Squats Getting Hard

[Squatson]

I apologize if this is addressed in a book other than SS:BBT, but I am a BOB (Baller On a Budget)...and have already spent many of my few dollars on sundries such as belts and micro plates and gym memberships and eggs and dead cows....

Squats are getting really hard...and was wondering the pros/cons of adding a light squat day vs. decreasing jumps from 5 to 2.5lbs. (or even 3.75 as I also have that capability)

Started out with a BW of 168 in November, and am up to around 205, have been GOingMAD and eating lots of dead stuff. Around 4k cals before the milk.

Squat started at 135 and is up to 275 with a minor reset when I "Learned how to stop leg pressing and lift with my ass"

Squat seems to be extremely close to a 5rm, having to grind out reps barely getting all 5...

Have read and re-read book, knees are shoved, chest is up, shit is tight, belt is on, hips are driving.

I am still making good progress on other lifts, 5 a sesh on cleans, 10 a sesh on DLs and 2.5 on both presses.

Just wanted to hear some of your experiences on this period towards the end of the progression, b/c I know for a fact I'm not ready to leave the novice phase yet.

[Sami]

You can either dig deep and wait until you stall, and then reset.

Or you can implement the light squat day before stalling to maintain linear progression by adding in a recovery day.

It's probably more efficient to not have the stall/deload and just go right into the added recovery.

Though I've stalled a few times and every time I reset, I went past my sticking point by about 10-20kg. But it still would probably be faster not to have to reset.

[Squatson]

I have decided that something needs to be done or a stall is imminent, and I know that it is easier to not stall than it is to stall and reset...

I guess what it boils down to is should I microload every day....or make 5lbs jumps on Monday and Friday with a light (80%) day on Wednesday...are they similar enough strategies that either one could be tried?

Or have any of you guys tried both and found one or the other to be better.

[poopmonkey]

Just to be clear, there is a vast difference between a stall and failing to complete your reps for one workout.

I mention this because it seems like you are making all your reps at the moment and you are anticipating the session where you finally miss your reps.

This is not a stall.

With that said, I would continue in 5lb increment for every training session until you hit a training session where you cannot complete all your reps.

Then, stick with that weight until you get all reps. (Should only take 2-3 sessions). From that point forward, implement the light day.

[banthafodder]

You might be surprised at how far you can go on something like the PPST Advanced Novice program, where you do a 5-lbs jump Monday and Friday, and light squats on Wednesday. Still 10 lbs/wk, which is twice the rate you'd get on something like the Texas Method. It's not strictly linear progression, but it's not weekly progression either.

I've been doing that for quite a while; I squatted 330 lbs for 3x5 the other day, and I feel nothing that would indicate I don't have at least 2-4 more weeks of such progress. At least. I'm really hoping to hit 405 before I need to move to weekly periodization.

[Brenden]

I guess what it boils down to is should I microload every day....or make 5lbs jumps on Monday and Friday with a light (80%) day on Wednesday...are they similar enough strategies that either one could be tried?

2.5lbs three times a week is 7.5lbs/wk, and 5lbs twice a week is 10lbs/wk. For that reason, I switched to using a light day on Wednesday. But I may have done that prematurely, so I'm going to switch back to 5lbs/workout until I stall again.

[Squatson]

Just to be clear, there is a vast difference between a stall and failing to complete your reps for one workout.

I mention this because it seems like you are making all your reps at the moment and you are anticipating the session where you finally miss your reps.

This is not a stall.

With that said, I would continue in 5lb increment for every training session until you hit a training session where you cannot complete all your reps.

Then, stick with that weight until you get all reps. (Should only take 2-3 sessions). From that point forward, implement the light day.


So keep going till I miss...then try again to get all 5...once I get all 5, implement a light day?

[Squatson]

haha, I actually read that without seeing the last line, which word for word answers my dumb question...

thanks for the help guys

[hatmanii]

What helped me with programming issues such as this was:

What is going to allow for the most progress the fastest?

