Did not do the program properly, went into intermediate programming to quick... Stuck

[Jimmy Hard]

As the title says, I started the program of Kethnabb version of Starting Strength last June ( I know this is not the version that Rip supports. ) I did not eat enough, or eat at all and was very light ( still am light, but not as bad. ) I did gain body weight quickly on the program even though I was eating very little. However because of this lack of nutrition, I stopped gaining weight, and stalled in about 4 months. Did not get my lifts high either ( lifts were really bad for a stall this big. ) For two months I was in constant deloads, expecting to push through but never did. Then eventually I was recommended Texas Method, and GOMAD. I did GOMAD and the Texas Method in December, and quickly added 20 lbs to all of my lifts. ( I credited to Texas Method, but in reality it was probably the extra food and GOMAD that did it. ) Then I got sick, and was out for a week and lost alot of weight, and gained very slow until about February. Although I was doing GOMAD I didn't gain much weight, after that because I still didn't eat all that much... and my lifts progress was very very slow and in some lifts didn't really progress at all. By mid-April I reached my pr's, and since then have stopped lifting for 2 weeks, been on deloads... tried changing routines to madcow ( which didn't do anything... most likely because I'm not ready for it. ) and have actually declined in progress.



Now for the TL,DR... Did Starting Strength, didn't eat enough switched to Texas Method ( when I close to being an intermediate. ) and GOMADED. Made quick progress. Got sick. Stalled. Made way to slow progress, Stalled. Stuck. Declining.



Now onto my stats ( which are horrible. )

Age:16
Height:5 foot 5
Weight:136 lbs

PRS

Squat: 185 3X5 ( As horrible as that is, for the time I have been lifting... I do have to unrack the barbell from a low position because I have sawhorses and I do squat completely ATG. Probably would get 205 lbs 3X5 If I squatted to only parallel. )

Bench Press: 140 lbs 3X5 ( Terrible, but care more about dead, squat, press.)

Deadlift: 225 lbs 1X5 ( This is an estimate because I haven't done deadlifts for a set of 5, in a while... pretty damn bad, though.)

Military Press: 95 lbs 3X5 ( Declining hard on this. )

Power Cleans: 115 lbs 5x5 ( Bad, but I didn't do power cleans until maybe about February. )

Pull-Ups 3X10

Dips 3X12.


As you can see my lifts are terrible, for as long as I have been training. I've been getting around 3,000 calories a day since about February ( not GOMADING anymore, but get about 1/2 a gallon a day. ) Sleep I try and get 8 hours a day, and usually do... also I'm not a guy who adds in a bunch of isolation ( have added none actually. )


I'm actually wondering why I can't progress and why I am completely horrible when it comes to lifting. Reading these forums I see people who have been working in like 6 weeks, getting to where I am at in like 48 weeks. It is frustrating to try hard at something and just be a complete failure, and it is even worse when you just completely do nothing for two months at a time and not only not get better, but just get worse. It's alot of wasted time and disappointment.

Looking around and reading logs and seeing people on Starting Strength squatting 300 lbs, just makes me feel like a failure to lifting in general, and I really want to turn this around.




So here is the question... what would you do, if you saw a person like me walk into your gym? Would you have me stop for a period of time? Put me on Starting Strength? Advanced Novice Program? Do I start them at a deload? Am I a lost cause?

How much calories should I get a day?


Also another thing... but if I make no progress, or really slow progress on a program that is set around making slow linear gains... while eating 3,000 calories and getting 8 hours sleep. How the hell am I supposed to put 5 lbs a week on my lifts on Starting Strength? That's the reason why I aren't just jumping right in.


- Thanks, please help... I need it.

[Jimmy Hard]

Also before I get stop being a pussy, and just lift. I have been... with the way I have wasted months doing nothing ( because of my own mistakes. ) I could have quit by now and been in the same place.


But because I enjoy doing this, and want to progress I have chosen not to give in, and to admit my flaws on this forum and prepare to work harder and smarter to fix my problems.

