CrossFitters, welcome!

[nisora33]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4832409346_d9c0ce26e1.jpg


-S.

[USMC.Scot]

Crossfit isn't all bad.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jKrQrrAH3Xg/S3jZkTmCxZI/AAAAAAAAAag/ineNUXQDnR4/s1600-h/crossfit.jpg

[nisora33]

Crossfit isn't all bad.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jKrQrrAH3Xg/S3jZkTmCxZI/AAAAAAAAAag/ineNUXQDnR4/s1600-h/crossfit.jpg

Amen.

[gzt]

And, of course, there's always Team Gorilla: http://wildgorillaman.blogspot.com

I think they still ****** out this domain name on their forums. I'm kind of surprised by that, because when they did that there were only like two threads criticizing CrossFit on here. I understand why they ***** out IGX, of course, but this place is quite friendly...

[Patrick]

Wait, I thought paleo got you kicked out of CF in favor for a guy who looks like Mother Brain from Metroid. Anyway, I imagine I'm a tremendous pussy because I'm pretty happy with paleo eating. Oh well.

PS - Is gin paleo?

[tertius]

Wait, I thought paleo got you kicked out of CF in favor for a guy who looks like Mother Brain from Metroid. Anyway, I imagine I'm a tremendous pussy because I'm pretty happy with paleo eating. Oh well.

PS - Is gin paleo?

Nah, I think you put in your carb blocks.

[lanky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZp1bLh06Fo

[scoppi]

Crossfit isn't all bad.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jKrQrrAH3Xg/S3jZkTmCxZI/AAAAAAAAAag/ineNUXQDnR4/s1600-h/crossfit.jpg



yes, long live crossfit

http://games2009.crossfit.com/kris_th.jpg

Crossfit: Turning Women into Men and Men into Women Since 1995.

andro friday ftw

[Ian Kovtunovich]

What's everybody's beef with CrossFit?

[USMC.Scot]

Personally I think there's actually a lot of good about Crossfit, so forgive my earlier foray into hyperbole. I think a lot of the workouts have merit, and the basic principle is sound. Starting Strength, 70s big, Crossfit, we've got a lot more in common than we do with the average gym goer or douche trainer in polo shirt. I first discovered Crossfit when I was young and impressionable (a scant couple years ago) and I learned a lot from the free information they had and my old journal subscription. I did it exclusively for a couple years, it got me in great shape for Officer Candidates School, gave me a good fitness base, and taught me some movement skills. I started to have misgivings when all my lifts stalled, so I read SS and PPST. Then the Castro incident broke, and I took a long hard look at the program and really gave some thought to all the criticisms I had heard. What I formerly discarded out of hand, Cool Aid drinker that I was, I found were actually reasonable arguments. I came to several not really earth breaking conclusions, but ones that were valuable for me.
-The WOD, meaning the main page programming, is worthless for someone looking for truly exceptional athletic performance.
-No one is going to "elite" at anything without decades of dedicated training and superior genetics.
-To be good at random things is a laudable goal. Training randomly is not a smart way to achieve this.
-Dedicated strength work with conditioning workouts carefully and smartly integrated will take you much farther than WOD programming alone.
-I respect what Greg Glassman has done, but sometimes the dude just talks out of his ass.
I'd be happy to talk more about all of this. For now, I leave you with the following.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz8PisWOoTE/S2XgECR2WBI/AAAAAAAAAKg/_SUoZnYuMjQ/s1600-h/Libby+DiBiase+crossfit+monster1.jpg

[ColoWayno]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZp1bLh06Fo

I hope that guy felt better after all of that. I wonder if he lost control of his bladder too.

