Difference between fat consumed and fat stored used for energy

[tamiki]

Coach,

I wanted to know if there is a difference in the body's use of the fat you eat in your diet and the fatty acids that are stored while on a strength program.

I'm 5' 5" and 237 lbs. Per day, over 5 meals, I'm getting about 200 grams of protein, about 110-125 grams of carbs, and 50-60 grams of fat. I know my calorie intake is really low, and supposedly not enough for adequate recovery. But why?

Can't the body make up the rest of the calorie deficit for recovery with its stored fatty acids?

I know I'm technically not on your program since I replaced on back squat day with front squat, and I do barbell row instead of cleans since I joined an Olympic lifting program. I started a log:

http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=15495

Thanks

[cervicornis]

There certainly is a difference between the way your body uses dietary fat vs. the accumulated fat stores in your body. I don't think it's terribly important that you worry about these differences, though. It sounds like you want to lose some body fat while increasing your strength, and you will probably be able to do so (for a while) by following SS and running a slight caloric deficit.

If you're running a caloric deficit, you will not gain strength as fast. If you don't run a caloric deficit, it's unlikely you will lose a significant amount of body fat. Just track your progress (body weight, strength gains, caloric intake) and reassess your situation every 3-4 weeks. As you lose body fat, you might find that gaining more strength becomes a priority, and you can increase your caloric intake. Or vice versa.

One thing for certain, lift consistently and with max effort, and you will be headed in the right direction.

[mstrofbass]

As I understand it, it is much more inefficient for the body to convert stored fat into useful energy. So, the body resorts to using as much as it can from your intake, whether that's carbs, protein, or fat, prior to resorting to its own fat. This may be wrong, and is probably significantly simplified, but that's how I understand it.

[jayknow05]

As I understand it, it is much more inefficient for the body to convert stored fat into useful energy. So, the body resorts to using as much as it can from your intake, whether that's carbs, protein, or fat, prior to resorting to its own fat. This may be wrong, and is probably significantly simplified, but that's how I understand it.

We wouldn't really be a successful organism if we spent our stored energy in preference over the fuel we are ingesting daily. The body resorts to fat stores only in a calorie deficit.

[Rorschach]

From the little I understand, the body prefers to use protein as energy as a last resort, as it's inefficient and creates nasty byproducts. I could be wrong though.

[confuzzl3don3]

With a healthy, working liver and kidney, the nasty byproducts should be packed and shipped out of the body as urine.

[Rorschach]

Well yes, but the body's unlikely to use protein as a fuel source if there's plenty of fat and sugar around.

[BruteForce]

Coach,

I wanted to know if there is a difference in the body's use of the fat you eat in your diet and the fatty acids that are stored while on a strength program.

I'm 5' 5" and 237 lbs. Per day, over 5 meals, I'm getting about 200 grams of protein, about 110-125 grams of carbs, and 50-60 grams of fat. I know my calorie intake is really low, and supposedly not enough for adequate recovery. But why?

Can't the body make up the rest of the calorie deficit for recovery with its stored fatty acids?

I know I'm technically not on your program since I replaced on back squat day with front squat, and I do barbell row instead of cleans since I joined an Olympic lifting program. I started a log:

http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=15495

Thanks

If I were you, I would a) raise all your macro numbers. b) Get your protein to 300 grams per day, reverse the amount of carbs and fats. Keep your carb intake around 100, and get your E.F.A. intake to 200 or so.

When you say you wanna lose bodyfat, are you talking a little bit, or are you talking getting to single digit numbers?

[BruteForce]

In short, make healthy fat the primary source of energy for your body, get all your carbs in for breakfast, and some preoworkout, and eat healthy fats with your proteins the rest of the day. Throw some cardio in there and you will drop bf pretty quickly.

[nisora33]

If I were you, I would a) raise all your macro numbers. b) Get your protein to 300 grams per day, reverse the amount of carbs and fats. Keep your carb intake around 100, and get your E.F.A. intake to 200 or so.

Woah, careful there:
http://www.anthonycolpo.com/Can_Low_Carb_Diets_Make_You_Crazy.html

Read the whole thing, but here are some highlights:


However, weight loss was not the only outcome measured on this diet. The study also examined the effect of ketogenic versus non-ketogenic diets on cognitive function. The researchers found that, in the first week, ketogenic dieters performed far worse on the trail making task, a widely used test that measures a range of neuropsychological skills including letter and number recognition, visual scanning, motor speed and sequencing ability. After the first week, the ketogenic group began to improve their test results, but by the time the study concluded at 28 days, their results were still lagging behind the non-ketogenic dieters[Wing]...
Although ketone concentrations were significantly higher in the zero carbohydrate group, there were no differences in fat loss between the two groups, further confirming the fallacy of the “ketosis = greater fat loss” theory. The zero-carbohydrate group did however experience something the non-ketogenic group didn't: namely, significantly poorer exercise performance...
So here we have the longest-running study so far, and it showed significantly worse psychological outcomes for the low-carbohydrate diet. Even though the low-carb group fared worse, the CSIRO researchers point out that mood state scores on average for both groups at baseline and throughout the study remained within the normal range for healthy adults. [B]The low-carb group, it seems, was simply at the more angry, confused, and dejected end of the normal range…
A recent case report gives us an insight, and it isn’t pretty. The 2006 report, published in the journal Psychosomatics, described a woman with well-controlled panic disorder who developed a return of her panic symptoms after starting the Atkins diet. She had been diagnosed at the age of thirty-seven with panic disorder, which was successfully managed for the next ten years with daily usage of alprazolam and sertraline. During this time, she had only two full-blown panic attacks, rare limited-symptom attacks, and 'normal functioning'
Point is: you have to be careful handing out blanket diet advice to people. The one-size-fits-all approach is usually not a good idea. And 100g of carbs a day is enough to induce ketosis in some.