[Mr.City]

I would eat more, a lot more, and go back to linear progression.

[skills101]

Just go back to SS and make all the linear gains you can.



Weight:136 lbs

( not GOMADING anymore, but get about 1/2 a gallon a day. )

These things need to change. No one ever got very strong weighing 136#.

[Tfin]

First of all, I'm not a coach or even an advanced lifter for that matter. I have been lifting for quite some time just doing bullshit mainly. I did starting strength for a bit a couple of years ago and just recently coma back to SS to get everything out of linear progression that I can. All of that to recommend that you start back over with SS and do it right. Eat 3,000 calories and then add gomad on top of that. I think you would benefit greatly from getting everything you can out of linear progression and to do that you have to eat and gain weight. You are 16 and you weigh 136 lbs right? You couldn't possibly began to have stalled because of the loads being too much to recover from but you weren't recovering because you weren't eating enough. Not being a dick but why is eating so hard for you? I know you probably have school and you are still reliant on somebody else (parents) for food but you have summer break and peanut butter sandwiches (they go great with milk). Anyway if you have food questions, ask around on here. John Sheaffer has a great nutrition forum on here.
As far as starting over, don't worry so much about a de-load but start off with weights that will allow you to hit your current pr's in 4-6 weeks. That's what I did and it worked great. Some people may disagree but its all about getting stronger and that will give you a great ramp up. Anyway, that's my two cents. If you have any questions pm me or hop on over to my log. Obviously you aren't scared of hard work and will power isn't the problem. Keep working hard and best of luck.

[TTT]

why are you even counting calories?

eat.
always.

"YOU" should never be seen without food in your hand.
doesn't matter what it is.
if it's eadible, then eat it.
meat, bread, milk, eggs, chocolate, lettuce, pasta...
anything, and everything.

you are also only 16.
so 16 and 136 lbs you are obviously a slim build naturally.
so don't even worry about getting fat.


EAT! and do SS.

That's all you need to do for about a year.
forget about going to TM or anything else.

don't be an overthinker.. we have too many here already.

3 sets of 5 reps for everything except deads and cleans.
deads 1 set of 5
cleans 5 sets of 3

just do it as described and EAT!

[confuzzl3don3]

As has been said. Just do SS and this time FREAKING EAT!

That is all. Good luck :D

[MrMarbles]

"It is frustrating to try hard at something and just be a complete failure..."

Why am I apparently the only one here thinking that this is a load of BS? Im not saying Ive gone through this program without unnecessary experimentation but something is amiss here. I seriously doubt how credible your dedication to training is.

What everyone is failing to tell you is that this program doesn't take just your supposed 'dedication' but money also (generally in the form of a credit card-to buy the book) for milk and food. Just buy the book. Forgo gomad and training for a while if you have to and save for it and get someone to buy it for you. A version you read off the internet and a few form videos you watch on youtube isnt enough. It is smarter to do this carefully than to fuck around in the gym, hurt yourself with bad form and suffer in training there on.

[Alyion]

Sounds to me like you did too much and didn't eat enough - what exactly did you do when you ran SS and what did you eat first time? Did you do any cardio or additional exercises as you sound asw though you could be bordering on overtrained

[Eanderson]

First of all, you haven't failed yet because you are still lifting.

Second of all, you are 16 and 135lbs. I grew 3 inches and 35lbs after that age without any lifting at all.

At your age, you literally have natural steroids flowing through your veins. Take advantage of all the free testosterone, do GOMAD+3-4K calories and get back on the novice progression (deload like 20% for your starting weights). Post videos in technique forum, etc.

I promise that if you are faithful on the novice progression, you will get strong.

P.S. If you do GOMAD, you are getting 2,400kcal just from that. Are you really eating only 600 calories from food??

[gzt]

Buy the book. Trust me on this one. Read it. You are undoubtedly messing up your form. My squat is in the mid 400s and I need to review the book every once in a while. It's like $29.99 or something. I know it's kind of annoying that everybody's answer to questions about the program is to buy the book because everybody everywhere wants you to buy something. Okay, you can disregard this advice. The other solution is to get somebody to coach you. That usually costs more. But it's very hard to use Rippetoe's templates for squat progress if you're doing high bar ATG squats.