[strengthstarter]

video awesome

[gzt]

-The WOD, meaning the main page programming, is worthless for someone looking for truly exceptional athletic performance.
-No one is going to "elite" at anything without decades of dedicated training and superior genetics.
-To be good at random things is a laudable goal. Training randomly is not a smart way to achieve this.
-Dedicated strength work with conditioning workouts carefully and smartly integrated will take you much farther than WOD programming alone.
-I respect what Greg Glassman has done, but sometimes the dude just talks out of his ass.
I'd be happy to talk more about all of this. For now, I leave you with the following.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz8PisWOoTE/S2XgECR2WBI/AAAAAAAAAKg/_SUoZnYuMjQ/s1600-h/Libby+DiBiase+crossfit+monster1.jpg
I definitely agree about the first. I think, at one time, the main page was intended as programming for people to use, but now I think it's marketing and only marketing. "Hey, look at the rad stuff you do as CrossFitters! You too can be elite and do this crazy stuff!" I think a lot of their franchises are moving towards "dedicated strength work with conditioning workouts [reasonably] carefully and smartly integrated", which remains "CrossFit" as long as the conditioning workouts have that proprietary "CrossFit" feel to it.

[lanky]

More exclusive footage from the Black Box Summit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZHK-Ub544

[foosion]

What's everybody's beef with CrossFit?Usual critiques include:
- bad form, often with high reps. high injury potential.
- not enough strength work with heavy weights
- no sense of programming, just doing random shit
- HQ political issues, if not insanity
- lack of results, except in untrained people who would respond to anything. Winners of their games tend to be people who were good athletes before crossfit.
- claim to be scientific, but aren't

Browse the igx couch thread for lots of crossfit hate. Much of it is whiny, but there are a bunch of good points.

[toddmr]

I have always said and continue to say that I met some outstanding people during my time in crossfit, and it started me on the path to strength training I currently am on. Without it I may have gone another 30 years without learning about Rip, SS and Olympic lifting. For that I am thankful.

But here's my story: I was doing crossfit and decided to give SS a run. Had outstanding results, stupidly went back to doing the mainpage WOD. Within a couple of weeks of going back to mainpage non-programming, I got pinned under 315# when I had been squatting 355 for sets of five across.

The affiliate I was at then decided to go with all mainpage, all the time, no "roll your own" strength work. That was the end for me.

So in summary, my beefs are

1. not enough strength work, no structure
2. slavish devotion by some affiliates to mainpage programming, which sucks
3. if you're serious about making the program individual for members, as an affiliate, how can you completely ignore your member's goals for $150 a month?

[MazdaMatt]

I would say that the activities they do are highly suited to the modern woman's ideal of "in shape" and "fit". Hense the hotties.

[gzt]

And, of course, the bravado and extreme marketing of it. The barely-trained instructors claiming to be experts on elite fitness. The pseudo-scientific jargon. The cult-like following. The character assassinations done by HQ on those it doesn't like - there's a long list of great people who are no longer associated with CrossFit and the cause of the falling-out was not on their side, but on CrossFit's. The lie that is CrossFit Endurance (DNF is the new 1st place).

[LudwigVan]

$150 a month

Yeah.

[gamedog]

The character assassinations done by HQ on those it doesn't like - there's a long list of great people who are no longer associated with CrossFit and the cause of the falling-out was not on their side, but on CrossFit's. The lie that is CrossFit Endurance (DNF is the new 1st place).

*cough *cough Mark Twight! *cough *cough

[WaWa Bird]

*cough *cough Mark Twight! *cough *cough

Check out Dan John as well. He has a lot of article on tmuscle.com..

[scoppi]

Check out Dan John as well. He has a lot of article on tmuscle.com..

yeah, glasshole called dan john a coward for not backing some of his ridiculous claims up. but yeah, the character assassination has to include, dan john, mark twight, and robb wolf. then theres the subject matter expert fall outs. greg everett, rip, martone, tate? there has to be more. pretty much the only one to stick around is burgener.

oh, and if you didnt know, the main page programming will take your deadlift up to 750.

[gzt]

Tate was never really their SME and didn't have a falling out. He did a couple seminars about powerlifting and did some videos (I think only at their seminars). That's not a real affiliation, that's probably just doing what he does for anybody who pays him enough to do so. That's pretty much the same thing Louie did/is doing for them.

[L_D]

Where's Mr. "People Stop What They Are Doing In My Gym To Watch Me Squat" when you need him? Anyone look at his blog over at bb.com lately? Hell, I can't even remember the guy's name anymore.

