The Blind Lead the Willing

[stef]

by Mark Rippetoe

Any degree program that claims to prepare the student for more than just a graduate program in the same discipline must be commercially relevant, and this is defined by the terminal application of the material. So it is hardly surprising that machine-based isolation exercise is what you learn in school, what you’re tested on in school, what you are certified in by the NSCA/ACSM/AFAA/IDEA/ACE/ETC., and therefore what you think you know to be correct.

Full article (http://startingstrength.com/articles/blind_lead_rippetoe.pdf)

Resources Page (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources)

[burnsco]

Enjoyed the article.

I know all to well what it's like to work out in the modern "gym". 95% of the equipment I don't use, and the stuff I do use is falling apart. It's very frustrating as I've went to gyms all across town and they're all the same!

I envy people who have access to real gyms like mark's in their area.

[Koalala]

I think the general public is smarter than we think they are.
People are not impressed by 180kg Quarter squats on the smith.

Barbell exercises look more impressive and even for someone who has never done them it is easy to figure out that correct barbell movements display more strength than machines isolation.

[tnumrych]

My favorite article to date. I completely share the views contained within. I just wish I was exposed to the "truth" before I got my degrees in Ex Sci and S&C and armed with an idealistic vision that "I will change how things are done!!!".

[gzt]

I think the general public is smarter than we think they are.
People are not impressed by 180kg Quarter squats on the smith.

Barbell exercises look more impressive and even for someone who has never done them it is easy to figure out that correct barbell movements display more strength than machines isolation.
This is true. People sometimes ask me about what I did to get this much bigger or what I do at the gym and I tell them I do barbell training, mostly centered on squatting, and they uniformly are at least mildly impressed and remark how they usually stick to machines because they're afraid of landing on their face with the bench or getting crushed on the squat or whatever and acknowledge that real barbell training seems beastly.

[78704]

"Unless you get really really serious and build your own gym at a considerable expense – and therefore at considerable risk to yourself financially – you are going to be training in a facility owned by someone or something else."

"The only reason for the accommodation [barbell, power rack] is the fact that the equipment is cheap to buy and maintain, takes up little room..."

These statements contradict one another; obviously it's the first one that's false; barbell and plates are cheap, especially if you're willing to shop craigslist. A home gym can be cheaper than a year's dues.

[Carlos Daniel]

I think the general public is smarter than we think they are.
People are not impressed by 180kg Quarter squats on the smith.

Barbell exercises look more impressive and even for someone who has never done them it is easy to figure out that correct barbell movements display more strength than machines isolation.

I think you are right, people usually find a heavy deadlift to be impressive and quite serious business (even not so heavy, my mere 280 pounds turned some heads at the gym the other day) but for some obscure reason they never end up deadlifting. Besides the fact that the PT never teach it to their trainees, is there any other reason for that?

[Hawkpeter]

One additional aspect that the article did not address is how the commercial fitness industry has convinced almost everyone that the only way they will open a gym and get insured is to hold one of the industry certifications. This is bogus. With some investigation and a background in coaching Track and Field, Gymnastics and Olympic Weightlifting I opened my gym 13 months ago with a few things in mind.

a) that it would not match the commercial business model and therefore I had to do a lot of re-educating of members as they began so I could create an actual membership base that could use the barbell based gym that I had opened.

b) I had to make it competitively priced. So the coaching is free, and after several weeks, with their programming taken care of for them and the basic software package developed, they need less and less time being coached and they're making sound progress. They quickly realize how much better off they are. The only competition is the local Crossfit gyms and they are extremely expensive and therefore preclude those who need it most.

c) Make it an open gym with no classes. People can come in when they like, they get coached and programmed for free and pay to be a member. Half the members are athletes and the other half are regular recreational lifters. The focus is on strength development primarily but for the athletes the programming addresses their conditioning requirements as well.


Physically its very tough on me, several days a week I'm coaching from 6am to 9pm. But everyone is getting stronger and none of them have gone back to the regular fitness industry model. Its a slow silent war and eventually I will win.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Koalala,


Have you been to a commercial gym in the past 20 years?

