A Question For Coach About Beer

[gamedog]

Specifically, the beer gun and man boobs ;-)

Early on, when I decided to get fit I did the usual thing most men in that position do... We go to the store, buy spinach, kale, steel-cut whole oats and the latest issue of Muscle And Fiction, and we're off to the races.

Read Muscle and Fiction, or any of the other rags out there like Men's Health for example, and sooner or later you're gonna run into tidbits of information like:

- The wheat that beer is brewed from has chemicals in it that look like estrogen
- Consumption of alcohol, even moderate, responsible consumption of alcohol (no more than two twelve-ounce glasses of beer per day) causes growth hormone, and testosterone levels in men to drop
- Beer gives you a gut and man boobs

... and the like.

Now, I fully confess, that when I was living a sedentary life, sitting on my ass all evening drinking a six pack of beer and a few scotch and sodas every night (please note that I NEVER mixed my good, single-malt scotch with ANYTHING, I used my bottom-shelf stuff for the scotch and sodas) I did indeed get a belly, and man boobs.

But they went away once I started exercising hard.

My question refers wholly to the optimal hormone balance for building muscle mass on the Starting Strength Novice Program.

As you know, I am doing the program as laid out. And I'm having great success with it. I also don't drink every day anymore, and I NEVER drink the quantity that I used to when I do drink.

BUT, it'd be damn nice to have a New Castle, or a Guinness or a Grolsch in the evenings after work. Or two, and leave it at that. Will THAT consumption, two beers which most medical folks agree to be healthy and moderate, interfere with my hormonal environment in such a way as would make it less anabolic?

I wanted to ask, to set the record straight on this for myself. I've gotten so much information on this I have no idea what's true and what isn't. And you're a man who likes his Guiness and his Single Malt, and you're also strong as hell and from every picture I've ever seen of you, you don't have a huge-ass belly like I did, no do you have breasts, so I figured I'd ask you.

Thanks again, for your time.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Let's approach this from a strictly empirical standpoint. Virtually every lifter I know, and especially the very fucking strong ones, drinks some form of alcohol. All this theoretical shit aside, it doesn't seem to have adversely affected their training. Alcoholism is a different matter, but the moderate use of alcohol has been a part of training for 90% of the guys who train heavy since the concept was invented. It has been a part of every advanced society on the planet since people started hanging around together. We do it because we like it. I don't care what these fools misconstrue from peer-reviewed studies. Most lifters drink.

If you are concerned with the effects of 2 beers a day on your training, stop drinking and see if you think it makes you stronger. But most of the time this question is asked, it is asked by guys that don't lift heavy anyway and have therefore nothing to adversely affect. It is just one more minor distraction from the bigger picture of training hard, eating enough, and getting recovered so that you can train hard again.

[Dylan Crooks]

Let's approach this from a strictly empirical standpoint. Virtually every lifter I know, and especially the very fucking strong ones, drinks some form of alcohol. All this theoretical shit aside, it doesn't seem to have adversely affected their training. Alcoholism is a different matter, but the moderate use of alcohol has been a part of training for 90% of the guys who train heavy since the concept was invented. It has been a part of every advanced society on the planet since people started hanging around together. We do it because we like it. I don't care what these fools misconstrue from peer-reviewed studies. Most lifters drink.

If you are concerned with the effects of 2 beers a day on your training, stop drinking and see if you think it makes you stronger. But most of the time this question is asked, it is asked by guys that don't lift heavy anyway and have therefore nothing to adversely affect. It is just one more minor distraction from the bigger picture of training hard, eating enough, and getting recovered so that you can train hard again.

I'll drink to that, cheers.

[twindeltatandem]

Coach provided empirical evidence WRT the strong guys out there who have a drink now and then. Let me just say that I'm in Afghanistan right now and I hang out with Afghans all day long. None of them ever drink, and they're all a bunch of fucking pussies. Oh, and by the way, the US Military is the first military in the history of deployed forces to not bring booze along for the fight. How stupid is that?

[The Sun]

I think this is going to answer all of your questions:

http://images.vandm.biz/content/images/800x600/Guinness.jpg

[gamedog]

Thank you Mark, for you feedback and your perspective on this.