EDIT: Ok I remember now, bomb1977. Here's his blog http://blog.bodybuilding.com/bomb1977 Looks like he didn't like what they had to say over there either. I'm seeing a pattern develop.

[MazdaMatt]

oh, and if you didnt know, the main page programming will take your deadlift up to 750.

Ounces?

[scoppi]

Ounces?

:D

[Sean5424]

Learning to clean with a medicine ball/PVC is like learning to shoot with a squirt gun.

[nisora33]

Learning to clean with a medicine ball/PVC is like learning to shoot with a squirt gun.

Favorite quote in a long time. TRUTH.

-s.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

Personally I think there's actually a lot of good about Crossfit, so forgive my earlier foray into hyperbole. I think a lot of the workouts have merit, and the basic principle is sound. Starting Strength, 70s big, Crossfit, we've got a lot more in common than we do with the average gym goer or douche trainer in polo shirt. I first discovered Crossfit when I was young and impressionable (a scant couple years ago) and I learned a lot from the free information they had and my old journal subscription. I did it exclusively for a couple years, it got me in great shape for Officer Candidates School, gave me a good fitness base, and taught me some movement skills. I started to have misgivings when all my lifts stalled, so I read SS and PPST. Then the Castro incident broke, and I took a long hard look at the program and really gave some thought to all the criticisms I had heard. What I formerly discarded out of hand, Cool Aid drinker that I was, I found were actually reasonable arguments. I came to several not really earth breaking conclusions, but ones that were valuable for me.
-The WOD, meaning the main page programming, is worthless for someone looking for truly exceptional athletic performance.
-No one is going to "elite" at anything without decades of dedicated training and superior genetics.
-To be good at random things is a laudable goal. Training randomly is not a smart way to achieve this.
-Dedicated strength work with conditioning workouts carefully and smartly integrated will take you much farther than WOD programming alone.
-I respect what Greg Glassman has done, but sometimes the dude just talks out of his ass.
I'd be happy to talk more about all of this. For now, I leave you with the following.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz8PisWOoTE/S2XgECR2WBI/AAAAAAAAAKg/_SUoZnYuMjQ/s1600-h/Libby+DiBiase+crossfit+monster1.jpg

Last things first: nice burpees.

Regarding the rest, thanks for the response. I have inferred as much from other comments, basically that CF is not as good as it could be or as good as it bills itself, a shortcoming that is magnified when viewed through the lens of the hype around CF. I think the "elite" thing is just marketing, but if you look at the level of fitness many CFers achieve in comparison to most gymgoers, it blows the typical stuff out of the water. As far as a general fitness program that gets above-average results for most people, and keeps people interested (which to my mind may be a bigger benefit of the nonspecificity, since workout routines typically don't keep people interested for more than a few months, as far as I can tell), I think it's great. Big emphasis on nutrition and other factors (e.g. sleep) as well, which is good for most people. I do find their online community way too insular and dogmatic (to say nothing of how highly censored it is), and the whole Kool-Aid drinking thing really rings true.

Was the "Castro incident" that whole blowup at the summit or whatever, where Robb Wolf got shitcanned? That was pretty lame, I thought. Seems like there is CrossFit the program (mostly good) and CrossFit the organization (bizarre ego cult).

[Monster]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2010-4/1356093/hot%20rod%20girl.jpg

_________________________________________________ ^^^^ hook grip ^^^^

[Ian Kovtunovich]

Stop posting photos of CF girlies on my thread.

Yes, I know it's not my thread, but I hijacked it fair and square!

[MazdaMatt]

Don't listen to him. CF gets a lot of flack here, but I still like the sexy backs and bums it produces.

[gamedog]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2010-4/1356093/hot%20rod%20girl.jpg

That right there looks like two scoops of french vanilla ice cream to me.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

I deed her.

[WaWa Bird]

Women of Crossfit

http://wildgorillaman.blogspot.com/.

[scoppi]

Was the "Castro incident" that whole blowup at the summit or whatever, where Robb Wolf got shitcanned? That was pretty lame, I thought. Seems like there is CrossFit the program (mostly good) and CrossFit the organization (bizarre ego cult).