Follow all of the guidelines for novice/intermediate in SS/PP, but keep that question in the back of your mind when forming your decisions.

Good luck!

[Mr.City]

It is going to get really fucking hard towards the end. If you can still recover, that's fine, however you might want to preemptively add a light day on Weds and keep the 5lb jumps on Mon/Friday.

[Squatson]

Just to let you guys know...I'm not afraid of the hard, the hard is the best part.

Just want to make sure that I get the most out of the prog...hopefully learn from those who have gone before me...

...on a side note...
I've been playing pool for a couple of years now, and have made a lot of improvement, but not quite at the level of many of the local players that play in the weekly pool tournaments.

Since starting the program, confidence has grown, and my ability to play pool has increased greatly...before I would get tentative and punk out on the "hard" shots...shots that I was unsure about the outcome of...now I approach each shot the same way, with the same amount of attention and focus...knowing that anything that is worth having can't be rushed, and that I am far away from my potential.

Getting mad about not being able to execute a certain high level shot is just as stupid as getting mad that I can't deadlift 600 lbs...I just have to be consistent and pay attention to what's going on.

I guess what I am trying to say is I played some of the best pool of my life yesterday, won 13 matches in a row, and claimed first prize out of 22 people, some of whom are top players in my area.

Squats are the best exercise for improving every part of human life, including charm and pocket billiards

[hatmanii]

Squats are the best exercise for improving every part of human life, including charm and pocket billiards

Quote worthy, IMO.

[Squatson]

Quote worthy, IMO.

already was a half-assed quote. a "Ripism" if you will. in one of the readings in Strong Enough

[Chewie_jrc]

I'll just echo what Mr City and others have said. I personally jumped to a light squat wednesday (front squats more specifically) once my back squat hit around 285 I think. I successfully avoided a reset and am still trucking along. I guess I'm just saying that you'll know when you need the extra recovery. Every set still feels like a 5RM though....

[kittenSmash]

When I first squatted 310 for my 3X5 on SS, I was quite certain I was done. It stayed that way all the way up past 405. Every set felt like a 5rm, but the weight kept going up. I think you will be suprised how long you can progress making 5lb jumps 3x a week. I personally wouldn't do a light squat wednesday until you stall, but I may be wrong.

[Chewie_jrc]

When I first squatted 310 for my 3X5 on SS, I was quite certain I was done. It stayed that way all the way up past 405. Every set felt like a 5rm, but the weight kept going up. I think you will be suprised how long you can progress making 5lb jumps 3x a week. I personally wouldn't do a light squat wednesday until you stall, but I may be wrong.

kS makes some good points. As long as you're eating an resting enough (most of us probably aren't), you'll be amazed at the progress you can make and how your body will adapt by the next workout. The thing was that work was getting in the way and I was missing my DL...not my squat. The wednesday light day was more to help with my DL than anything. Guess I should've specified.

[Hollis]

Squats are getting really hard...and was wondering the pros/cons of adding a light squat day vs. decreasing jumps from 5 to 2.5lbs. (or even 3.75 as I also have that capability)

Have read and re-read book, knees are shoved, chest is up, shit is tight, belt is on, hips are driving.

In that rereading you must've missed that in every explanation of novice programming, the rule is incremental linear progression. A light day is not novice programming and is not part of the novice phase. The goal is to get as strong as possible using novice program only.

You say you've got micro plates, so start using them. I think your ego is getting in the way of going to less than 5# jumps. You should get over this, pre-emptively change to 2.5# jumps before a miss, keep going, and think about changing it up when that stops.

[Squatson]

Thanks for the help guys...I just wanted to see what others did when they approached this phase of the progression. I am still adding 5 a workout, will be squatting 280 tommorow.

