Squats (FIXED??) and a big deadlift PR.

[tweakxc03]

Turns out I needed my stance to be narrower, not wider, with my toes out more. Still trying to fix my bad head position habbit. I correct myself mid-set on each of them.

knees still need some work, but it is much better, and i feel a lot stronger... glad i was able to push through the sticking point.

and yes, i know i don't have lifting shoes on. working on it...

The deadlift has a little trouble with my ass moving up to fast, but this isn't terrible, as the weight is already off the ground when it happens. Just need to focus on pushing longer with my quads. Big PR. Am I missing anything else?

in the words of jack black...SHADOOSH.

Squats BEFORE - 230 (thursday)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp4mf__Ue1M

Squats AFTER - 230 (today)
Set 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI05GRzJFTQ

Set 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRfIgotWve8

Set 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ipB6_-0PA

Deadlift: 285
http://www.youtube.com/user/adamclontz?feature=mhw4#p/a/u/0/5wHOBmbCf0s

[Robert Callahan]

Turns out I needed my stance to be narrower, not wider, with my toes out more. Still trying to fix my bad head position habbit. I correct myself mid-set on each of them.

knees still need some work, but it is much better, and i feel a lot stronger... glad i was able to push through the sticking point.

and yes, i know i don't have lifting shoes on. working on it...

The deadlift has a little trouble with my ass moving up to fast, but this isn't terrible, as the weight is already off the ground when it happens. Just need to focus on pushing longer with my quads. Big PR. Am I missing anything else?

SHADOOSH.

Squats: 230
Set 1

Set 2

Set 3

Deadlift: 285

is there supposed to be video links here or something????

[tweakxc03]

yes. it posted by accident. videos uploading now...

[gzt]

Yeah, you need to work on holding the back angle on the deadlift. It's not better if the bar's off the ground, it's worse. And you need shoes. It's probably not so bad to lack proper shoes on the deadlift, since a lot of people lift without a heel and you need all the advantage you can get in terms of getting closer to the ground at your height, but it's important for the squat.

Also, you might need to work on keeping the chest up on the squat a little. I only looked at #1, which didn't have a great view.

[nisora33]

Only watched the second set of your newest squats, and they look pretty good. Good work.

-S

[tweakxc03]

ok thanks. I'll work on the back angle on the deadlift and chest up on the squats.

and i will get shoes

[Tim Lofton]

Good work; way to make the necessary adjustments. Get the shoes when you feel you can. Some things in life are more important than others. Your lifts, while maybe not at an optimum, will still progress. I'm still using Chuck Taylor high tops and will for some time to come. I'm very comfortable in them and like the feel of the lifts in them for now.
A belt is in my immediate future though. With a 13 year old son growing rapidly, playing baseball, and a daughter not far behind, on a swim team, and trying to put together a home gym, shoes are not happening for a while.

[blowdpanis]

Good work; way to make the necessary adjustments. Get the shoes when you feel you can. Some things in life are more important than others. Your lifts, while maybe not at an optimum, will still progress. I'm still using Chuck Taylor high tops and will for some time to come. I'm very comfortable in them and like the feel of the lifts in them for now.
A belt is in my immediate future though. With a 13 year old son growing rapidly, playing baseball, and a daughter not far behind, on a swim team, and trying to put together a home gym, shoes are not happening for a while.

I used oly shoes exclusively for ~3 years, and found that, when switching back to flat soled shoes, might have actually been a little stronger in them. I strongly disagree with the commonly expressed sentiment around here that oly shoes are a must for squatting - this has to depend hugely on one's anthropometry.

I.e. I can see a case in using them for people with long femurs relative to their torso (e.g. a lot of tall dudes), since they tend to get pretty bent over in a low bar squat, and a heel will keep them a bit more upright. But how about the very common long torso, short legged types (e.g. me)? Probably a lot less useful.

[PVC]

I used oly shoes exclusively for ~3 years, and found that, when switching back to flat soled shoes, might have actually been a little stronger in them. I strongly disagree with the commonly expressed sentiment around here that oly shoes are a must for squatting - this has to depend hugely on one's anthropometry.

I.e. I can see a case in using them for people with long femurs relative to their torso (e.g. a lot of tall dudes), since they tend to get pretty bent over in a low bar squat, and a heel will keep them a bit more upright. But how about the very common long torso, short legged types (e.g. me)? Probably a lot less useful.

What about oly shoes that have the heel cut down to be flat?

I think a lot of the emphasis on using oly shoes has to do with the stability of the shoes, not just the heel lift.

[Robert Callahan]

I used oly shoes exclusively for ~3 years, and found that, when switching back to flat soled shoes, might have actually been a little stronger in them. I strongly disagree with the commonly expressed sentiment around here that oly shoes are a must for squatting - this has to depend hugely on one's anthropometry.

I.e. I can see a case in using them for people with long femurs relative to their torso (e.g. a lot of tall dudes), since they tend to get pretty bent over in a low bar squat, and a heel will keep them a bit more upright. But how about the very common long torso, short legged types (e.g. me)? Probably a lot less useful.

Everyone that squats heavy will do so better in a good pair of lifting shoes. Now depending on anthropometry some will do better with more or less of a heel, this is true, but this does not mean barefoot. There is a reason the worlds best lifters wear them.

And as a side not the OP has long femurs and is a person that very much needs a good pair of lifting shoes to aid in squat stability and form.

Deadlifts on the other hand... I think certain body types can do without any heel at all.

[blowdpanis]

What about oly shoes that have the heel cut down to be flat?

I think a lot of the emphasis on using oly shoes has to do with the stability of the shoes, not just the heel lift.

