Supporting arguements for GOMAD?

[laser]

Hey guys,

So here's the situation. I've been doing GOMAD for the past 6 months and have made some decent progress:

Starting: 135 lbs
squat: 95 3x5
bench: 135 3x5
Press: 65 3x5

Currently: 175
squat: 230 3x5
Bench: 160 3x5
Press: 105 3x5

However, my coworkers and bosses are of the opinion that my GOMAD project is crazy and that I'm endangering my health. Over the last 6 months, I've gone from 8.5% bodyfat to probably around 15%, but I carry all my fat around my belly, so it looks worse than it is.

I'm tired of the constant ridicule. Any one got any good links I can show to support the efficacy and scientific basis behind the GOMAD program?

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Pick some one up and slam them. THat should shut up the rest.

[RobertFontaine]

Why bother? There is absolutely no way that you will convince them as they don't really care. The corollary to this is don't talk about it and they won't have anything to say.

[milesdyson]

something isn't working for you, that's for sure. 40lb of weight gain over 6 months and your bench has gone up 25lb? and your press 40?

[PVC]

something isn't working for you, that's for sure. 40lb of weight gain over 6 months and your bench has gone up 25lb? and your press 40?

Looks like he's doing Stronglifts.

[misspelledgeoff]

Either you are a troll or YNDTFP. Which is it Laser?

[laser]

Sorry guys, I meant to to say 3x5 for all the lifting stats. Fixed for correctness.

The lack of progress in upper body lifts is mainly because I wasn't able to train them for about 1.5 months since I injured my ribs doing jiu jitsu.

The 40 pounds in 6 months though is a bit troubling though. I gained the first 30 really quickly then basically hit a wall over the last 3 months. Maybe I need to up the calorie intake even more. In addition to GOMAD, I'm eating about 2500 calories a day in food and 150 grams a day of protein.

I'm sincerely trying to do the program, but I'm not sure where I'm going wrong other than maybe lack of sleep/recovery time. I'm an investment banker, so I'm lucky if i get 6 hours of sleep per night.

[Carlos Daniel]

(...) hit a wall over the last 3 months.

Please elaborate.

And I've given up trying to convince stupid people since I was 19, there is no reason to be rational to people who just don't work that way. Is there a point in arguing with them if they don't understand your point because they are so fucking stupid?

[/rant mode]

[laser]

By hit a wall, I mean I've been stuck at around 175 pounds for the last 3 months. About a month ago, I hit my first reset on the squat linear progression and my ribs healed up so I started going hard again on the upper body lifts. I've just now reached the weights were I was pre-squat reset and rib injury. Hopefully I'll be able to start gaining again.

[Dastardly]

I remember a couple yeasrs ago I came across a few seperate articles/studies that said milk consumption is especially beneficial in the prevention of diabetes, heart disease and all cancers except for prostate.

I cannot find any of these good articles/studies now dammit!

But found these:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050524001009.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1201474/Drinking-milk-cuts-risk-dying-heart-disease-stroke-fifth.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6898103.stm

[MazdaMatt]

If you've been doing GOMAD for 6 months and you haven't gained any weight for 3 months, you're not eating enough real food. It means that despite the massive calorie boost of GOMAD you are only consuming maintenance calories. Add a couple chunks of meat per day to your diet if you want to break 175. Lifting more weight will never make you gain body weight. Only eating food can do that.

[drewcarroll2]

Hey guys,
Starting: 135 lbs
squat: 95 3x5
bench: 135 3x5
Press: 65 3x5

Currently: 175
squat: 230 3x5
Bench: 160 3x5
Press: 105 3x5


I get the feeling you guys think these improvements aren't very good. From reading SS and PPST I would expect more from the bench and the press in six months, maybe even the squat? Is this typical improvement?

[Marotta]

I get the feeling you guys think these improvements aren't very good. From reading SS and PPST I would expect more from the bench and the press in six months, maybe even the squat? Is this typical improvement?

six months = 26 weeks
26 weeks x 3 training sessions/week = 78 training sessions w/5lb increase per session and eventually down to 2.5lb

even 50 training sessions (~4 months) at 5lb/session increase has your squat go up 250lb, so in other words He's NDTFP

[gamedog]

I'm going to break it down for you in as simple terms as I can.

The moment you stop worrying about the approval of others, is the moment you start living a better, happier life.

Now, some questions have been raised concerning whether or not you're doing the prorgam. Dude, if you're a Jiu-Jitsu player and you're also trying to do a linear progression barbell training program, you best make sure you eat and sleep enough to recover properly and thoroughly from those workouts.

But, to keep this on-topic, if you want to get big and strong, and you want to use GOMAD to help, fine, just do the program properly, drink your milk, eat good food and fuck you co-workers. Seriously, fuck them. Do they, or their opinions really matter? No. Come to think of it, does your family's opinion(s) matter? No. This is about you, setting your goals and accomplishing your goals, for yourself. Not for anybody else. For you.