Second, squatting off sawhorses is hardcore. Life is easier with a power rack or squat stands. I'm not going to tell you to get a rack or squat stands. I am going to tell you that these things make a difference.

Third, why the hell have you not done deadlifts lately? Deadlifts are awesome. They're also the lift that skinny teenagers naturally blow up on. The last powerlifting meet I was at, there was a skinny 165# teen who squatted 275# but deadlifted 500#. Holy crap!

Fourth, holy crap, you're 16. You should be able to eat an entire large pizza in one sitting. Don't give me this crap about eating only 3000 calories per day. You need to eat a lot more. I remember when I was sixteen. I could eat a lot.

Anyway, given how short and small you are, unless your family is kind of short and small, you might just be a little bit of a late bloomer. In that case, you might not yet be able to gain strength and size as optimally as the stereotypical teen can. You might have to progress more like a pre-teen, which means slowly.

If, however, you're from a family of midgets and grew a few inches in the last year, eat like it's your day job and pound away at the SS progression. If you get less than 4500 calories before milk every day, you get no more advice.

[SeanL]

Easy fix! Relax. Worry about progressing, not how much you're lifting.
Start over with SS but...

1. Eat 2lbs protein EVERY FREAKING DAY!
2. Eat 1 dozen eggs EFD!<see above
3. GOMAD! Seriously. Even better GOMAD with raw natural milk or heavy cream milk from the "health food store"
4. Round it out with good carbs. Really I don't care what kind of carbs, but probably best if you stick with higher quality foods.
5. Relax and let it happen. You are 16, highly unlikely to need deloads, etc. just do the work and eat the food and you'll be a monster in no time.

Buy SS and PP immediately

[poopmonkey]

Second, squatting off sawhorses is hardcore.


... until you start using "well I squat off sawhorses" as an excuse as to why you can only squat 185 lbs.

;)

[Spaceboy]

like everyone else said...you're only 16, eat more so you can grow in all directions.

[Patrick L.]

I am not going to parrot the excellent advice already given here but I have a couple additional comments.

- Do the program exactly as Rip prescribes. There is no reason to mess around with it. For now, forget Madcow, forget texas method...forget them all until you are SURE you are ready for an intermediate program. I have a feeling that you are not ready at all. One of the most common mistakes is lifters make the switch to an intermediate program prematurely. Everyone loves to say they are doing "texas method" but no one likes to say they are doing the "novice routine". Screw that. The novice program, especially considering your stats and age, is your friend.

-Eat everything under the sun and GOMAD is a must for you. Big Macs and Quarter Pounders are your allies. Don't worry about fat or fearing you wont get a "six pack".

-GZT is completely correct. Buy the books, yesterday...

[Chewie_jrc]

Damn I'm envious of you. I wish I found SS at 16! And kudos to you for sifting through all of the silly fucking bullshit out there and sticking to this program.

But to echo the others, if you want to be successfull do the following:

Buy the book
Read said book
Begin the program as prescribed (with the proper weights, form, etc)
Eat 3-4k calories and drink a Gallon Of Milk a Day (GOMAD)
Smile as you grow, get stronger, and more powerful.
Dont give up. Post form videos here occasionally if you cant afford a coach. Get a summer job to help pay for food, milk, whatever.
Best of luck.

[Jimmy Hard]

Buy the book. Trust me on this one. Read it. You are undoubtedly messing up your form. My squat is in the mid 400s and I need to review the book every once in a while. It's like $29.99 or something. I know it's kind of annoying that everybody's answer to questions about the program is to buy the book because everybody everywhere wants you to buy something. Okay, you can disregard this advice. The other solution is to get somebody to coach you. That usually costs more. But it's very hard to use Rippetoe's templates for squat progress if you're doing high bar ATG squats.

