Valis
02-17-2010, 08:32 PM
This is my first time posting here... I'm here because I have questions that absolutely NO ONE on any other forum I've been to has been able to answer. I really hope someone from this site can break this losing streak.
1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834116 - this article states
that repeated bouts of exercise do not create more damage, AND do not
affect the recovery process.
First, if you can keep exercising but further damage doesn't happen,
is the workout still any good? Say I do bench press, 5 sets of 10
reps on Monday (bodybuiding). On Wednesday I shouldn't be able to
exasperate the damage any further (according to the study)... so would doing another 5 sets of 10 reps do any good whatsoever? Since the recovery process is not affected, does this mean nothing happens at all? Muscle growth wont happen?
3. http://www.springerlink.com/content/e8avf9ry0mtq2cae/ - this one
says that some type of protective mechanism prevents maximal strength
output.
Ok so back to that Monday workout - bench press, 5 sets of 10
reps. Would a powerlifting workout on Wednesday be any good? If the
power output is decreased, then the Law of Overload cannot be
achieved. I might be able to bench 150 kg for 3 reps (normally), but
if I'm only able to do 130 kg for 2 reps, (reduction of strength from protective mechanism) then my potential to recruit the motor units required for a maximal bench cannot be reached and, like I said, I cant reach overload - which is required to build strength.
BUT!
Since I cant do any further damage or affect the recovery process ANYWAY!...
...
does that mean I should go ahead with the powerlifting workout regardless? Or is it completely useless?
((Sorry, I know this is long, but bare with me just a bit longer...))
I got an email from Ken Nosaka (desperate for answers) and got the following:
================================
As you know, muscles become less susceptible to muscle damage with training (repeated bout effect). Thus, actual "muscle damage" does not occur so much in training (DOMS does not necessarily indicate muscle fiber damage).
Muscle hypertrophy is due to a balance between protein degradation and protein synthesis. Any workout increases protein degradation, and stimulate protein synthesis pathways.
If no rest between workouts, no time for protein synthesis, thus no hypertrophy. So, it is true that rest is important.
Mechanical stress is the key factor stimulating muscle hypertrophy genes, not damage.
Without any muscle damage, we can still give muscles good mechanical stress, resulting in hypertrophy.
I think that even muscles are not completely recovered from the previous workouts, if "overload" is given to the muscles, it could stimulate hypertrophy genes.
=================================
Ok now I'm completely friggen lost.
I thought muscle damage WAS ... protein degradation. Yea, sorry if that sounds stupid as hell.
My real question NOW is - what exactly IS protein degradation? I can find all sorts of articles TALKING about it. But what IS it? I mean we've already established that it may or may not have anything to do with actual muscle damage. So...
Is it when the protein from muscle cells somehow lose ... uh... protein? ..... how is this possible without damage?
Is it when some sort of mysterious protein reserve that I-have-no-idea-what-the-hell-I'm-talking-about-anymore gets "activated" and ... ok, starts some sort of weird protein synthesis thing?
I'm running out of forums to ask this on. Please let there be someone who knows the answer.
1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834116 - this article states
that repeated bouts of exercise do not create more damage, AND do not
affect the recovery process.
First, if you can keep exercising but further damage doesn't happen,
is the workout still any good? Say I do bench press, 5 sets of 10
reps on Monday (bodybuiding). On Wednesday I shouldn't be able to
exasperate the damage any further (according to the study)... so would doing another 5 sets of 10 reps do any good whatsoever? Since the recovery process is not affected, does this mean nothing happens at all? Muscle growth wont happen?
3. http://www.springerlink.com/content/e8avf9ry0mtq2cae/ - this one
says that some type of protective mechanism prevents maximal strength
output.
Ok so back to that Monday workout - bench press, 5 sets of 10
reps. Would a powerlifting workout on Wednesday be any good? If the
power output is decreased, then the Law of Overload cannot be
achieved. I might be able to bench 150 kg for 3 reps (normally), but
if I'm only able to do 130 kg for 2 reps, (reduction of strength from protective mechanism) then my potential to recruit the motor units required for a maximal bench cannot be reached and, like I said, I cant reach overload - which is required to build strength.
BUT!
Since I cant do any further damage or affect the recovery process ANYWAY!...
...
does that mean I should go ahead with the powerlifting workout regardless? Or is it completely useless?
((Sorry, I know this is long, but bare with me just a bit longer...))
I got an email from Ken Nosaka (desperate for answers) and got the following:
================================
As you know, muscles become less susceptible to muscle damage with training (repeated bout effect). Thus, actual "muscle damage" does not occur so much in training (DOMS does not necessarily indicate muscle fiber damage).
Muscle hypertrophy is due to a balance between protein degradation and protein synthesis. Any workout increases protein degradation, and stimulate protein synthesis pathways.
If no rest between workouts, no time for protein synthesis, thus no hypertrophy. So, it is true that rest is important.
Mechanical stress is the key factor stimulating muscle hypertrophy genes, not damage.
Without any muscle damage, we can still give muscles good mechanical stress, resulting in hypertrophy.
I think that even muscles are not completely recovered from the previous workouts, if "overload" is given to the muscles, it could stimulate hypertrophy genes.
=================================
Ok now I'm completely friggen lost.
I thought muscle damage WAS ... protein degradation. Yea, sorry if that sounds stupid as hell.
My real question NOW is - what exactly IS protein degradation? I can find all sorts of articles TALKING about it. But what IS it? I mean we've already established that it may or may not have anything to do with actual muscle damage. So...
Is it when the protein from muscle cells somehow lose ... uh... protein? ..... how is this possible without damage?
Is it when some sort of mysterious protein reserve that I-have-no-idea-what-the-hell-I'm-talking-about-anymore gets "activated" and ... ok, starts some sort of weird protein synthesis thing?
I'm running out of forums to ask this on. Please let there be someone who knows the answer.