Never argue with anybody. Never apologize to anybody. Never explain anything to anybody. I get the feeling that you're probably one of these guys that has trouble saying "no" to people, too, so, stop acquiescing to people all the time. Do the program, as Rip laid out in his book. Add 200 pounds to your squat and then see how easy it is to stand on your own two feet.

Seriously. God damn it what is there to think about!? Seriously!

[gamedog]

If you've been doing GOMAD for 6 months and you haven't gained any weight for 3 months, you're not eating enough real food. It means that despite the massive calorie boost of GOMAD you are only consuming maintenance calories. Add a couple chunks of meat per day to your diet if you want to break 175. Lifting more weight will never make you gain body weight. Only eating food can do that.

+1 to Mazda on this one.

You need to throw a steak in there, buddy. Jiu-Jitsu is hard on it's own and now you're lifting too. Eat steak, eat steak eat a big 'ol steer... Better make that two. You need more than 2500 calories per day in real food. Eat 3,000 calories, even 3,500 calories in real food, you could get away with a half-gallon of milk if you wanted to and still be okay. Of course, I'd stick to the gallon until I was done with the novice phase, but that's just me, Your Mileage May Vary.

[milesdyson]

six months = 26 weeks
26 weeks x 3 training sessions/week = 78 training sessions w/5lb increase per session and eventually down to 2.5lb

even 50 training sessions (~4 months) at 5lb/session increase has your squat go up 250lb, so in other words He's NDTFP
great analysis.

[Marotta]

great analysis.

Maths are everywhere.

[RobertFontaine]

Maths are everywhere.

This would be good if true but it isn't. Diminishing returns set in pretty fast as you get to 1.5-2.0x bodyweight on the linear program even with 1600 extra calories a day. The first 4 months are amazing when you start with a 95 or 135 pound squat at a 200 pound body weight but by the time you squat 300 you've probably reset 2 or 3 times and are squatting twice a week on the advanced novice program and seriously thinking about an intermediate program.

If you start with some strength ala a 200 pound squat @ 200 pound bodyweight you are not going to hit 300 in 7 weeks or 400 in 14 ;)

Don't get me wrong. I done did the program from completely detrained through to advanced novice and it provided me more base strength and development than any other initial program I have ever tried in 20 or so years. Took me from 135 to a 300 pound squat in a little over a year. Dieting post program was required ( 250 down to 210 ). The amount of muscle I put on was also pretty obscene. I didn't do the starting numbers so I can't prove it but definitely over 20 pounds. To me this is surreal and no one with any common sense seems to believe it but excess calories and a good linear program is the shit for a complete novice.

[Marotta]

This would be good if true but it isn't. Diminishing returns set in pretty fast as you get to 1.5-2.0x bodyweight on the linear program even with 1600 extra calories a day. The first 4 months are amazing when you start with a 95 or 135 pound squat at a 200 pound body weight but by the time you squat 300 you've probably reset 2 or 3 times and are squatting twice a week on the advanced novice program and seriously thinking about an intermediate program.

If you start with some strength ala a 200 pound squat @ 200 pound bodyweight you are not going to hit 300 in 7 weeks or 400 in 14 ;)

Yes, but he would have made the massive gains for the first 4 months had he gained the weight.

[forgeforth]

Where are your deadlifts, son.

And I never did GOMAD. I just make up whatever I missed with more food. I still have quite a bit of milk, though. And who gives a shit what they say. Seriously, dude. Who gives a shit.

[Marotta]

Where are your deadlifts, son.

And I never did GOMAD. I just make up whatever I missed with more food. I still have quite a bit of milk, though. And who gives a shit what they say. Seriously, dude. Who gives a shit.

Exactly, what do their opinions matter, I did GOMAD during highschool, People would laugh, or tell me it's stupid and so on, then ask me how to get big and strong...

[forgeforth]

Exactly, what do their opinions matter, I did GOMAD during highschool, People would laugh, or tell me it's stupid and so on, then ask me how to get big and strong...

Yeah, or they'd ask you what you were 'on.' Nothing. Just food. Proper technique, intense lifting, plenty of rest and food.

[Marotta]

Yeah, or they'd ask you what you were 'on.' Nothing. Just food. Proper technique, intense lifting, plenty of rest and food.

Yeah, no one believes you when you tell them you don't take supplements.

[msingh]

I'm against the whole GOMAD thing in general, except for a few rare cases. It's probably appropriate only for the skinniest of young teenage boys who need to gain WEIGHT asap. That includes a lot of bodyfat. For a normal adult, it's just fucking dumb. Sure if you got the talent and genetics to end up with a > 1x5 450 squat on linear progression it might be worth it, but for 300? Fuck that shit. Who are you impressing with a 300 lb squat @ 25% bf? Get the fuck out of here.

Having said that, once i've got down to 10% bf, i'm going to do k * GOMAD and 70sbig eating and linear progression again, but i'll be sure to dial it down as i approach 15% bf and definitely not crossing 15 again, in my life. I'll also get the majority of my calories from carbs and protein and not from fat, which is the mistake I made last time. But i'll write about this later when the time comes.