-Stacey

[BruteForce]

Woah, careful there:
http://www.anthonycolpo.com/Can_Low_Carb_Diets_Make_You_Crazy.html

Read the whole thing, but here are some highlights:


Point is: you have to be careful handing out blanket diet advice to people. The one-size-fits-all approach is usually not a good idea. And 100g of carbs a day is enough to induce ketosis in some.

-Stacey

You're exactly correct Stacey. I should've noted that the advice was more of a guideline to be tinkered with by the individual. Low carb isn't for everyone, but it is something that he should experiment with because it can be quite effective.

[tamiki]

Thanks for all the replies.

I feel I have a high enough bodyfat %age and I'm sufficiently deconditioned to run a lower than usual deficit for a little bit. I've have good control over my eating habits lately, so I'm confident I can adjust easily when needed.

The only change I'm going to implement for now is to eat a larger %age of carbs in the morning vs the evening. I am going to avoid a keto diet (don't really know much about it anyway).


Just track your progress (body weight, strength gains, caloric intake) and reassess your situation every 3-4 weeks.

This is what I want to do. In about the last 10 days, I haven't eaten more than about 2,200 calories in a day (except 1 day where I treated myself, but was still under 3,000). I lifted like I usually do and I went from 237 to 239.

But it seems I can tighten the belt on my pants more (I'm already on the last notch). It's too early to tell, so I'm going to stay on the path and evaluate after more time has passed.


When you say you wanna lose bodyfat, are you talking a little bit, or are you talking getting to single digit numbers?

I'm 5' 5" and 239 lbs. Getting it down to the teens will be an accomplishment.

Lastly, I don't think I phrased my original question well.

My question is:

A person with normal bodyfat strength trains hard, and should consume a large number of calories X for recovery and muscle repair. He needs energy for this, and it comes from what he intakes.

Assume that if a person who has a lot of bodyfat does a strength routine that requires the same number of calories X for recovery and repair - and he consumes that same about of protein as the person above - but his carb and fat intake is lower - will the body make up the difference in energy from his stored fat?

So if fat guy needs to make up 2500 calories from carbs and fat combined is there a difference between him

(1) eating those 2,500 calories
(2) eating 2,000 calories and [what will the body's response be to make up the 500 calorie difference]

Or another way of saying is, when you lift you are taught to eat more for recovery. But if you have a fuckton of fat in your body, can't that be used for the recovery?

I don't know. I hope I explained it. None of this shit changes what I'm eating or how I'm lifting right now. It's just a question. I just want to understand the physiological/chemical process better I have to go lift now. Thanks again.

[Ironc]

The short answer is yes your fat can be accessed for energy needs/recovery provided your body has the ability to access your fat stores.

High levels of insulin, which is likely the cause of your weight gain to begin with, can inhibit your body's ability to access your fat stores as an energy source.

To improve your insulin levels, stay away from all the refined/complex carbs (grains, breads, pastas, anything with sugar in it, starches, and dare I say on this board... milk). Milk is an excellent growth promoter but if you already have an elevated insulin issue and are trying to reduce BF%, it should be avoided because of the insulin response to the lactose.

[Sami]

I posted along a similar idea on another forum. The question was something like, "why can't fat stores be used for muscular hypertrophy" or something like that. As in, since fat can be broken down to release energy and can be converted to intermediates used in metabolism.

I said this, but I don't fully understand it all. Also, I'm sure there is very important amino acid component to the argument. But what if protein consumption is adequate yet calories are low, why can't fat still be used for muscle growth?


Interesting.

I don't really know, tbh. It's probably something really simple that an expert could answer in one sentence.

My take, for any of the tissue to go under catabolism, a calorie deficit needs to be in place. We know this because otherwise we preferentially use the food we're eating as an energy/intermediate source. On a deficit, we start breaking down our own resources.

So, why not use our own energy source, fat, for muscular hypertrophy? We know muscle is very difficult to grow. It takes an incredible amount of effort, time and food/energy to grow muscle. It just doesn't want to be there for some reason. I don't know why. On a calorie deficit, all the other body's pathways and cellular processes are just to great a drain for the (now very) valuable energy/intermediates being release from our own stores.

It seems to me, that there is a balance between the maximum energy/intermediates that is able to be released from fat, and the minimum energy/intermediates required for all of the body's needs.

My guess.