12 Weeks On Starting Strength, Thoughts And Where To Go From Here

[gamedog]

I've been doing the Starting Strength Novice Program for 12 weeks thus far. As of now, here are my stats:

[...]

Age: 31 years old.
Height: 6'

Starting Weight on May 3: 219 lbs.
Current Weight Today: 253 lbs.

Squats: 290 lbs. 3x5 (shooting for 295 tomorrow and the big 300 on Friday)
Dead Lift: 305 lbs. x5x1 (last Friday)
Bench Press: 190 lbs. x5x3 (last Friday, 195 tomorrow, and I de-loaded that once so far)
Press: 140 lbs. x5x3 (yesterday, and I de-loaded that once so far)

***I started the majority of the lifts 135 on all lifts except the press, started that one with 95, and started the PC weaksauce to learn it, this was a de-load after stalling on StrongLifts 5x5. I wanted to start fresh with a new program and 135 lbs. for my lifts was easy for a lazy dude like me to remember so I started with that when I started SS***

[...]

I've missed a workout here and there, mostly due to LifeShit, but I've added weight consistently, and I am quite pleased with the results I've gotten from following this program. I have, for once, achieved better than I expected/wanted to. And I'm grateful.

Anyway, the subject of either switching over to the Advanced Novice program (e.g. programming-in a light squat day, on Wednesday) or the Texas Method has come up.

I started feeling as though I was burning out a little bit. And I'm getting close to a stall (but FUCK I hope I can make it through this week though). And I was curious about switching over to Advanced Novice before I burn out. I notice that some folks who do this will either:

a. Do lighter front squats on Wednesdays and keep everything else moving along the same

b. Break their workout schedule down into Week A and Week B, with light squats day on Wednesday. I read about this on the Wiki, here: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Stalling.2C_Resetting_and_Progress ing (see at the bottom)

I was wondering first, which of these would be more advantageous, to do? I do have to say, that I like the idea of only deadlifting once every week. But honestly, I don't think I'm pulling enough on those to justify that.

My goal here is to keep getting stronger. I don't give a shit about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, teh gunz, teh washboard abzzz for teh bitchez to wash their panties on, or any of that other bullshit. Basically, SS took me from looking like Dale Gribble and turned me into a fucking big, scary-looking tank, and I'd like to continue along in that vain when I switch to a more advanced program.

But what I'm having trouble with, is figuring out which one to do.

I don't have the PP book yet. I am ordering it on Friday when I get paid. But I wanted to ask for some information prior-to that.

Is it advisable to switch to the Advanced Novice Phase insomuch as, you give yourself a little break on Wednesdays with a light squat day, and keep everything else moving along as-per usual, or is it better to do divvy the lifts up into Week A and B with a light squat day in there too, as shows in the Wiki?

Or, is it better to switch to the Texas Method with a de-load? I have read about this happening, in such cases as Zach Evetts. I've been curious about this.

And -last one I promise- if I was to do the Texas Method, I'd be using a template similar to this (from Wiki):

Monday [High Volume/Moderate Intensity]
Squat 5X5
Bench Press 5X5
Power Clean 5X3 (or Bentover BB Row 3x8)

Wednesday [Low Volume/Low Intensity]
Front Squat 3X3
Press 3X3
Back Extension/GHR 5x10
Chin ups 3x12

Friday [Low Volume/High Intensity]
Squat 1X5
Bench Press 1X5
or 5X3
or 5X2
or 5X1
Deadlift 1X5

... I assume that the above, done 3 days per week every week (as opposed to splitting up into Weeks A and B) will allow for me to continue being a tank and getting stronger, but with more time for recovery that I'd need, and I'd be able to continue like this for quite a while, is that right?

When I looked over that particular template, I got a bit confused because all the lifts were still done in the same week, as opposed to being split up into two like in the Advanced Novice program. So I wanted some clarification because sometimes I over-think things and can be a big dummy.

Anyway, thanks you guys, for taking the time to read this and for sharing any thoughts or suggestions you may have. :-)

[skills101]

What exactly do you mean when you say you feel "burnt out?"

[gamedog]

What exactly do you mean when you say you feel "burnt out?"

Ah, I should have clarified on that. What I mean is, I'm to the point now, when squatting, where I get that feeling "I don't think I can finish this rep" kinda regularly.

Last time out wasn't so bad. Bar speed was okay, but they did hurt. And I have DOMS today, and it's way worse than normal. Last Friday I almost got pinned at the bottom. So basically, what I mean is, I'm no longer in that "zone" where you're confident that you're gonna be able to get all your reps, rather, I almost feel similar to running into muscle failure sometimes when I'm doing them.

That's why I was thinking I'm getting ready to hit a stall.