Yeah Ian, that was the black box summit. basically, robb gives his deal on paleo, castro screams that that was robb bashing the zone (mind you, at an event he is a GUEST at). then everett gives his speech on olifting and how better form means better results, castro says get into it now, after everett says he'll talk about med ball clean form later, everett thinks mike rutherford said it, so he says maybe later sweetheart, castro says did you just call me sweetheart you fat fuck, castro storms the stage, they take it outside, castro starts trying to provoke everett to fight, grabs everetts neck, screams obscenities, etc. dutch and jeremey theil try to break it up, and threaten to call the cops on castro. then robb wolf tells castro he can shove the high paying nutrition gig up his ass. castro goes silent, and and starts saying theyre all done and he'll take their affiliations away, dictator style.

crossfit is just circuit training. all they did was add in thrusters, sumo deadlift high pulls, oly lifting, and ring stuff, all of which are either crappy movements, or dont belong in a timed environment. they slapped their label on something that already existed, and sold it. so yeah, there is value to circuit training and crossfit can provide you with good conditioning (if you dont get injured or rhabdo first), but i could never be a "crossfitter" again due to HQ and the douchebaggery of the current crossfit culture.

[Dastardly]

Holy douchefags

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_URHlgSoVHZI/TE7mdV1XEhI/AAAAAAAADKI/oJzz0llGD10/s1600/androhappy+%287%29.jpg

[Patrick]

The complaint about CF as a method of training is that I just don't think it's any good. I did strength training for a couple of years, did SS for a few months, and right from the beginning I was doing pretty well. The problem is that progression in CF is damned nearly impossible to gauge on any reasonable timescale, and random programming simply doesn't seem to be the smartest method to achieve it.

I've said this before and I maintain it: the best CF athletes are people who were athletic and THEN found CF, not the other way around. Jason Khalipa and Miko Salo (spelling unsure on both) would have been standouts in any physical endeavor they took on because they had trained hard for a long time using other methods. CF as sport can be fun as fuck, but being under the bar makes you good at CF, not the other way around.

The thing about CF that is obvious is the attractive women. I think that's not an accident! CF has a lot of high-rep work and women tend to respond to that better than guys in the sense in some real biologically-based ways. Men with, let's just say 'desirable' physiques tend to get there with a little bit more of a bias on the lower rep side of things and I think we all know why that is.

The complaint about CF the organization is that it's run like a cult by an egomaniac.

[nisora33]

CF has a lot of high-rep work and women tend to respond to that better than guys in the sense in some real biologically-based ways. Men with, let's just say 'desirable' physiques tend to get there with a little bit more of a bias on the lower rep side of things and I think we all know why that is.



Nice of you to talk out of your ass for us. This is got to be the biggest pile of shit I've read here in a while & reminds me why I hardly post or read here in anymore. This IS the bodybuilding.com of strength training forums, after all.

[Patrick]

Nice of you to talk out of your ass for us. This is got to be the biggest pile of shit I've read here in a while & reminds me why I hardly post or read here in anymore. This IS the bodybuilding.com of strength training forums, after all.

I'm not talking about the "lift vinyl two-pounders 50 times" kind of thing. I'm talking about the relationship between 1 RM weight and high rep weights for women and men. There's a big difference in this. Then again, the vitriol is coming from a guy who came to a strength forum to talk crossfit, so I'm sorry to disappoint.

[Dastardly]

Well in practical programming it says that women can lift at higher percentages of their 1rm for a lot more reps. Because apparently they lack the ability to do a more "truer" max in the same way that men do because their wiring/hormones are a little less efficient for limit strength.

So I guess, If the women doing crossfit metcon stuff were using very high weights in relation to their 1rm (which might be possible) then it would have a highly anabolic effect.

According to this theory, men would have to hold back a lot more in terms of 1rm percentage to find a usable weight for high rep metcon stuff. So they are challenging themselves much less in terms of limit strength than they would do with conventional training while the women are probably handling a lot more weight than they would do in popular womens training.

[jameson]

Why is it that so many members of this forum feel the need to use sesquipedalian words so far out of common vernacular as to sound absurd?