I guess I needed some advice other than "the bar is going to fall off your back like that" or "heavy deadlifts will ruin your back"

[Tim Lofton]

You say you've got micro plates, so start using them. I think your ego is getting in the way of going to less than 5# jumps. You should get over this, pre-emptively change to 2.5# jumps before a miss, keep going, and think about changing it up when that stops.

I thought common wisdom with this program was that 2.5# increments for the squat and deadlift was not practical as it is not enough to stimulate adaptation and to, instead, use a midweek light day.

[gzt]

I thought common wisdom with this program was that 2.5# increments for the squat and deadlift was not practical as it is not enough to stimulate adaptation and to, instead, use a midweek light day.
2.5# is simply not efficient for the squat and deadlift. Basically, if you're at the point where you're not recovered enough to add 5# each time, you're being sufficiently stressed that continuing to add 2.5# will just overwork you. Better to add a light day in teh middle of the week. If that doesn't work out, it's time for more complicated programming.

[Brenden]

I'm now stalling at 275. I did 5lb increments from 245 to 270, then got 4,2,1 reps at 275. Today I tried 275 again and got sets of 5,4,4. Any advice on what I should do moving forward? I'm going to have to miss Friday's workout, so I have Wednesday, followed by next Monday. My first inclination is to redo 275 on Wednesday, do it again on Monday since with four days off I'll lose a little strength, and from there do a light day on Wednesdays while still progressing at 5lbs on Monday and Friday.

[Tom Campitelli]

In that rereading you must've missed that in every explanation of novice programming, the rule is incremental linear progression. A light day is not novice programming and is not part of the novice phase. The goal is to get as strong as possible using novice program only.

It is best described as an advanced novice phase and there is nothing wrong with a deload on Wednesdays, if that is what is needed.


2.5# is simply not efficient for the squat and deadlift. Basically, if you're at the point where you're not recovered enough to add 5# each time, you're being sufficiently stressed that continuing to add 2.5# will just overwork you. Better to add a light day in teh middle of the week.

Agreed.

Something else to think about here is that you may have only one done one reset so far. If you are eating enough and sleeping enough, which may not be the case, consider doing another reset. You may be able to surpass this plateau before using a light Wednesday. It's a toss up.

[Tom Campitelli]

since with four days off I'll lose a little strength

If recovery is your problem, after four days off, you will be stronger than before.

[Brenden]

If recovery is your problem, after four days off, you will be stronger than before.

Yeah, that could be it. Saturday was the first time I tried 275, and I had had a night of poor sleep, and I ate very poorly on Sunday. If I make three sets of five at 275 on Wednesday, do you think I should try for 280 on the next Monday?

[Alex Bond]

I do front squats for 3x3 on Wednesday, which isn't quite as easy as a full-on light day but is definitely easier that another progressing back squat day, and I am still making linear progress 5# per session, twice a week, at 350#. I think that changing up Wednesday is really great for helping continue progress and gives you a chance to work on a really great movement (front squats) which is underrated by many non-Olympic weightlifters.

[jayknow05]

I do front squats for 3x3 on Wednesday, which isn't quite as easy as a full-on light day but is definitely easier that another progressing back squat day, and I am still making linear progress 5# per session, twice a week, at 350#. I think that changing up Wednesday is really great for helping continue progress and gives you a chance to work on a really great movement (front squats) which is underrated by many non-Olympic weightlifters.

Sorry to hijack, but at what point did you start your light day? I'm in a similar boat as the OP and wondering when I will hit a more intermediate phase.

[Chewie_jrc]

I do front squats for 3x3 on Wednesday, which isn't quite as easy as a full-on light day but is definitely easier that another progressing back squat day, and I am still making linear progress 5# per session, twice a week, at 350#. I think that changing up Wednesday is really great for helping continue progress and gives you a chance to work on a really great movement (front squats) which is underrated by many non-Olympic weightlifters.

I agree, I use front squats for my wednesday deload as well. It's by nature lighter and less stressful. Plus it's kinda fun to work on a slightly different movement, kinda gets me ready for the heavier LBBS on friday.