GOMAD rules--cultured products?

[Mulgere Hircum]

So, what precisely constitutes "milk" for GOMAD purposes? Can it be cultured (yoghurt, keffir, cheese, cottage cheese, etc.)? Or does culturing alter the special magic? I'm sort of tempted to get a yoghurt maker for a bit of variety.

Can it be hormone-free, or is getting a bit of ralgrow or something part of the purpose?

Hircum, who got up to a half gallon today.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

I recall a Rip quote, which may have been a witty quip, but may also have been an honest answer, to someone at a seminar asking if yogurt was on OK substitute for milk, and if so how much to have, and he replied "gallon of yogurt." As far as I know, the main goodies in milk are the protein and calories, both of which seem to make it into the yogurt. I would wager my chalk bucket that any dairy is fine. I think the other factor with the milk recommendation, though, is that it's the cheapest source of the nutrients in question.

[Mulgere Hircum]

As far as I know, the main goodies in milk are the protein and calories, both of which seem to make it into the yogurt.


But Rip insists that milk is better than its equivalent components from other sources, so I wasn't sure that cultured products count just because they have the same protein. Also, the carbs in milk have a high enough glycemic index that I can actually feel it, as I'm kinda sensitive to high GI unless I've been doing a *lot* of cardio (which is Not Allowed now). I've never felt that before, but then I doubt I ever came even close to half a gallon of milk in one day. Anyway, since the culture organisms tend to eat the simple sugars in milk so far as I know, I thought it might make a difference.

Not a big issue, but even noticing the sugar in milk was a new one to me.



I would wager my chalk bucket that any dairy is fine. I think the other factor with the milk recommendation, though, is that it's the cheapest source of the nutrients in question.

Fair enough, though if you make your own yoghurt the cost is essentially a bit of electricity for your warmer. I also have keffir grains and could easily make more than the cup a day I make now (I couldn't digest broccoli until I drank keffir, but yesterday's half a gallon of milk doesn't seem to have affected my digestion at all--go figure).

Hircum

[LimieJosh]

Milk does not have a high GI, nor does the lactose in isolation.

[MazdaMatt]

A "sugar rush" is a sign of high GI, right? If so, I feel no such thing with milk, but if I eat half a chocolate bar I'm buzzing (I rarely eat sweet things)

[Dastardly]

I think the biggest factor with milk is that it contains lots of carbs. Drinking milk all day would supply you with a steady supple of carbs, inducing relaease of lots of insulin, which would in turn help the protein & fat be utilised to make you grow.*



*My uneducated broscience guess.

[Carlos Daniel]

I doubt you'd be able to eat that much cottage cheese.

One of the reasons milk is recommended is because it is liquid, you can down a whole liter in 3 minutes. Hard to do that with solid stuff.

Don't know about the yogurt and related dairy products, I guess if it has the same calories and protein it should be fine to replace half the GOMAD with those.

[Mulgere Hircum]

Milk does not have a high GI, nor does the lactose in isolation.

You'd be surprised what "high" means for some people. Apples are high for my brother. I'm not that bad, but my practical threshold is lower than for most.

[Mulgere Hircum]

I doubt you'd be able to eat that much cottage cheese.

One of the reasons milk is recommended is because it is liquid, you can down a whole liter in 3 minutes. Hard to do that with solid stuff.


It's easier if you put it in a shake along with milk and blend it up. Drinkable cheese. :)

The question came up because I'm experimenting with the relative amounts of milk, yoghurt, cottage cheese, and whatnot in my shakes.

[LimieJosh]

You'd be surprised what "high" means for some people. Apples are high for my brother. I'm not that bad, but my practical threshold is lower than for most.

High means high and there are definitions for this. Neither milk nor lactose are high.

[Mulgere Hircum]

High means high and there are definitions for this. Neither milk nor lactose are high.

This discussion was in the context of actual individual performance, and those definitions are useless for atypical individuals. As far as I'm concern, high means it lays me out on the couch for a couple of hours until my metabolism gets under control. (Or rather, that's what happened a long time ago when I wasn't using exercise to tell the muscles that they should too absorb that glucose, which fortunately works quite well if the training is hard.)