[skills101]

I haven't much experience with these kinds of transitions, but I think with the weight you're lifting now you could definitely afford switching to Advanced Novice for a while. The template in the wiki is similar to the one Rip writes about in PPST2, which looks like this:

Week 1:

Monday: Squat, BP, Back extensions, chin-ups
Wednesday: Light squat (80% Monday), press, deadlift
Friday: Squat, BP, Back extensions, pull-ups

Week 2:

Monday: Squat, press, power clean,
Wednesday: Light squat (80% Monday), BP, Back extensions, Chin-ups
Friday: Squat, press, deadlift.

[gamedog]

Thanks for your time with this one, skills.

My whole thing, here, is that I don't want to be a pussy about this. I realize that there's a certain level of discomfort that is par for the course, so far as barbell training is concerned. And I can handle it, that's certainly not an issue. What I was more worried about was staying on the program as-is and accidentally over-reaching and either hitting a wall or getting injured. I've made great progress and I'd rather switch up to a program like the one you described there than have any other contingencies.

[jacob cloud]

Go to a) schedule and start 2.5lb jumps on bench and press immediately, and try to keep up your progression for as long as possible.

At 30, I know that squatting 3 days a week at full effort at our age is very tough to recover from, especially if you have any amount of LifeShit going on. I also KNOW from experience that it is absolutely vital to switch to 2.5lb jumps on bench and press waaaaaaay sooner rather than later. Trust me.

At your weight and height, you should be able to continue to at least the following for work sets before you need to switch to anything more complicated, IMO: (assuming decent form)
Squat: 365-405, depending entirely on how mentally tough you are
Dead: 405-425
Bench: 225-255, depending mostly on your natural build and previous benching experience
Press: 155-175, "
PC: Depends on technique more than anything, don't stress about it too much, but most guys our size get to around 205 for work sets pretty easily.

This should be at least another 8 weeks of the basic 3x/wk SS program, but using a light squat day on Wed. Don't sell it short! Also, I'd do light back squats (warmup, then 2x5 @ 70% ish of your work sets) unless you have a reason to do front squats. Be warned that they will still feel heavy - this is normal.

[MazdaMatt]

I've been following your training very closely and it looks to me like a light wednesday with no other modification would be exactly what you need to refresh and keep driving up... but I'm not personally experienced in that, it just seems to make sense.

edit: oh yeah, and you and me both need microplates for presses.

[gamedog]

Thank you for you input, Jacob.

You said it, don't sell it short... That's the thing that I was most worried about. I don't want to fuck this up by either switching to an intermediate program too early or whatever. I know that the gains we get as beginners are the best gains, and it's a good thing to get everything out of it we can.

LOL @ 31 it is kind of hard, but it's really not so bad. I do wish I was 19 and doing this, but hey, it is what it is. The more I think about it the more I think about milking it for as much as I can by programming-in the light squat day and making the 10 pound a week jumps.

I'm going to think about this more and see how I feel tomorrow. If my legs still feel like they're on fire LOL like they do right now I'm gonna go with a light day as prescribed.

As to the micro-loading on the bench...

I've been considering this, too. I'm a little on the broke side at the moment, but I do intend to source and buy those little plates as soon as I have a little extra cash. That's just more LifeShit... Both I, and my wife, decided that we're tired of renting so we're on a plan of aggressive bill/student loan payment and savings so we can get into a house of our own here soon, so it's a little strapped but there is room for expenditures, just gotta "program them in" is all ;-)

I will be buying that book though, Friday. SSBBT was great, and I'm sure PP will be too.

[gamedog]

I've been following your training very closely and it looks to me like a light wednesday with no other modification would be exactly what you need to refresh and keep driving up... but I'm not personally experienced in that, it just seems to make sense.

Indeed you have, and I appreciate your candor. And I think you might be right. I'm ready to implement this if needs be, tomorrow.

[jacob cloud]

My 1.25lb plates were well under 10 bucks. Washers, chains, mill down/drill out 2.5s, just make it happen.

And no matter how your legs feel, you're mentally tired, or you wouldn't have made this post. There's absolutely no shame in switching to a light day on Wed right now. Just do it, and refocus your energy on the other lifts when you can.

I'm surrounded by "kids" doing these programs, and it's hard to remember that I'm "ancient," but it is what it is. There's still plenty of opportunity for gains, you just have to be a tad more careful about things, and avoid the ADD programming mentality that is inevitable. I wish I had - I would have squatted 500 WAY earlier, and my bench wouldn't suck quite as badly.

[LudwigVan]

As to the micro-loading on the bench...

I've been considering this, too. I'm a little on the broke side at the moment, but I do intend to source and buy those little plates as soon as I have a little extra cash.

