tight abs and squats; bench press and grip

[msingh]

Two anecdotes paraphrased. Someone reports how a cue from ss.com's ksc helped his squat, "keep your abs tight", and mrcity said he could tell when he'd used 'too much back' when his lower back felt sore after squats. ok. here is my question.

We are always told by the authoratays that the purpose of the 'core' is to functionally protect the spine under heavy load (again loosely paraphrased). Now surely if this is the purpose of those muscles then this will happen regardless of you consciously tightening or flexing or whatever? Or did the proverbial caveman need Mark Rippetoe to tell him about the valsalva before he picked up a heavy boulder?

I know when i fail at the bottom of a squat, and rest the bar on the pins, i can feel my abs super tight. But i would never be conscious of this during a rep because the last thing i'm thinking about is, "am i tight now?' -- the only thing on my mind is to get the damn weight up. I just have no idea whether my abs are tight or not during the rep, except in the case when i fail the rep, with never a conscious attempt to maintain tightness throughout. Before the rep i always try to take a big breathe and hold my abs tight, of course.

Lastly about bench. Guys like KK and some bad ass old timer from powerandbulk forums ( http://functional-strength.blogspot.com/ ) describes how he brought his bench press grip in to stop beating up his tendons and shoulders, and how muscles such are triceps and biceps recover much much faster and it's just safer to train the bench that way. I'm sure these guys are right, speaking as they are from experience. In lieu of these facts, would it be prudent for any lifter to consciously make the same change at some point?

[Dastardly]

If I do not make a concious effort to create a fiendishly intense valsava & push out abs strongly at the bottome of squat then my back will go into flexion at the bottom.

That is a fact.

I have been training for over a year and the lifts have definetely become intuitive, yet I still focus on doing particular important things like pushing knees out, push abs out, drive hips etc..

It does not matter that I may have squatted hundreds of times. The goal is to be always lifting challenging weights, pushing and progressing, forcing body to do things it could not do before.

For this it is very understandable to have to focus mentally & physically very fucking hard.

Oh, also, a weighted squat, especially one which starts at the top is definetely not a common natural phenomena. So it is expectable to have to focus very hard.

[gzt]

Wendler also recommends it for raw benchers. If you set up for the bench in the way recommended by SS, most people will have a grip like that, too. It's a pretty common notion that, if you're benching raw, don't go wide. But then the competitive powerlifters have the dialectic that wide -> more weight, and they're not graded for shoulder safety in competition...

[Mr.City]

When did I say I used too much back? That doesn't sound like me. My back was probably sore from a failure to keep tight, a failure to shove my knees out, which creates the first problems listed, or my back relaxed due to my excessive depth.

[msingh]

dastardly, you consciously push out abs at the bottom? Hmmm. I have to try that some time. Maybe on my warmup sets.

gzt, cool beans, wendler too. I'm not sure if the SS bench is the same thing. For me since i have long arms, keeping them vertical fixes my grip quite wide, just slightly inside the outer rings. Do you think there is a benefit to keeping a wider grip for someone who isn't an advanced lifter, just because it allows more weight to be used making him stronger?

city, yes something like that, pretty close to what i wrote man, you pedant :) What cues do you use to keep yourself tight?

[Mr.City]

The same ones listed in SS: chest up, hard arch in back, squeeze torso tight.

[simonsky]

its not how wide your grip is, its how your armpit angle adjusts with your grip. i see some strong benchers where their forearm is not perpendicular to the bar because their armpit angle is not relative to their grip width. its as long as you keep your elbows under the bar.

[IlPrincipeBrutto]

Hi Msingh,


Or did the proverbial caveman need Mark Rippetoe to tell him about the valsalva before he picked up a heavy boulder?

No, he didn't, but he still had to consciously perform the Valsalva to pick up the boulder. His muscles were there, but if not commanded they would not perform the Valsalva on their own.

Henc, to answer you question: no, core muscles can't do everything by just being there. They need to be controlled, especially when performing heavy lifts.

And yes, you don't ask yourself "am I tight" at the bottom of the squat. You tighten your core first, before you start going down, and simply hold it like that for the duration of the movement.

My 2c, of course.


IPB