Yeah, I definitely don't mean to ask for "a license to drink the clothes off my family's back every evening" or anything like that. And even when I was drinking my heaviest, I never woke up the next day thinking about more booze or anything like that. I was just enjoying my beer and scotch, en-masse. For me it was more "Too much of a good thing with not enough vigorous exercise..."

And I appreciate the fact that you separate the "moderate enjoyment of a good thing" from "the abuse of it" ... A lot of folks simply don't, and they can be very accusatory and at times -at least from my observation- quite irrational.

For me, four beers or more and I get a bad taste in my mouth now-a-days, trouble sleeping and a hangover the next day. But two beers, GOOD beers, consumed in good company, adds a little something to my over-all enjoyment of life. And I don't think that's a bad thing. And it's nice to get a real-world perspective on this issue because there's a lot of folks out there who'd have you believe that a moderate amount of alcohol like that, on a daily basis, could lower your testosterone and growth hormone by up to 70%. Me personally, I believe it'd take A LOT more than that to fuck up the human body, but I'm not a doctor, nor am I a coach...

Anyway, I'm rambling and I'll wrap this up by saying that I'm sticking with your program, as laid out, gallon of whole milk and all, and I'm continuing to add weight to the bar each time out (as well as weight to my frame), and I want to get to the point where I'm lifting heavy. REALLY FUCKING HEAVY. And if the moderate consumption of alcohol, by other men who lift heavy, eat well and sleep well hasn't interfered, then right on.

I'm going to try out a brew called Arrogant Bastard this evening after dinner. Got any recommendations for beer, Mark, anybody else LOL? I also have a bottle of Dalwhinnie that I bought while on my honeymoon with the wife two years ago. I might break the seal on it and have a glass on Saturday evening, the weather is supposed to be nice, I'll be able to sit on my rocking chair on the porch...

[gamedog]

LOL guinness ad FTW right on!

Thanks for the feedback :-) Arrogant Bastard tonight, Guinness tomorrow night.

[celconicuzn]

I'm putting this into the category of the occasional toker. From personal experience and the qualitative observations I've taken from all of the lifters I've ever known, the most successful of them consumed alcohol and did use marijuana from time to time.

It helps me relax, it helps me to enjoy my life, it helps to bring my stress down, helps me to sleep and most of all helps me to partake in the pleasures of life without indulging. As negatively health-affecting as alcohol consumption may be, my personal benefits ^ outweigh any negative effects.

[stickman]

For a long time, my fitness goal was to be able to drink two beers a night without putting on any more weight. I used to do 1000 kcal burns on the elliptical 4 days a week. I'd be falling off the thing with fatigue by the end of a session. Didn't do diddly for my midsection or my weight. After discovering SS my goal changed to getting strong. I continue to drink two beers a night ... my weight has increased - but my belt size has gone down. Let's lift a glass to Coach ...

[ColoWayno]

Guinness man looks sooo happy!

[rick0202]

Coach are you a beer drinker? Gets hot in Texas so I would think beer is a staple. Do you have any favorite brands? Any favorites among the stronger stuff. I have not had a drink in years, damn if I know why, I don't seem any stronger. This thread is making me thirsty.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I am a beer drinker, but I don't know any serious beer geeks that drink because they're thirsty. That's what ice tea and water are for. My most frequently purchased daily beer is Sam Adams Boston Ale, a better product in my opinion than the Boston Lager.

[MikeHawk]

Have you ever considered that your frequent consumption of alcohol may be the cause of your sleeping problems you talk about?

[gamedog]

I had two Dundee's Extra Rich Honey Brown lagers last night. Never had that one before, but it's a damn tasty brew.

A few friends of mine enjoy beers like the Arrogant Bastard, that I tried the other day. They like that one, as well as beers from Magic Hat and Flying Dog. I've tried a few of those, and some were quite good, Tire Bite comes to mind... Others though, we're a bit too hopped up, for my tastes.

I'm sticking with the Guinness, which I'll be drinking tonight, and the Murphys, New Castle, and that Honey Brown beer.