[Carlos Daniel]

If that is you opinion ok, but Rip's opinion is quite different... who should we listen to?

[msingh]

If that is you opinion ok, but Rip's opinion is quite different... who should we listen to?

Your common sense? Do your research and think about what where you are at, what you want, and what risks you are willing to take and make an informed decision. Rip is just a man on the internet, there are many experts on the internet, he's just one of them, that's all. He happens to be one kind of extreme expert, but this is his island and we're visitors on his island, but doesn't mean we should uncritically accept every word he utters. He did write that clarification article too, if it helps you decide.

[Carlos Daniel]

Your common sense? Do your research and think about what where you are at, what you want, and what risks you are willing to take and make an informed decision. Rip is just a man on the internet, there are many experts on the internet, he's just one of them, that's all. He happens to be one kind of extreme expert, but this is his island and we're visitors on his island, but doesn't mean we should uncritically accept every word he utters. He did write that clarification article too, if it helps you decide.

Yes, and his clarification article specifies that GOMAD is not only for teens that escaped Auschwitz, right? I can't see the risks with of doing GOMAD, the research point to dairy consuption being neutral or beneficial regarding risk of CVD.

[msingh]

I can't see the risks with of doing GOMAD, the research point to dairy consuption being neutral or beneficial regarding risk of CVD.
That's nice, but ignorance isn't a virtue. If you want to improve your argument provide an example of a person for whom hypercalorie overfeeding is not harmful. Take it from there. Consider the average person at 15-25% bf doing GOMAD (ie overfeeding 3000 calories above maintenance) for a period of about 12 weeks. Otherwise you'll have to say what sort of example you have in mind where the above is considered safe because it certainly isn't healthy for the average guy above.

[Carlos Daniel]

That's nice, but ignorance isn't a virtue. If you want to improve your argument provide an example of a person for whom hypercalorie overfeeding is not harmful. Take it from there. Consider the average person at 15-25% bf doing GOMAD (ie overfeeding 3000 calories above maintenance) for a period of about 12 weeks. Otherwise you'll have to say what sort of example you have in mind where the above is considered safe because it certainly isn't healthy for the average guy above.

A guy with say, 22% bf is not in the demographic Rip considers doing GOMAD. It quite clearly said in the article you mentioned.

For a guy around 12%, it is probably healthy to gain 20 pounds of muscle, don't you think? if he goes up to 20+%, he can loose that weight after being done with linear progression, so who really cares?

It is worth noting that in the same article it is said that the average trainee ends his LP with around 18%, which is hardly a dangerous bf%.

[Mr.City]

I'm going to break it down for you in as simple terms as I can.

The moment you stop worrying about the approval of others, is the moment you start living a better, happier life.

Now, some questions have been raised concerning whether or not you're doing the prorgam. Dude, if you're a Jiu-Jitsu player and you're also trying to do a linear progression barbell training program, you best make sure you eat and sleep enough to recover properly and thoroughly from those workouts.

But, to keep this on-topic, if you want to get big and strong, and you want to use GOMAD to help, fine, just do the program properly, drink your milk, eat good food and fuck you co-workers. Seriously, fuck them. Do they, or their opinions really matter? No. Come to think of it, does your family's opinion(s) matter? No. This is about you, setting your goals and accomplishing your goals, for yourself. Not for anybody else. For you.

Never argue with anybody. Never apologize to anybody. Never explain anything to anybody. I get the feeling that you're probably one of these guys that has trouble saying "no" to people, too, so, stop acquiescing to people all the time. Do the program, as Rip laid out in his book. Add 200 pounds to your squat and then see how easy it is to stand on your own two feet.

Seriously. God damn it what is there to think about!? Seriously!

Truth

[Patrick]

That's nice, but ignorance isn't a virtue. If you want to improve your argument provide an example of a person for whom hypercalorie overfeeding is not harmful. Take it from there. Consider the average person at 15-25% bf doing GOMAD (ie overfeeding 3000 calories above maintenance) for a period of about 12 weeks. Otherwise you'll have to say what sort of example you have in mind where the above is considered safe because it certainly isn't healthy for the average guy above.

You're so fixated on bodyfat percentage that you're ignoring the compositional quantity that GOMAD is aimed at -- muscle! A person with 20% BF who is still under-muscled benefits from GOMAD. That was me to the letter. I started the whole lifting thing as a completely soft 170, with plenty of fat, and by eating a metric fuckton in conjunction with programmed lifting I was able to develop some musculature.

Further, the way you frame the argument is incredibly misleading. GOMAD is used for a short period to attain a specific goal. No, it's probably not the healthiest thing on the planet, but neither is chemo! I will maintain until I die that I'm a healthier person now at 205 than I was as a skinny-fat 170. In order to get from one point to the other I needed the extra calories and GOMAD was supremely efficient in supplying them.

So the whole question of a caloric surplus being healthy is a red herring... if you don't want to gain weight then just say that, full stop.

[vivek]

Gamedog's post is brilliant.
Fuck your co-workers. Only you can decide whats best for you....