[WaWa Bird]

As someone that puked working out today (first time prowler sprints). It completely sucks. I wasted food which I can't afford to do right now. Also I've felt like crap all day. Never think that puking equals success, because it effects recovery too much..

[Mark Rippetoe]

"Unless you get really really serious and build your own gym at a considerable expense – and therefore at considerable risk to yourself financially – you are going to be training in a facility owned by someone or something else."

"The only reason for the accommodation [barbell, power rack] is the fact that the equipment is cheap to buy and maintain, takes up little room..."

These statements contradict one another; obviously it's the first one that's false; barbell and plates are cheap, especially if you're willing to shop craigslist. A home gym can be cheaper than a year's dues.

You think that what is a "considerable expense" for an individual would also be a lot of money for Bally's or 24HourFatness? I think not, sir. I laugh at your mistake now: ha.

[simonsky]

why laugh at the expense of people who are afraid of dogs such as me =(

anyway, i cannot imagine how the F any "trainer" can induce trainee vomiting using machines unless the trainer punches him while he is doing the pec deck.
may you elaborate on that rip?

[tallison]

It strikes me that what is going on here is largely a user interface problem. You've got these artificial systems for improving strength (I include all forms of training with equipment, here, the "natural" systems for achieving a 400 lb squat were often brutal and deadly to most participants) and you've got motivation to be strong on a lot of peoples' part, but the interfaces available just don't work for them.

Think about it, even with the absolute miracle of an owner's manual that is "Starting Strength" most of us struggle, without one-on-one coaching attention, to get the lifts right, make steady progress and avoid injury.

So, pre-"Starting Strength", Author Jones comes along and makes the resistance-training interface vastly more "usable" and makes a shit-load of money. Usability ain't everything, though -- there's also usefulness. But that increase in usability and the apparently self-contained nature of the machines (no need for coaching) was certainly a winning formula. The motivation was there. The problem was, it turns out, the equipment was not all that effective in terms of helping people actually get stronger.

This has been bad on several fronts -- IF Nautilus had been effective at getting vast numbers of people through their novice phase and making them very substantially strong, then the need for coaches might well have *increased* instead of decreased as folks advanced beyond the simplest programs and began to apply their strength. Instead, we've got this whole frustrating de-skilling of the fitness industry since the only real demand is basically at the used-car salesman/woman front-end of selling memberships to folks who you count on to not really get anywhere with their programs and to drop out, thus making room for selling more memberships than there's equipment or space to actually accommodate.

The dream of Nautilus machines for the "end-user" dies hard, but that's because there's a part of it that *is* very attractive (people just getting started really do need an approachable small set of things to worry about -- or a lot of time on their hands and at least one buddy to tackle it with). I think you (Rip) have done an incredible job of both dismantling the usefulness of machines-that-control-things-too-much and describing alternative exercises in great detail that are clearly effective. Now, what if you could do something to "simplify the interface", so to speak, for beginners on the core lifts, *even further*, without abandoning the advantages of the free weight system?

I think we may well "have the technology". Take the squat, for example: you've analyzed the fuck out of that exercise. Could you now use that knowledge and all the new whiz-bang sensors that are becoming common-place these days in mobile phones and other gadgets to offer a system that gives the lifter feedback on: 1) knees parallel to feet 2) hips below knees at the bottom and 3) bar path perpendicular to floor over the mid-foot? (I could be wrong, but according to my analysis, if I could be sure of those three points, I'd have good form on my squats.) Imagine through tones or immediate visible feedback (goggles, maybe?) that I could *know* whether I was going deep enough -- or whether I was keeping my knees out -- or whether the bar path was straight?

You often complain about people over-complicating things and I can just imagine the snorting or laughter at my over-the-top tech-geek suggestion, here. But just imagine a world where you've made a gazillion selling Rippetoe-Suits for novice trainees and can focus your time either on more advanced issues of coaching or just hanging out with all the thankful - and now also strong and useful - folks you've helped to make that way.