[gamedog]

I am a beer drinker, but I don't know any serious beer geeks that drink because they're thirsty. That's what ice tea and water are for. My most frequently purchased daily beer is Sam Adams Boston Ale, a better product in my opinion than the Boston Lager.

I whole-heartedly agree, about the Boston Ale versus the Boston Lager. Don't get me wrong, I feel that Boston Lager is a good brew, it's what I get anytime I'm out to dinner with the wife and Blue Moon isn't available. BUT the Ale is vastly superior. Trouble is, ALL the liquor stores down here in Lusby MD carry the lager, very few carry the Ale and the ones that do only carry it sporadically.

[Mouse]

I'm sticking with the Guinness, which I'll be drinking tonight, and the Murphys, New Castle, and that Honey Brown beer.

Do you mean this :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/NewkieBrownAleUSImport.JPG/175px-NewkieBrownAleUSImport.JPG

If so, it's Newcastle, you don't want to be upsetting any Geordies :D

[gamedog]

Do you mean this :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/NewkieBrownAleUSImport.JPG/175px-NewkieBrownAleUSImport.JPG

If so, it's Newcastle, you don't want to be upsetting any Geordies :D

That's the one, Newcastle, and you're absolutely right, I don't want to offend anybody.

P.S. ... last night, I was making black & tans with Newcastle and Murphy's Irish Stout ;-)

[DaveSev]

You guys should appreciate this picture I took of my fridge...I sent it to my lifting buddy and fellow beer enthusiast. It pretty much captures my life.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4540/0524101234.jpg

12.99 bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve (delicious BTW)

14.99 30 pack of Natty Light

2 gallons whole milk

[The Sun]

You guys should appreciate this picture I took of my fridge...I sent it to my lifting buddy and fellow beer enthusiast. It pretty much captures my life.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4540/0524101234.jpg

12.99 bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve (delicious BTW)

14.99 30 pack of Natty Light

2 gallons whole milk
I never could understand why Chimay and other "special" beers are such a big deal. I guess I'm not enthusiastic enough.

I rather go for any Stout instead of these.

Question to Rip:

I thought you were a Stout drinker as well. now I see you drink Ale. My heart is broken.

[gamedog]

I enjoy Chimay from time to time. But sometimes the specialty brews are too rich for my blood, that's the only thing. Usually Guinness and/or Murphys are at the top of my budget, and if I do have some extra dough, I'll take Wolaver's Oatmeal Stout over Chimay and most of the others.

http://www.theperfectlyhappyman.com/uploads/galleries/wolaver039s-oatmeal-stout/wolavers-oatmeal-stout-2.jpg

YUMMMAY!

... Since I'm drinking in moderation now LOL I can afford Newcastle, or Grolsch. When I was drinking heavily, before, I had to restrict my intake to National Bohemian LOL. I've sort of evolved to where I pick quality over quantity. Guess I'm not a bachelor, anymore :-D

[DaveSev]

Now that I'm trying to work out my love handles for beach season I'm going with quality over quantity. That was my first time drinking a Chimay, it was good like I said but I actually think I prefer some brews from Unibroue, and they are much cheaper. I love those strong Belgian Ales though.

I haven't had a lot of porters/stouts, even though my favorite beer - Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald - is a porter. I'm only 21 so I haven't been buying nice beer for a long time. Usually just cheap shit to "get the job done". The only hardcore stout I've had was Old Rasputin and that was a bit heavy for me, though I did manage to finish the bottle.

That's the good thing about beer though...there's just so much variety out there. Style for everyone.

[stef]

I thought you were a Stout drinker as well. now I see you drink Ale. My heart is broken.

Who drinks only one style of only one category of Deliciousness?

And Rip currently has Murphy's and Guinness in his "icebox". Does that make you feel a little bit better?

[The Sun]

Who drinks only one style of only one category of Deliciousness?

And Rip currently has Murphy's and Guinness in his "icebox". Does that make you feel a little bit better?
Yes, Status Que has been preserved.

[L_D]

Question to Rip:

I thought you were a Stout drinker as well. now I see you drink Ale. My heart is broken.

But stout is a style of ale, so hopefully your heart is mended.