[nisora33]

Why is it that so many members of this forum feel the need to use sesquipedalian words so far out of common vernacular as to sound absurd?

Because the most common age range for guys on this forum is about 16 to, what?, 25-ish, and everything's a goddamn pissing contest, and a not-very-amusing one, which is an even bigger fail.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

Why is it that so many members of this forum feel the need to use sesquipedalian words so far out of common vernacular as to sound absurd?

Maybe we're all compulsive thesaurophiles.

[tertius]

Why is it that so many members of this forum feel the need to use sesquipedalian words so far out of common vernacular as to sound absurd?

Huh?

I can't say that I've noticed, aside from technical vocabulary associated with various bits of anatomy, in which case it's entirely appropriate.

[jameson]

Because the most common age range for guys on this forum is about 16 to, what?, 25-ish, and everything's a goddamn pissing contest, and a not-very-amusing one, which is an even bigger fail.

Sooo...pedantry then?

[Ian Kovtunovich]

Sooo...pedantry then?

Pissantry. They're all pissanthropes.

[jameson]

Pissantry. They're all pissanthropes.

LOL. Hey, since this is a troll thread anyways; I finally had some Widmer, but it wasn't the Deadlift IPA. It was the Drifter Pale. Not my favorite; tasted like beer and incense.

[MazdaMatt]

Beer and incest? Is that from Alabama?

[Ian Kovtunovich]

LOL. Hey, since this is a troll thread anyways; I finally had some Widmer, but it wasn't the Deadlift IPA. It was the Drifter Pale. Not my favorite; tasted like beer and incense.

Yeah, most of their beers are just OK; maybe a step above most run-of-the-mill micros, but nothing too special IMO. I was actually surprised the DL was as good as it was. Which reminds me, I still have a 4-pack I was going to send to Rip. Gotta get on that.

[OITW]

LOL. Hey, since this is a troll thread anyways; I finally had some Widmer, but it wasn't the Deadlift IPA. It was the Drifter Pale. Not my favorite; tasted like beer and incense.

Yeah, but how many blocks was it?

[jameson]

Yeah, but how many blocks was it?

Hehe. Beer was created before bread so that means it's paleo.

[jameson]

Yeah, most of their beers are just OK; maybe a step above most run-of-the-mill micros, but nothing too special IMO. I was actually surprised the DL was as good as it was. Which reminds me, I still have a 4-pack I was going to send to Rip. Gotta get on that.

I've been enjoying crappy lagers since it's been so hot in TN. The humidity or whatever was so bad yesterday the temp was 88 but the heat index was 107. Ridiculous.

[MazdaMatt]

I've been enjoying crappy lagers since it's been so hot in TN. The humidity or whatever was so bad yesterday the temp was 88 but the heat index was 107. Ridiculous.

Wow... we've had those numbers in Ontario this summer. :(

[jameson]

Wow... we've had those numbers in Ontario this summer. :(

Dang. I thought everything north of AMERICA!! was just a wasteland of ice and penguins. Huh.

[jameson]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NGgVlvoN6PA/SFlI2twFAsI/AAAAAAAABYI/et26SmRg5nc/s400/map.jpg

[Ian Kovtunovich]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NGgVlvoN6PA/SFlI2twFAsI/AAAAAAAABYI/et26SmRg5nc/s400/map.jpg

HAHAHAHAHA! Sounds about right.

[gzt]

I like how Africa doesn't even show up.

[jameson]

I like how Africa doesn't even show up.

What's an Africa?

[Gorlox22]

http://allisonnyc.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=11
(http://www.blogger.com/profile/05362203483800620774)

[Ian Kovtunovich]

I like how Africa doesn't even show up.

Shit...I like how I didn't even notice that. I really didn't think I was that ignorant, but I should probably follow the evidence, which in this case points to DUHHHHH...

[gamedog]

I like how Africa doesn't even show up.

Ahhh Africa. The Dark Continent, God's Blind Spot.

[Greg C]

As with all things, those that can think should:

Take the good.

Discard the crap.

Move the fuck on.

