Bad patch of recovery or time for intermediate programming

[Tim Lofton]

For what they're worth, quick stats at a glance:

Begin SS A/B program in mid-November, age 43, 6'0", 165#. Now on advanced novice with an 80% squat day midweek and deadlift only once per week, age 43, 199#. Lifting progression as follows:

Squat: 100# -> 290#
Bench: 85# -> 175#
Deadlift: 135# -> 305#
Press: 75# -> 125#
Pwr Clean: 50# -> 120#

I've read through intermediate logs on this site, trying to get an idea of when most have swtiched over, understanding that we are all still "experiments of one" and that it can/will vary from person-to-person. I've also read on the 70sbig site, an article written by Justin (pretty sure) about how most folks don't fully exhaust novice progression, and provided a couple of examples. One issue with this was I don't know how old his example trainees were. This failure to take novice to completion is what I'm trying to avoid.

The problem is, over the past six weeks or maybe more, I've had a couple of cycles where sleep has been really bad. I get to sleep fine and stay there for about four hours, but then wake up and can't get back to sleep, sometimes for a couple of hours, sometimes not at all. I cannot identify any additional life stresses, out of the usual, that would promote this condition. I am an assistant coach for a 13-14 year old baseball team, but enjoy that and don't find it physically detracting. Maybe I'm underestimating it.

Furthermore, appetite during the day is diminished quite a bit compared to what it was. I mean, I'm usually hungry right after workouts, but it doesn't take much to fill me and I don't find myself that hungry at other times during the day. That said, I haven't decreased my intake, but I'm also finding it hard to keep eating what I am.

Soreness hangs on a bit more, even during times when I've taken an extra day between sessions and even after going to the 80% squat day. I do no assistance exercises except for chins/pull-ups on Mondays after squats and bench or press.

In the past couple of weeks, I've put in an extra day off here and there, and I have seen some relief that corresponds to better sleep, but when I resume the standard program, the sleep patterns go to hell again.

I'm not anxious to get to intermediate programming or anything, but I'm also getting tired of wrestling with this pattern of progression/recovery, or lack of. All of this seems to be the hallmark signs of overtraining. When I am rested/sleeping and eating well, progression goes proportionally well.

So I guess I'm looking for input and/or recommendations. Has anyone tried novice progression with two days in between, or is this too inefficient? I wouldn't have expected to be at this point after only 4+ months, but is age that big of a factor? Anyhow, thanks for comments and suggestions.

[nisora33]

Hey Tim,

Out of curiosity, have you deloaded at any point in time?

-S.

[Tim Lofton]

Hey Tim,

Out of curiosity, have you deloaded at any point in time?

-S.

No, I have not performed any deload, and maybe I need to read up more on that. I thought that was utilized more on a single particular lift for treating a stall? Would this be an across the board deload?
I guess I haven't paid that much attention to deloading as I've, so far, been able to fight through most progression hang-ups.

[milesdyson]

since you're only really hungry around workouts, you need to make sure you're doing everything you can to aid recovery. what type of carb source are you ingesting pre, peri, and post workout?

[nisora33]

No, I have not performed any deload, and maybe I need to read up more on that. I thought that was utilized more on a single particular lift for treating a stall? Would this be an across the board deload?
I guess I haven't paid that much attention to deloading as I've, so far, been able to fight through most progression hang-ups.

You can overreach with regard to movements as well as in a more general sense. Just based on your description of how you've been feeling lately, I'd say you might just have dug yourself a little ditch in recovery and need a week of reduced stress. This would not be a "strict" deload, taking you two weeks to build back up to old PRs, as described in PP, but maybe EITHER a 10% deload of all of your lifts for a week, returning to your old PRs the week after, OR instead of performing, for example, 3 sets of 5 on, say, your squat, you'd warm up to your work set, do one set of 5, then call it a day for that lift, do that for a week, then return to 3 sets of 5, or 5 sets of 3--or what have you, depending on the lift--the following week. These recommendations assume that you haven't inadvertantly neglected eating as normal and caused yourself to overreach that way. Of course, either way it probably wouldn't hurt to reduce training stress for a week and just eat everything in sight during that time.

