The Split Snatch and Clean

[stef]

by Bill Starr

...you do not need a coach to teach you this lift. I know this because I taught myself, as did nearly every lifter I trained and competed with. It can be done if the will to do so is there. If I could do it, so can you. I am certainly not a prodigy, not by a long shot. Every gain I made was through sweat and determination – trying a different method, failing, regrouping, trying something else until I found what worked, and then drilling until my technique improved.

Full Article (http://startingstrength.com/articles/split_lifts_starr.pdf)

Resources Page (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources)

[Stu Hughes]

Awesome as ever. Stef, I'm wondering if you know what Bill's training consists of these days? Is he still an imposingly strong man as he appears in the rare photo on the internet?

[Dastardly]

Great stuff, I have been curious about the split lifts for a good while. I feel they could really suit me as my squat is awkwardly wide and not very deep. But I can split very low.

Ive been wanting to see a video of a split snatch with a competition weight for a good while but have not been able to find anything.

Ill use some of Starr's tips to practice and see if I can manage myself.

I was also wondering if there is any recommended safe method for lowering non-bumper plates down from a snatch?

[gzt]

Laree sent Bill Starr some questions via postal mail and put his answers on the internets here: http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/7317/tp/4/

That should answer your training question.

[matclone]

That's what I call throwing down the gauntlet. If Bill Starr says you can learn the split snatch yourself, well, no excuses.

I've seen some old-timers in recent years, like Bill Deni, still using the split snatch.

Ibrahim Shams, who is mentioned in the article, clean and jerked 338 pounds at a body weight of 148, in 1939 (I think). In any case, this remained a world record for a good 20 years. According to David Willoughby's book, Shams was 69 inches (5'-9"). Something to think about for those of us who fall naturally on the thin side of the register.

[Toadthewetsprocket]

Very inspiring article. "if I can do it, you can do it." I really like it. Most of the time when you read descriptions as of how to do the olympic lifts the writers tend to focus only on the minute details of the lift. They forget that the most important part, at least for me, is motivating you and guiding you into the process of self-learning.

I'm definitely looking into using this snatch style. I've been giving it a shot just after reading it, and while I know it'll take long while for me before I master it. I can say it felt easier and less demanding, in terms of flexibility, than the squat version.

Thanks,

[Mark Rippetoe]

Awesome as ever. Stef, I'm wondering if you know what Bill's training consists of these days? Is he still an imposingly strong man as he appears in the rare photo on the internet?

Bill is 72 now, and still trains in his apartment four days a week. He is still imposing.

[stronger]

Tried the split snatch today, loved it. I'm still moving pansy weights, but I made a 15lb PR.

Thanks Bill!

[Randle McMurphy]

I really like bill starr's attitude about teaching yourself the olympic lifts.

Conventional wisdom is that it is not possible, but really think that this is BS.

But i taught myself, and i have cleaner form then most of the guys taught by the local coach.

Starr taught himself from magazine pics. But we live in a modern age of youtube and forums like this, coaches like dan john, and mark rippetoe (...and justin with 70's big) and starting strength books.

[Stu Hughes]

Awesome. Yet another reason to get an interview with him.

[caseyd123]

i have been experimenting with the olympic lifts and have some questions about the grip widths, as ive been doing some trial and error. First of all with the Snatch, I heard from an oly coach (I think Gayle Hatch?) that the grip should be so that the bar is 4-6 inches over-heard. In my own trial/error period I started to think about it more in terms of how the grip width affects the jumping position. At one width i was experimenting I could tell I wasnt finishing the pull and was jumping earlier, when I slowed down and did a deadlift from that width i figured out why i wasnt finishing the pull: if I used the jumping position that correlates to that grip width i would slam my dick everytime the 2nd pull came along, so my body was subconsciously not finishing the pull to protect the kids :). So I widened my grip a little bit and now my jumping position is about 3 inches below my belly button, is that too high?

And with the C and J i decided to just start with my press grip width but when it came time to jerk that, it seemed to narrow and the bar had to far to travel over head. Should the jerk grip be wider than the press?

Thanks guys

[Hawkpeter]

I think anyone who approaches lifting with an intuitive mindset can figure out many of the basic concepts of lifting just as Bill Starr described in this article.

Some practical problem solving to improve lifting performance is a virtue.

[stef]

In my own trial/error period I started to think about it more in terms of how the grip width affects the jumping position. Exactly right. It's nice if your proportions happen to work out so that you have a nice, efficient overhead position, but getting the most powerful pull is your first concern.


