PC improvement??

[Gottatri2lift]

My PCs were not PC when I started. No second pull just a deadlift that kept going. I have dropped 30 pounds and tried to include the second pull. PLEASE TEAR INTO IT!

First PC a couple of weeks ago (not really PCs at all)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gtCCRbdmrU

This week where I attempted to include the second pull
set 1 at 135x3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afDNqQGsjmg
set 1 at 155x3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaj5jGephf4

[simonsky]

still no second pull man. you are strong for the weight that's why you can do some sort of a deadlift barbell catapult launch.

just keep watching youtube vids man, thats how i learned.

just think of the first pull as slow-slow-slow then when the bar reaches mid thigh think of boom!. that's my cue.

[Raskolnikov]

One of the reasons your second pull is lacking is that you open your hips up too early. You lift your chest as soon as the bar comes off the ground, which means your hamstrings have already shortened by the time you initiate the second pull and they aren't really able to contribute as much as they should (similar to why lifting your chest out of the hole during the squat kills hip drive).

The first pull is all about positioning: you want to get the bar from the floor to the "power position" right around mid-thigh (varies from person to person) without much, if any, change in back angle. In other words, you want to stay over the bar as long as possible (bar directly beneath your shoulder blades). Think of the first pull as all knee extension without any hip extension, just like a halting deadlift -- then, after the bar has passed the knees, think "jump!"

[Bloodninja666]

One of the reasons your second pull is lacking is that you open your hips up too early. You lift your chest as soon as the bar comes off the ground, which means your hamstrings have already shortened by the time you initiate the second pull and they aren't really able to contribute as much as they should (similar to why lifting your chest out of the hole during the squat kills hip drive).

The first pull is all about positioning: you want to get the bar from the floor to the "power position" right around mid-thigh (varies from person to person) without much, if any, change in back angle. In other words, you want to stay over the bar as long as possible (bar directly beneath your shoulder blades). Think of the first pull as all knee extension without any hip extension, just like a halting deadlift -- then, after the bar has passed the knees, think "jump!"

This is exactly right IMO.

On thing Op can keep in mind is thinking about driving his ass up during the first pull, rather than pulling with his arms.

[Tom Campitelli]

They look a bit better than they did last time, but I think you need to train the clean from the hang position first. You are still relying on your the momentum from your initial pull to get the bar up higher. Start with the bar at mid thigh, knees bent, and shoulders slightly in front of the bar. You will have no momentum off the floor to help you. Jump and rack. This is your clean. This is what you want to do every time

The Starting Strength DVD has a lot of different people doing cleans. It may be of help to you. Whatever videos you are watching, note what happens when the bar passes the knee. The knee rebends. This is important and largely missing in your cleans now.

[Raskolnikov]

The knee rebends. This is important and largely missing in your cleans now.

I agree with you, but this isn't something he should be actively cuing. The "double knee bend" happens naturally if the positioning is correct after the first pull. Trying to actively execute a double knee bend will just screw things up.

[Gottatri2lift]

THANK YOU ALL! I can't wait to nail this down. I will keep reviewing the SS DVD, and will keep trying.

TomC, Raskolnikov and Bloodninja666 thank you for critiquing and advice.

Simonsky - I like the deadlift barbell catapult launch term. Unfortunately true!

[Tom Campitelli]

I agree with you, but this isn't something he should be actively cuing. The "double knee bend" happens naturally if the positioning is correct after the first pull. Trying to actively execute a double knee bend will just screw things up.

I've heard this a number of times and it is far from universally accepted. Most of the time you don't cue the double knee bend because it happens automatically. This strikes me as a time when at least mentioning it is worthwhile.

[nisora33]

Start with the bar at mid thigh, knees bent, and shoulders slightly in front of the bar. You will have no momentum off the floor to help you. Jump and rack. This is your clean. This is what you want to do every time


Yes, yes and yes.

[grambo]

Dang you are strong.

Great posts above, listen to their advice, I would recommend working tall cleans/hang cleans, that way you can focus on being in the right position, over the bar, and explode the bar up. Sometimes I find it helps to do a few standing vertical jumps in my warm-up to get the explosive/vertical hips feeling.

[Raskolnikov]

I've heard this a number of times and it is far from universally accepted. Most of the time you don't cue the double knee bend because it happens automatically. This strikes me as a time when at least mentioning it is worthwhile.

Fair enough. I just went through a period where I made a conscious effort to perform a double knee bend and it just slowed me down. But it's worth mentioning, I agree -- I just didn't want the OP killin' himself trying to get the double knee bend down when it should happen naturally if he takes care of his positioning problem.