-S.

[Tim Lofton]

Thanks Stacey and milesdyson,

Very well then. It looks like I need a reset. My weight has been essentially static for the past couple of weeks, telling me that I've either diminished my intake some and/or the quality of my intake has gone downhill.
I think, as opposed to subtracting weight for the moment, I will opt for warm-up sets plus one work set at current weight, and save the 10% deload in case it comes to that.
I guess utilizing methods, that are sensible, in order to keep the novice progression intact should be the foundation of digging out of the recovery ditch. I will give this a go this week and hope sleep cycles recover, as well as eating better/more.

[nisora33]

a
I think, as opposed to subtracting weight for the moment, I will opt for warm-up sets plus one work set at current weight, and save the 10% deload in case it comes to that.

I think that would be best.



I guess utilizing methods, that are sensible, in order to keep the novice progression intact should be the foundation of digging out of the recovery ditch. I will give this a go this week and hope sleep cycles recover, as well as eating better/more.

Yep.

-S.

[william jackson]

listen to nisora.
if you have not deloaded, reset, or stalled, you have no business thinking you are done with linear progression.
if you are chrinically overloaded, try making your second day a "light" day. but this will slow progress and should only be done when necessary

[tennisgod]

Hi Tim. Your situation is very similar to mine. I'm 50yo, 6'2", 217lbs, lifts are similar. And like you, my weight has stabilised after going up from 180lbs.
Recovery is very difficult now. And the soreness and number of injuries continues to rise. Currently, I have EXTREMELY sore achilles tendons on both legs, a sore forearm (very bad for tennis), and a sort-of painful shoulder (although manageable).

Our younger forum members don't understand that the older lifters cannot continue to eat since we don't have the raging hormones necessary to assimilate it, so it ends up on the gut. I am now a 40" waist with the rest of the body looking much better. But I also suffer from low T-levels (all too common with my age), so the affect on the gut is even worse.

My sleeps are also affected, and like you, I wake up a number of times in the night (before it was just to go pee). I attribute this to injuty pain and general soreness but could be a overall CNS thing... don't know.

I have taken off 2 workouts this week for the first time ever since the body is just not right... especially the achilles.

What I can't understand is: if the body can lift the weights, why can't it recover from them?

[stronger]

This would not be a "strict" deload, taking you two weeks to build back up to old PRs, as described in PP, but maybe EITHER a 10% deload of all of your lifts for a week, returning to your old PRs the week after, OR instead of performing, for example, 3 sets of 5 on, say, your squat, you'd warm up to your work set, do one set of 5, then call it a day for that lift, do that for a week, then return to 3 sets of 5, or 5 sets of 3--or what have you, depending on the lift--the following week.

Nisora, could I pick your brain and ask you what a strict deload is? I'm assuming it has something to do with a more significant length of time usually seen in advanced programming models

[nisora33]

"Strict deload"--just a phrase I made up to refer to what Rip describes in PP: deloading by 10% then working back up to your previous PR over the course of about two weeks. I was trying to distinguish that kind of deload from the kind of deload I was getting at, which is reducing load for a week to allow him to get out of the ditch he's dug himself. But I think the second option will benefit him more--i.e. warming up to a single work set for all of his lifts then calling it a day.

-S.

[stronger]

"Strict deload"--just a phrase I made up to refer to what Rip describes in PP: deloading by 10% then working back up to your previous PR over the course of about two weeks. I was trying to distinguish that kind of deload from the kind of deload I was getting at, which is reducing load for a week to allow him to get out of the ditch he's dug himself. But I think the second option will benefit him more--i.e. warming up to a single work set for all of his lifts then calling it a day.

-S.

I misread your comma after "deload" in the first post, changing its meaning entirely. silly me! :)