Second, squatting off sawhorses is hardcore. Life is easier with a power rack or squat stands. I'm not going to tell you to get a rack or squat stands. I am going to tell you that these things make a difference.

Third, why the hell have you not done deadlifts lately? Deadlifts are awesome. They're also the lift that skinny teenagers naturally blow up on. The last powerlifting meet I was at, there was a skinny 165# teen who squatted 275# but deadlifted 500#. Holy crap!

Fourth, holy crap, you're 16. You should be able to eat an entire large pizza in one sitting. Don't give me this crap about eating only 3000 calories per day. You need to eat a lot more. I remember when I was sixteen. I could eat a lot.

Anyway, given how short and small you are, unless your family is kind of short and small, you might just be a little bit of a late bloomer. In that case, you might not yet be able to gain strength and size as optimally as the stereotypical teen can. You might have to progress more like a pre-teen, which means slowly.

If, however, you're from a family of midgets and grew a few inches in the last year, eat like it's your day job and pound away at the SS progression. If you get less than 4500 calories before milk every day, you get no more advice.

Well yeah my family is full of short people, also my voice changed when I was like 13. So I doubt thats the problem.


Also, 4500 calories before milk ... that's completely ridiculous. I'm going to be honest with you, not to sound like a ***** but I don't think I could actually do that, if I was to spend a whole day just sitting down and eating and doing nothing else that would be like 6700 calories. Again I don't want to sound like a ***** but it literally takes me a long time to eat and I don't know how to cook either. Getting 4000 calories with milk alone was really hard and not really sustainable for a long period of time for me. I don't have enough money to constantly get mcdonalds or anything, and nobody else will cook any sort of food for me with that much calories and even if they did it would take me hours to eat that, hell I have a hard time eating just a ******* quater pounder and large fries ( yes I am serious. ) Back in the day like 4 or 5 years ago I literally would probably eat maybe a pop tart, a sandwich, and a hamburger for a day and sometimes not even that much. Eating 4000 calories felt like a full time job, and like I said I wouldn't even know how to afford, or cook it.

Also I do deadlift, but I never did a 5rep set in a while is what I said in the original post. My deadlift though like all my lifts is ****, and there are somewhere out there, a hot looking girl that can probably beat me out, sadly.

Also I squat low bar, but do go ATG and do go very deep. If you have the book figure 53, sort of deep. Although I don't really think I am relaxing my hamstrings.




Damn I'm envious of you. I wish I found SS at 16! And kudos to you for sifting through all of the silly fucking bullshit out there and sticking to this program.

But to echo the others, if you want to be successfull do the following:

Buy the book
Read said book
Begin the program as prescribed (with the proper weights, form, etc)
Eat 3-4k calories and drink a Gallon Of Milk a Day (GOMAD)
Smile as you grow, get stronger, and more powerful.
Dont give up. Post form videos here occasionally if you cant afford a coach. Get a summer job to help pay for food, milk, whatever.
Best of luck.

I bought and read the book.

Began the program.

Ate 4,000 calories for two weeks and gained 4 lbs, during that time I added 0 lbs to any of my lifts.As a matter of fact, I had actually kept getting weaker on my squats and losing reps. Then I went and started muay thai, didn't eat as much and for whatever the reason the next week I wound up adding 15 lbs to my squat, and added weight to all of my other lifts other then Military Press.

I got up to squatting 200 lbs 3x5 ( terrible I know. ) then I got stuck again, and then wound up squatting 205 lbs 5/5/3, 2 reps ( Failed horribly thought it was just a bad day so I decided to try it again on Monday. ) Then a 5/3 and I just said **** it. And now, after a week of gaining on all my lifts and quickly. I am becoming weaker again...


The sad part is, my lifts aren't even close to good... and not only do I not get stronger, but I actually get weaker somehow.


Reading around on these forums, and seeing peoples progress compared to mine actually pisses me off. Seeing that if you don't add 100 lbs to your squat in a few months means your doing the program wrong, kind of pisses me off because. In all honesty... I don't think I ever came close to a period of time of sustained success when it came to adding weight on my lifts except for in the first month. Then I always get stuck, somehow randomly blast through getting stuck. Add 15 lbs, then get stuck again for like months. Then add another 15 lbs to my lifts, and again get stuck for months.