[rpbrown]

http://allisonnyc.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=11
(http://www.blogger.com/profile/05362203483800620774)

In her books section she lists "Starting Strength". Can't be all THAT bad, then.

Aside from her being pretty hot.

[bluecheese]

I'd put it in her butt. But I'd make her do a Fran first.

[JStrong]

Jeez (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7wv_cOo-jZ0/S6NezmzLVTI/AAAAAAAAARA/-PMdcUYnQcw/s1600/27227_10150157203875331_10150149419535331_11601107 _2044434_n.jpg)

Screw you guys, I'm gonna go do some modal domain metcon's or whatever right after I shave off all my body hair.

Goddamn!

[Monster]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2010-4/1356093/deadlift.jpg

[MazdaMatt]

I don't think anybody ever really questioned that hot chicks do crossfit.

[Patrick]

Well in practical programming it says that women can lift at higher percentages of their 1rm for a lot more reps. Because apparently they lack the ability to do a more "truer" max in the same way that men do because their wiring/hormones are a little less efficient for limit strength.

This is exactly what I was driving at. Stacey might feel like he's invented good sense but I've been in gyms with women and I've introduced women to lifting and it's abundantly clear that the response to absolute weight is genuinely different from a man's. This is a crude over-simplification, but if a girl can move the bar at all she can probably do it for few reps. This has a lot to do with the effects of testosterone --for a given man, an elevation in testosterone makes him a little more acute than he would otherwise be, both cognitively and physically. The hormonal profile of a woman is profoundly different and their physiology develops according to the hormonal environment it sees. The hormonal difference is paramount.

Having done CF workouts at a CF gym, I've seen women maintain perfect form on weights that are "too heavy" for them. A dude with the same training and technical skill can also make lifts that are "too heavy" but, if he's me, he'll look like a hot fucking mess in the process. The relationship between muscular utilization and muscular potential in men and women is worlds apart; this is why Mama Bear goes fucking apeshit when the cubs are threatened but still needs a hand getting groceries from the car.

Also, I'm not sure what jameson was getting at, but I learned the word 'vitriol' in a public school in 7th grade, if that's his problem. If a seven-letter word is long by his standard then his standard is the problem, not the word. I went to college and I read books; I don't apologize for that. I use the best word I know to communicate in a given circumstance and my guess was that Stacey is a smart enough man to know what vitriol means. Also, I'm 28 and not interested in anyone's piss. It's convenient to default to ad hominem responses when all you want to do is come out looking good, but it doesn't lend itself to a rewarding exchange of ideas. (Sorry for the Latin -- I know it's verboten 'round these parts.)

[nisora33]

The thing about CF that is obvious is the attractive women. I think that's not an accident! CF has a lot of high-rep work and women tend to respond to that better than guys in the sense in some real biologically-based ways. Men with, let's just say 'desirable' physiques tend to get there with a little bit more of a bias on the lower rep side of things and I think we all know why that is.


Funny thing is that I've worked as an independent contractor training people out of CrossFit gym for around 5 months now, and I've not observed this superiority of the women's physiques who CrossFit over the one's whom I'm training using strictly 3 X 5, etc. If anything, the women who attend that gym tend to have a "softer" look to them (you know, skinny-fat). I also worked at a commercial gym for nearly five years prior to that as a trainer, giving me lots of opportunities to observe the physiques of the women there, most of whom used higher reps to train, and I can say that they weren't very impressive even amongst the more dedicated ladies whose training was likely to be more "serious."

So your theoretical wankfest doesn't exactly square with my real-world experience, so where exactly does that leave us, now?

What I have seen at some boxes is a tendency for robust, athletic women to self-select, meaning that the women who are likely to sign-up and thrive and stick around are the ones you end up seeing photographed over and again and trotted out as examples of feminine CrossFit "hotness."

But I'm not sure I'm all that intrested in labcoating about such things a lot anymore: what I AM interested in is folks who wank on about something they read in a (admittedly VERY good) book and extrapolating wildly from that to the general population, then making pronouncements about it with all the authority of someone who's been doing this for a decade or more (not me, mind you) and keeping good records all the while.

-S.