I don't honestly find my oly shoes more stable than, say, a pair of Adidas Samba's or Chuck's, when it comes to basic strength lifts.

[blowdpanis]

Everyone that squats heavy will do so better in a good pair of lifting shoes. Now depending on anthropometry some will do better with more or less of a heel, this is true, but this does not mean barefoot. There is a reason the worlds best lifters wear them.

And as a side not the OP has long femurs and is a person that very much needs a good pair of lifting shoes to aid in squat stability and form.

Deadlifts on the other hand... I think certain body types can do without any heel at all.

My point is that a good pair of lifting shoes might be a $30 pair of Chuck's, as opposed to $150 pair of Adidas.

[tweakxc03]

any thoughts on cues for maintaining back angle in the first half of the deadlift?

[blowdpanis]

any thoughts on cues for maintaining back angle in the first half of the deadlift?

Most of the problem is that you're attempting to start with your butt too low in the pull. Try going through Rip's DL setup again...

1) Position the bar such that it's over the middle of your foot. Have a "normal" stance with feet angled a bit out.

2) Grab the bar as you normally would without lowering your hips.

3) Push your shins to the bar, but do not let the bar move forward of midfoot. While keeping the bar in this position, "squeeze" into your setup, using the bar itself to help you arch your back, hard. I.e. literally pull on the bar into your tight setup position, squeezing your chest up.

4) However high your ass is at this point, with bar over midfoot and spine in extension, is the "right" hip position for you to start. If the bar has been pushed forward as a result of the "chest up" step in #3, you're doing it wrong, i.e. lowering the hips more than just arching the back. Make sure the bar stays approximately over midfoot, with the bar in contact with your shins at the start.

5) Pull from THAT position, which I promise will have your hips higher than what we're seeing in that 285 video.

[Robert Callahan]

My point is that a good pair of lifting shoes might be a $30 pair of Chuck's, as opposed to $150 pair of Adidas.

Meh, while Chuck's have thin soles they still have a small amount of squish to them and are not the most rigid things in the world. Plus they do not have the metatarsal strap for added support. They are fine for DL for certain body types, and decent for Sumo stance power lifting squats but not much else IMO.

And I got my VS Athletics lifting shoes on sale for $35 and even not on sale they are ~%75, so you can get a good Oly lifting shoe for a reasonable price, not $150.

[tweakxc03]

rip also says that if your ass raises up it can also be due to the hamstrings not doing their job of holding the hips down while pushing with the quads.... meaning the deadlift should be initiated with the quads, and the hamstrings/glutes lock the back angle into position.

the 1" rule seems strange to me. when i line up with the bar over the middle of the foot, it is farter away from my shins... more like 1.5 to 2" maybe. 1 inch doesn't seem to give my shins room at all to go forward, which turns it almost into a romanian deadlift. I'd have almost zero knee bend.

[blowdpanis]

rip also says that if your ass raises up it can also be due to the hamstrings not doing their job of holding the hips down while pushing with the quads.... meaning the deadlift should be initiated with the quads, and the hamstrings/glutes lock the back angle into position.

the 1" rule seems strange to me. when i line up with the bar over the middle of the foot, it is farter away from my shins... more like 1.5 to 2" maybe. 1 inch doesn't seem to give my shins room at all to go forward, which turns it almost into a romanian deadlift. I'd have almost zero knee bend.

I don't think the 1" thing is a hard and fast rule, just make sure it's about over the middle of your foot.

It's possible with your anthropometry that you might be a good candidate for a sumo/semi-sumo setup, too. Use the same setup as above except...

1) Set your grip first such that your arms are more or less perpendicular to the ground

2) Set your feet RIGHT outside of your arms in this position.

Same shit in regards to the middle of your foot, squeezing yourself tight before initiating the pull etc. You will be more upright with a bit more knee bend as a result.

[PVC]

Meh, while Chuck's have thin soles they still have a small amount of squish to them and are not the most rigid things in the world. Plus they do not have the metatarsal strap for added support. They are fine for DL for certain body types, and decent for Sumo stance power lifting squats but not much else IMO.

What body types are better suited to using chucks for deadlifts?

[tweakxc03]

I just ordered Rip's shoes.

so no more ball busting on wearing Vibrams!

[StayFrosty]

I don't think the 1" thing is a hard and fast rule, just make sure it's about over the middle of your foot.

It's possible with your anthropometry that you might be a good candidate for a sumo/semi-sumo setup, too. Use the same setup as above except...

1) Set your grip first such that your arms are more or less perpendicular to the ground

2) Set your feet RIGHT outside of your arms in this position.

Same shit in regards to the middle of your foot, squeezing yourself tight before initiating the pull etc. You will be more upright with a bit more knee bend as a result.

Agreed...remember, mid foot is the middle of the WHOLE foot, toes to back, not just what you see infront of your shins when you look down.

For some more clarification, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

Your back angle relative to the floor gets smaller because it's fixing its self to the proper position, with your scapulas under the bar. Note that the bar path curves towards your shins as your back angle flattens.

I have a similar body type as you: super long legs and a short torso, and my back is almost parallel to the floor for my deadlift start position.

If you wana use more quads in the pull, like blowd said, try a sumo stance.

[Robert Callahan]

What body types are better suited to using chucks for deadlifts?

Long femurs, Long Torso, Short arms.

Basically any build that forces your back angle to be very horizontal. The reason for this is that the heel elevation on lifting shoes will make your back angle slightly more horizontal. For people with good builds this is not a problem, but for people with shitty frames for dead lifting it takes you from a bad pulling position and makes it worse.