of you, but they are technical. Do them first, do them properly.
Squat for 5 sets for a couple weeks and give Monday's volume a legit shot, then reduce the sets as the weight adds up if your recovery feels weak. Go for 3-5RM for awhile before you hit the 1RMs on Fridays.
Deads are so hard on the CNS that I would do them on Friday to give yourself an extra day of rest. They WILL impact your Friday squat workouts if done on Wed in my experience.
If you're gonna milk some linear gains on press/bench, do it right! Alternate 'em every workout for awhile before you *need* TM style work on them.
The (P)C&J fits your requirements of having some jerks in there. Doing them on the minute is fun and gives you a little metcon, too. Nice active work for a Wednesday.
I tossed in chins on Friday but they'd work on Wed, too. I'd put them in somewhere, because you don't want to be like me and avoid them and completely suck at them down the road. I'd suggest pullups or rows for everyone at least once a week. I've seen too many people on these programs ignore upper back work and create imbalances and injuries.
02-04-2010, 12:17 PM
I've recently came up with a powerlifting focused routine with the olympic lifts in them.
You can use this as a base, but I have had exceptional recovery for my entire lifting career so I know that I can handle this.
Snatch, Clean, Squat
Bench + triceps
Deadlift, fsq, jerk, pullups
Squat, Bench, shoulder accessory
Rep ranges are not set in stone as I will be using more advanced training methods which call for varying rep/set schemes planned out only a week in advance.
02-05-2010, 01:12 PM
Great input guys, thanks a bunch for the responses!!
I had not considered DL messing up recovery nor the problem of lowering Jerks for a second rep.
Jacob I like a lot of the changes you made. I was originally planning on having ab work and chins in the program, just didn't written the assistance exercise stuff up. The only thing I may tinker with still is press/bench. Maybe have push press for 4x3 on friday? The reason being that I am currently doing a linear progression alternating press and bench, but I am getting near my previous PRs and can feel a stall coming on in the next couple weeks. That said I don't think I need to switch to TM yet for either (im not sure how I would program for both in a TM style anyways). So I figured just doing each once a week with micro loading would allow a bit better recovery for increased linear gains once I cannot sustain 3 days a week alternating. This is my thought process at least :)
And why are the Squats on Friday the most important? I thought the volume work sets on Monday were the most important because that is the stress that drives the adaption?
Thanks again for all the responses, it is nice to get the opinions of those much more knowledgeable than myself :)
02-05-2010, 02:16 PM
* Maybe have push press for 4x3 on friday?
* And why are the Squats on Friday the most important? I thought the volume work sets on Monday were the most important because that is the stress that drives the adaption?
* Thanks again for all the responses, it is nice to get the opinions of those much more knowledgeable than myself :)
No problem, man. A couple quick comments:
* I could absolutely support push press in this program. 4 sets is an unusual number, but I'd go by feel and aim for 3-6 sets. PP will benefit both other pressing exercises, and is a good, manly thing to do. Use a fat bar if you can. You could use ramping sets if you wanted. I wouldn't try tooooo hard to gain linearly on these - you might be able to gain even faster at first, and then that might taper off. Keep them as an assistance for your press/bench, not as a main lift. They WILL be hard on Fridays in this layout, but if you can keep them there, that's good because it'll give you more time to recover over the weekend.
* Glad you picked up on that comment. I really do think your Friday squat set will be the most important part of your week based on your goals. Why? Because it's freaking hard. Real freaking hard. You will have more physical and mental barriers to break down on this set than any of the others. It is relatively easy to grind through 3x5 (5x5 can be another story...), but venturing into the unknown with a weight on your back you've never lifted will make you stronger both physically and mentally. This is why I suggest 5RM's. 1RM isn't enough torture. Squats are mostly mental. The first rule of squatting heavy is: squat heavy. Here's your chance. Kill it. Then figure out why you aren't doing 3x5 with the same weight.
* Again, no prob. I wouldn't say I'm more knowledgeable, but I've managed to find a few tricks here and there that have really helped me and a few of my friends that will listen. I have lots more to learn, but hopefully, those will come steadily. :)
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.1.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.