Should the jerk grip be wider than the press?Yes. The two exercises are completely different in their requirements for efficiency. Wider = more efficient in the case of the jerk. I take a grip about 4 inches wider per side for the jerk (or clean & jerk) myself.

s.

[Randle McMurphy]

i have been experimenting with the olympic lifts and have some questions about the grip widths, as ive been doing some trial and error. First of all with the Snatch, I heard from an oly coach (I think Gayle Hatch?) that the grip should be so that the bar is 4-6 inches over-heard. In my own trial/error period I started to think about it more in terms of how the grip width affects the jumping position. At one width i was experimenting I could tell I wasnt finishing the pull and was jumping earlier, when I slowed down and did a deadlift from that width i figured out why i wasnt finishing the pull: if I used the jumping position that correlates to that grip width i would slam my dick everytime the 2nd pull came along, so my body was subconsciously not finishing the pull to protect the kids :). So I widened my grip a little bit and now my jumping position is about 3 inches below my belly button, is that too high?


i started off snatching with a very narrow grip, since it was all my wrist could take. As my wrists got used to it, and because i wrap my wrists, i was slowly able to widen my grip. I agree with the idea that the bar should be around 4" over head some lifters go lower eg suleymanoglu, and some go higher eg aramnau.

this should mean that, the final point of contact should be about your penis/pubic bone, but below where your hip bones point out ie your lower abdomen.

As for the bar hitting 'the old chap' - i have painfully leanrt through trial and error what to do with it.

Try and wear a compression short, to stop 'the old chap' from going into a position where it shouldn't be.

For the snatch tuck it totally down, and hopefully pinned down somewhat by your compression short. I used to have it up - and as described above, this meant that well executed snatch would result in the bar slamming into the poor fella.

For the clean, you find find tucking it up is better deopending on your bar path.

If you ever do bump your junk, the best thing to do is just take a knee, head down, and take a few deep breaths and relax for a couple of minutes. Re-arrange your trouser department to the correct position. And then try and forget about it for the rest of your workout - Worrying about the bar hitting your penis is a great way to completely kill the power of your 2nd pull.

R P McMurphy


Yes. The two exercises are completely different in their requirements for efficiency. Wider = more efficient in the case of the jerk. I take a grip about 4 inches wider per side for the jerk (or clean & jerk) myself.

s.

I have had a some real problems with wrist injuries due to cleaning. Normally because whilst going for a pr, the bar has looped in front - and so landed a little to low on the delts causing my hand/wrist to be jammed back.

i traditionally have preferred a very narrow grip since i can get my elbows up higher - often only 1" into the knurling on an eleiko bar.

But here's the thing, i have really long arms, when i snatch i have my hands 3" outside of the smooth rings, and this get the bar about 5" over head.

I have noticed that the elite lifters who take the snatch grip in the same position as me, take their grip 3-4" into the knurling for the clean.

Do you think I should widen my grip?
And also, do you think my re-occuring wrist injuries could be as a result of this very narrow grip?

many thanks,
R P McMurphy

[stef]

Do you think I should widen my grip?
And also, do you think my re-occuring wrist injuries could be as a result of this very narrow grip?

Depends. Why don't you post a video in the technique forum?

If your grip is contributing to your catching the bar in the wrong position, then yes. But your description sounds more like what happens when your pull is off and you're not meeting the bar correctly. That can happen with the right grip, but jumping early. Of course if you're jumping at the wrong place because the narrow grip puts the bar too low on your thigh, then the forward, loopy pull is coming from the bad grip. See comments on finding your grip for the snatch. Same thing applies here.

[Randle McMurphy]

Depends. Why don't you post a video in the technique forum?

If your grip is contributing to your catching the bar in the wrong position, then yes. But your description sounds more like what happens when your pull is off and you're not meeting the bar correctly. That can happen with the right grip, but jumping early. Of course if you're jumping at the wrong place because the narrow grip puts the bar too low on your thigh, then the forward, loopy pull is coming from the bad grip. See comments on finding your grip for the snatch. Same thing applies here.

Good post, really good post. I agree that my bar path is quite loopy. Especially after seeing justin's video of his guys doing o-lifts.

I think it is because i jump early.

I hear the best cues for this are:
-Think about 'Jumping back'
-Wait more until you jump.

My question is this, is it possible to have a loopy bar path if you jumped back say 2"?

many thanks!