I don't even think it's possible for me to have ever kept adding weight onto the bar other then for the first month.

[Jimmy Hard]

Am I missing something in here to make progress?

1) I sleep 8 hours.

2) Don't do drugs

3) Try to get 3000-4000 calories a day ( Like I said before had 4000+ for two weeks and still didn't get my lifts up, although I gained 4 lbs. )

4) The only other things I do besides starting strength is Muay Thai.

5) I'm not one of those kids who adds isolations into it.

6) I'm trying. When I fail, it's because I get stuck on the lifts and have to dump.

7) I can't say that it's being weak minded, if I was... I would have quit lifting all together a long time ago.


Is there something else I am missing that I am supposed to be doing to make any progress?

[ILiftAlone]

Are you missing something? Really? You cant figure out from these 2 pages of sound advice, from people who did/are doing the program, that you need to be doing linear progress and eating more?

Your missing the advice you need to hear in hopes of hearing what you want to hear.

[Jimmy Hard]

Are you missing something? Really? You cant figure out from these 2 pages of sound advice, from people who did/are doing the program, that you need to be doing linear progress and eating more?

Your missing the advice you need to hear in hopes of hearing what you want to hear.


I am trying to do linear progress, and like I said I did eat 4000+ calories for two weeks and it didn't do anything.

[ILiftAlone]

4000 isnt that much, especially for a teenager.

[gzt]

Okay, we're going to have to brainstorm for you methods of eating more. I know you think 4000+ didn't work for you, but it really should, so we're going to suggest it again. Maybe we should start conservative with 3000 calories of food (not milk). Can you eat that much food in a day? Can you figure out how to eat that much food in a day? Can you then add a gallon of milk on top? Can you do that for a month and try linear progression at the same time? And are you still getting extraneous and inexplicable depth on your squats?

I know you're not trying to be difficult, but it's hard to convey the importance of this stuff over the internet. It's hard to imagine squatting heavy weight until you see somebody squat with 6 wheels. It's hard to imagine eating a lot until you see somebody casually eat a large pizza in 10 minutes.

[jerji]

I was at equilibrium at 118lb and 5'10" when I was 21, so my natural lack of desire/need to eat definitely surpasses yours and I've overcome it (I'm up to 152 now-- targeting 175 or so as I have a very narrow frame and don't wanna look like a freak).

For me, eating is way harder than the lifting. I've just never really cared that much about food so most of my efforts to get stronger are focused on the will power to try to stuff as much food as I can down my face. I've been eating so much that I basically *never* want to eat anything and at I just dread eating at this point. If you don't ever feel nauseous from overeating, then you're probably not eating enough.

That being said, there's a bunch of stuff you can do to put down the calories. Just to toss an idea into the hat along with gzt's theme, try eating a shitload of peanut butter whenever you can. One tablespoon alone is about 90 calories so adding a PB&J sandwich snack per day could have a significant impact. Almond butter is pretty good too. You can mix up an ~800cal shake pretty easily with just whole milk, almond butter, and a banana (add some protein powder for more win).

I think one important thing to mention is that the more you stuff your face, the more you'll be able to eat since your stomach will expand, so consuming high amounts of calories get increasingly more feasible.

[scoppi]

you need to eat. is eating 7000 calories/day daunting? yes. too bad. figure out a way to do it, and do it. here are some foods that helped me:

for breakfast i cracked an egg into a glass, added 2-3 tbsp of heavy whipping cream, took the shot, and repeated for a total of 6-8 eggs. thats 1200 calories. the best thing about this, is that its not even that filling.