4 of these @ $3 each = 2.5 lbs:

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=33038&ucst=t

[MazdaMatt]

That's just more LifeShit... Both I, and my wife, decided that we're tired of renting so we're on a plan of aggressive bill/student loan payment and savings so we can get into a house of our own here soon

You think you've got LifeShit now! Ha... enjoy your first basement leak, your first roof replacement, your first window and door replacement, your first driveway replacement... Then try to hit the gym 3 days/week while you redo the kitchen (can't cook properly for a couple weeks doing this) and the bathroom. (It is worth it, though. Landlords eat shit)

[gamedog]

Mentally tired... Mentally tired...

Heh, my friend MazdaMatt will agree that I have been agonizing over this. We've been discussing it on my log lately. He is of the same mind as you (Matt I hope you don't mind me paraphrasing you here) when he says that at this level a light day is okay and there's nothing wrong with it.

Man, I gotta tell ya, it goes so much further... I've been having great workouts, I feel great, but fuuuuuuck, it's hard keeping up this momentum. Seriously! I wanted to sit down with the wife and watch a movie last night after work, but I wanted to be in bed by 10 so I could get my rest, for recovery and all, in anticipation of 295 tomorrow and 300 on Friday. Of course, when I did get to bed at 10:30, I didn't fall asleep till 11:30. And I was dead today by noon. Had to take a nap in the car on my lunch break.

It's like, I've been doing everything I can to make sure I get all my rest, and all my meals in, and planning ahead and all... And I understand and accept that we get out of this what we put into it, and I'm fine with that. But yeah, it has made me, in a very large sense, Mentally Tired.

You, MazdaMatt and skills are right, I believe. And you know, I think putting off that 300 until Monday, after two days of solid recovery one of which will feature NOT ONLY a Full English Breakfast WITH two Newcastle and Guinness black and tans but ALSO an appointment with a Reflexologyst, will be a very good thing.

I think a steak tonight, with a movie and beer, followed by a good night's rest with the notion that tomorrow will be a light day will be just what I need to keep my momentum up and my body healthy.

Yep. I'm gonna do it. After thinking about it and talking about it, I believe it's a fine idea and will be good for me.

[gamedog]

You think you've got LifeShit now! Ha... enjoy your first basement leak, your first roof replacement, your first window and door replacement, your first driveway replacement... Then try to hit the gym 3 days/week while you redo the kitchen (can't cook properly for a couple weeks doing this) and the bathroom. (It is worth it, though. Landlords eat shit)

Oh my Dear God what have I done!

[gamedog]

Fuck me, I'm feeling better already!

[gamedog]

4 of these @ $3 each = 2.5 lbs:

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=33038&ucst=t

KICKASS!!! Thanks!

[MazdaMatt]

Good. (BTW, you can get those parts in pretty much any town worth living in by dropping into an industrial fastener store. There's a fastenal and a facca fastener within a 5 min drive of my work.)

[broseph]

I just recently started advanced novice light squats on Wednesday. They are a welcome break. I was getting way too toasted to deadlift after heavy sets every workout.

I do 2 sets of 5 at 80%, and then finish up with a heavy single with the coming Friday's weight. I've definitely suffered some form creep, and this light day is great for working out the kinks. The heavy single ingrains the form I just practiced, feels good, and isn't so much to deplete my reserves for the rest of the lifts.

Like Jacob said, the lighter weight still feels heavy. Heavier than you expect. You're not fully recovered from Monday, and you just squatted that weight a few weeks ago for 3 x 5. Don't let the perceived heaviness dishearten you.

[JStrong]

Howdy,

First, I doubt you've tapped out your linear progression, you've got an inch and 40 pounds on me and I got a bit higher than those number (except bench and press, stupid long arms).

My method, along with an occassional light day (I'm 32) was to go from 3 days per week to 1 on/2 off. So if you have a semi-flexible schedule. It's Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday, or 5 workouts every 2 weeks instead of six.

Consistently getting two days off really made it better for me when the burnout hit.

[RobertFontaine]

Have you tried actively increasing your calories by 500 a day?

While I'm not stuck on numbers persay, you still look like you've generally got room.
Starting Strength should be damned hard. When you say you are having a hard time with the last rep, my response is GOOOD!!!!. When it is f'ing hard is when you will see your best returns on effort.

I would up my calories and milk SS for as long as possible. I'd give it at least 3 resets before I switched to squatting twice a week.

You need to be in a calorie surplus on this program. If you aren't gaining weight you will stall at this point. The problem then isn't the program it's the diet. When adding another 500 calories a day no longer lets you progress even with a reset the switch to the advance novice.

I think you are leaving easy gains on the table if you switch too soon.