SS adjustments for 50 year olds.

[dogpatch]

Rip,

I am about your age. I am a sometime Crossfitter and have been using the starting strength program between shoulder repairs. I am about a year out from my last shoulder surgery. The repair work included bone spur removal, repair of labrul tears, and removal of loose cartilage. I also have some pretty significant arthritus in knees and hips. In spite of all that I am getting close to my rather modest strength goals (intermediate level in your body weight adjusted strength charts).

My first question is about the back squats. Squatting 3 days a week is starting to feel like too much. Progress has slowed to less than ten pounds each month and I hurt a lot - mostly arthritus pain I think. Progress is better and less painful on the other lifts so I am not too concerned about them (the programing that is). So the question is do you recommend changing back squats out for something else on one of my routines, and if so, for what?

My current routines
A
Squat (265x 3sets x 5reps)
Bench (215x3x5)
Dead Lift (275x3x5)
Situps
Pullups (12, 6, 5, 5, 4)

B
Squat
Press (135 x 3 x 5)
Squat-clean ( 155 x 3 x 3)
Situps
Dips (15, 12, 10)

Along the same lines, I consider pullups (muscleups are really the goal) and handstand pushups important. Any advice on adjustments I might make to move the pullups along a little faster (currently adding only 1 or 2 per month and thinking about trying them weighted)?

The doctor said never again to the handstand pushups, but I wonder. My shoulders are taking the presses pretty well. Would you recommend trying the HSPUs, and if so, at what press strength would you risk starting it (I weigh 225) I do hand stands regularily but don't try to dip and press back up.

Any thoughts will be appreciated!

John

[Mark Rippetoe]

If you're 54, you might want to rethink some of these goals. I don't think you have read PPST2, and lots of this stuff is discussed in it. Basically, you're very overtrained. The goal of a muscle up is a foolish thing for a man that has already had shoulder surgery that does not already have a masters gymnastics background. Don't squat 3x/week at your age. Don't do deadlifts in sets across. Dips are fine if they don't hurt. In short, I think you are considering some things as important that will keep you sore, chronically inflamed, overtrained, and therefore unhappy. A big inflammatory load is very hard on old guys like us, much more so than younger trainees. Be very careful with this.

[minadi26]

Rip,

I got my copy of PPST this week and have started reading it. Based on your answer to this over-50 lifter, I started to read ahead to the sections on the Master Lifter and the Intermediate trainee, as I am also an over 50 lifter and have been training according to the SS model.

You state that the over 50 lifter should not squat 3x per week. In your section on the Master Lifter, you suggest that the Texas Method may offer a more suitable training program. The Texas Method does call for squatting 3 times a week, with Monday at high stress & volume, Wednesday at lower stress & volume, and Friday at high stress & low volume. So are you suggesting that this schedule of training would be acceptable for the over 50 lifter rather than the SS schedule?

If you still do not recommend squatting 3x per week, in the section on the Intermediate lifter, you describe the Split Routine Model. This routine calls for squatting twice per week, alternating between heavy and light days. Would this then be the preferred method of training for the older lifter?

Thanks for your input.

[SteamRoxorz]

Don't squat 3x/week at your age.

At what age is 3x/week too much?

What exercises do you currently do and how often?

[Mark Rippetoe]

You state that the over 50 lifter should not squat 3x per week. In your section on the Master Lifter, you suggest that the Texas Method may offer a more suitable training program. The Texas Method does call for squatting 3 times a week, with Monday at high stress & volume, Wednesday at lower stress & volume, and Friday at high stress & low volume. So are you suggesting that this schedule of training would be acceptable for the over 50 lifter rather than the SS schedule?

I think you're referring to my comments on using the TM after a shorter period of linear progression. This version eliminates the light day and just does 2 squat workouts, perhaps changing the 5x5 day into 3x5. This increases the squat only 5 lbs./week, a rate that most guys can sustain for a while.

As for my own training, I'm squatting heavy once/week, pulling heavy once/week, and pressing/dips/benches/chins 2x/week in some combination.

[David Lee]

For a 43-year old doing the split routine as outlined in PPII, would you guess that the five sets across should be reduced to four or three? I'm 6'2" and 240, not eating for wait gain.

Thanks

[rdp]

Rip, please comment on this for another 54 year old:

Mon:
Squat 5x5 (try 5x3?)
Press or Bench Press, 5x3
Chins

Weds:
Squat 5x2, light
Bench Press or Press, 5x3
DL, 5x1

Fri:
Squat 5x1, heavy
Press or Bench Press, 5x3
Chins

Progress is rather slow, but I don't otherwise seem to exhibit symptoms of overtraining, per Chapter 2 of PPST2 (I should sleep more, but training hasn't made it worse).

[Mark Rippetoe]

For a 43-year old doing the split routine as outlined in PPII, would you guess that the five sets across should be reduced to four or three? I'm 6'2" and 240, not eating for wait gain.

If you can't recover from the 5 x 5, cutting them back to 3x is the first thing to try.

Rip, please comment on this for another 54 year old:

Mon:
Squat 5x5 (try 5x3?)
Press or Bench Press, 5x3
Chins

Weds:
Squat 5x2, light
Bench Press or Press, 5x3
DL, 5x1

Fri:
Squat 5x1, heavy
Press or Bench Press, 5x3
Chins

Progress is rather slow, but I don't otherwise seem to exhibit symptoms of overtraining, per Chapter 2 of PPST2 (I should sleep more, but training hasn't made it worse).

Progress may be slow, but if it hasn't stopped, the program is working. The progress should be 5 lbs./week on the squat and DL, less on the presses. What other comments could I make?

[PapaBear59]

As for my own training, I'm squatting heavy once/week, pulling heavy once/week, and pressing/dips/benches/chins 2x/week in some combination.

Just out of curiosity do you still do cleans and if so how often?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I haven't racked a clean since my shoulder surgery, but I snatch about every 3 weeks.