4 hours later i had a stouffers large chicken pot pie. this is again around 1100 calories.

for a mid afternoon snack, i had a large shake, the base being either ice cream or coconut cream, 60g of whey protein, some fruits, and whole milk. again, calories are around 1200.

i then ate a pretty healthy dinner that consisted of lots of red meat and vegetables. probably around 600 cal.

my favorite nighttime snack was a 20 piece of mcdonald chicken nuggets. probably 1000 calories.

during all of this i drank a half gallon of chocolate milk. which is about 2000 calories.

grand total: 7100 calories

its not about doing what this guy did:
http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/training-articles/building-mass-and-strength-part-1/

its about choosing the HIGHEST CALORIE FOODS YOU CAN POSSIBLY FIND, and eating them. get 2-3x your bodyweight in grams of protein, eat 5-6000 calories, squat, deadlift, and bench heavy, and you will get big and strong.

note: once your linear progression starts slowing down, you'll want to adjust your diet so youre not putting on excess fat. but at 136, you need to get to 170 before this should enter your mind. im 5'6-7" and 185 lbs. i was 150 before i started lifting.

[Bahadur]

First of all, you haven't failed yet because you are still lifting.

Second of all, you are 16 and 135lbs. I grew 3 inches and 35lbs after that age without any lifting at all.

At your age, you literally have natural steroids flowing through your veins. Take advantage of all the free testosterone, do GOMAD+3-4K calories and get back on the novice progression (deload like 20% for your starting weights). Post videos in technique forum, etc.

I promise that if you are faithful on the novice progression, you will get strong.

P.S. If you do GOMAD, you are getting 2,400kcal just from that. Are you really eating only 600 calories from food??

+100000 to this.

I know this isnt the intent of the OP, but threads like this make this 36 yr old male who just discovered SS mad like Hulk. Wasted so much of my 'formative' lifting years not eating (was a vegetarian for the bulk of it, for f*ck's sake) and doing SillyBull$hit.

Take advantage of your age. Heck, even if you aren't lifting for gains, at 16 you should be eating. A lot. And then more.
GOMAD. Double Cheesburgers from McDonald's. Nightly snacks of peanut-butter and whatever (banana, Nutella, jelly, honey) sandwhiches with a tall glass of ice cold milk. Do it. Just do it. Don't end up like me, regretting the missed opportunity of natural steriods and youth.

Also get the book.

[kopp]

Am I missing something in here to make progress?

1) I sleep 8 hours.

2) Don't do drugs

3) Try to get 3000-4000 calories a day ( Like I said before had 4000+ for two weeks and still didn't get my lifts up, although I gained 4 lbs. )

4) The only other things I do besides starting strength is Muay Thai.

5) I'm not one of those kids who adds isolations into it.

6) I'm trying. When I fail, it's because I get stuck on the lifts and have to dump.

7) I can't say that it's being weak minded, if I was... I would have quit lifting all together a long time ago.


Is there something else I am missing that I am supposed to be doing to make any progress?

Dude, relax. Think long term. Two weeks is a negligible amount of time, if you have actually read people's log's you'll realize everybody has down periods. Think long term. You're lifts aren't terrible considering how small you are, especially if you went into it totally untrained. Yes, eat more. Possess a go-getter attitude. Stop complaining. If you have to "start over"-whatever that actually means-it's not a big deal, keep lifting, stop thinking of it as summer hobby and think about lifting as something to do today for the rest of your life and those few "wasted" months won't seem like a big deal......at least that is my 2 cents

[MikeC1]

Dude, relax. Think long term. Two weeks is a negligible amount of time, if you have actually read people's log's you'll realize everybody has down periods. Think long term. You're lifts aren't terrible considering how small you are, especially if you went into it totally untrained. Yes, eat more. Possess a go-getter attitude. Stop complaining. If you have to "start over"-whatever that actually means-it's not a big deal, keep lifting, stop thinking of it as summer hobby and think about lifting as something to do today for the rest of your life and those few "wasted" months won't seem like a big deal......at least that is my 2 cents

Best advice of the thread. Why get down if you can't lift as much as somebody else anyway? Have you tried microloading? Since you're naturally smaller, you're probably more likely to stall earlier. And did anybody mention to eat more?