The "artificial"/machine part of modern fitness training isn't the problem. (I've got other arguments against artifice that enhances strength, as opposed to simply guiding training/performance.) Nearly everything we do these days has a layer of human-made interface/artifice. It's whether or not that interface is useable and useful that is the question - and there's no reason an excellent interface like the bar, the weights, the rack and the bench can't be improved upon.

[Koalala]

Koalala,


Have you been to a commercial gym in the past 20 years?

Yes still am.
In my opion the general crowd is not stupid just misinformed.
They don't train with barbells because(atleast in my gym) the empoyees classify them as dangerous and not usefull.

[FatButWeak]

You think that what is a "considerable expense" for an individual would also be a lot of money for Bally's or 24HourFatness? I think not, sir. I laugh at your mistake now: ha.

78704 is a horse's ass. Obviously the expense of opening one's own gym is not limited to garage quality rack, bench, plate and bar; it's not even limited to gym quality racks, benches, plates and bars. The expense of opening a gym that's "experimental" in that it deviates from the industry standard that Rip explained to us comes from: signing a one year commercial lease; not working anywhere else for one year; liability insurance; workers' compensation insurance for employees; employees; housekeeping; business licenses to city, county, state etc.; signage; electricity; heating/cooling; computers; cash registers; credit card servicers; checking accounts/accountants; payroll expenses; advertising; FINALLY gym quality equptment that can withstand use by people who don't own it, etc., all with no guarantee (or perhaps, even a reasonable likelihood) of the light of financial success at the end of the tunnel. The costs of the iron are only a small (yet necessary) piece of an otherwise very large, expensive and cumbersome puzzle.

Rip is not wrong. You are.

-RNS1 (Rip Nut Swinger #1)

[Kyle Aaron]

These statements contradict one another; obviously it's the first one that's false; barbell and plates are cheap, especially if you're willing to shop craigslist. A home gym can be cheaper than a year's dues.
I don't think he was talking about setting up a home gym, but a mainstream commercial gym vs a more traditional gym. What you need for your own workouts at home is not much, what you need if you want to coach lots of other people and make money from it is considerably more. For example, the gym building itself...

[Monster]

The article is clear and lays out the situation plainly. High quality writing.

[Carlos Daniel]

Yes still am.
In my opion the general crowd is not stupid just misinformed.
They don't train with barbells because(atleast in my gym) the empoyees classify them as dangerous and not usefull.

One could argue that it is stupid to not look for better sources than mr."I-got-my-certification-from-a-cereal-box-and-look-like-an-underwear-model".

[gzt]

Another thing is that $2000 for an individual for their own personal use is usually a relatively significant expense. For Bally's, that's less than they spend on a treadmill. They have 20 treadmills. And 20 ellipticals. And 20 bikes.

[Mr.City]

What I like about Rip's article is that clearly defines people who merely want to play the role of a badass versus actually being one. For example, real badasses aren't afraid of barbell squats and deadlifts and dogs. Pretend badasses are afraid of all those. Pretend badasses also like to flex their abs and their biceps in one of the many gym mirrors to show off just how "ripped" they are.

[51M0n]

I think we may well "have the technology". .

Lol, Starting Strength 2100, instead of a book you'll get a holographic Ripptoe telling you to stop being a pussy and start squatting.

Fantastic article by the way. I'm lucky, while my gym has the normal cardio area and weight machine room, it also has a dedicated heavy weights room with power-racks, bands, chains ect, and the owner and a lot of the staff are powerlifters.

[Jason B]

Things are slowly turning around for those willing to open their eyes. There are lots of great small gyms opening up all around the country, you just have to look to find them. You don't have to train in commercial gym hell if you don't want to.

Being a member of the NSCA in pursuit of my CSCS (hey, they are still a major presence in the industry and having those letters after your name looks good to clients, call it selling out I don't care, you have to attract people before you can train them), I can say that even this mainstream org is slowly coming around, you see more and more articles about basic lifts, sets of 5, building strength for athletes, chains and bands, etc. A lot of it is misguided and not implemented properly, but it's a start. There's still plenty of politically correct academia crap of course, but I think we're going in the right direction.