I'm fairly uninterested in any other measure than that, as they don't help me one whit, and I'm rather crabby about it because I never got a single bit of useful advice from anyone who I paid to help track down the problem. I suspect that their adherence to the numbers and definitions you talk about made them incapable of actually working out what was wrong. It's basically like a doctor telling you to lose weight because all your strength training has altered your body composition and made your BMI something different than what their chart of average untrained individuals should be. For them "high BMI" has a definition too, and do you wish them to impose it on your atypically well-trained body?

[PVC]

But Rip insists that milk is better than its equivalent components from other sources

Yes he does, and in SS:BBT he describes that his insistence on this matter is due to the fact that, in his experience, trainees on SS that drink the milk do better than the ones who don't drink the milk, even when they take in an equivalent number of calories. Rip goes on to speculate that this is due to the high levels of IGF-1 (Insulin-like growth factor) in milk, a hormone with anabolic effects.

[PVC]

Anyone ever wonder why they haven't made Sugar-Free Milk? I would be first in line.

[Carlos Daniel]

Anyone ever wonder why they haven't made Sugar-Free Milk? I would be first in line.

Well, it's not like you can just make genetic-engineered cows that don't put lactose in their milk.

[PVC]

Well, it's not like you can just make genetic-engineered cows that don't put lactose in their milk.

?????

Are you under the impression that skim milk comes from cows that have been genetically engineered to produce milk with no fat?

[Ian Kovtunovich]

?????

Are you under the impression that skim milk comes from cows that have been genetically engineered to produce milk with no fat?

Duh--how do you think they make it? Process the fat out somehow? Yeah, like that's going to work! :rolleyes:

[Ian Kovtunovich]

Anyone ever wonder why they haven't made Sugar-Free Milk? I would be first in line.

It would prolly taste like ass--I'm sure it has occurred to someone to try it. Lot of lactose-intolerant people out there who could otherwise be drinking lactose-free milk.

Edit:
http://www.organicvalley.coop/products/milk/lactose-free/

Sounds like it just gets lactase put in it, which breaks down the lactose into glucose and galactose, so it still has the sugar in it. I maintain that sugarless milk would probably taste like ass.

[Carlos Daniel]

?????

Are you under the impression that skim milk comes from cows that have been genetically engineered to produce milk with no fat?


That's not how they do it? OH NOES

[Carlos Daniel]

It would prolly taste like ass--I'm sure it has occurred to someone to try it. Lot of lactose-intolerant people out there who could otherwise be drinking lactose-free milk.

Edit:
http://www.organicvalley.coop/products/milk/lactose-free/

Sounds like it just gets lactase put in it, which breaks down the lactose into glucose and galactose, so it still has the sugar in it. I maintain that sugarless milk would probably taste like ass.


Duh--how do you think they make it? Process the fat out somehow? Yeah, like that's going to work! :rolleyes:

Of course it's easier to take out fat, which is only soluble because it's in the form of micelles which constitutes essentially a colloidal suspension, while sugar in the milk is on the other hand in solution.

Adding lactase doesn't do the trick because it only converts the lactose in galactose and glucose. If you add something that metabolizes the sugar, you end up with yogurt or the likes.

You could also say that coke without sugar would taste like ass, wouldn't it? Funny how they ended up solving that problem! You really think that there wouldn't be a market for low-carb milk?

[Mulgere Hircum]

Anyone ever wonder why they haven't made Sugar-Free Milk? I would be first in line.

"Ask, and ye shall receive. Google, and ye shall find. Post, and strangers on the internet will reply with every possible answer except the right one."

Jesus could so have said that. In any event, here you go:

Homemade Sugar Free Milk (http://lowcarbchic.com/?p=432)

Or, if you want the factory original:

Hood Calorie Countdown Milk (http://www.hood.com/Products/prodListColl.aspx?id=851)

The white isn't as popular, but the chocolate seems to get a lot of love here:

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/hood_calorie_countdown_milk

Google is your friend. :D

[ColoWayno]

Marketing is funny... I bet Monsanto liked the idea of putting something like "made with rBst" on milk products. Sounds like "made with our best". Now milk producers have to back track, "not made with our best", or so it sounds. Not the best marketing slogan.

Just a random, non-related thought.

[Carlos Daniel]

"Ask, and ye shall receive. Google, and ye shall find. Post, and strangers on the internet will reply with every possible answer except the right one."

Jesus could so have said that. In any event, here you go:

Homemade Sugar Free Milk (http://lowcarbchic.com/?p=432)

Or, if you want the factory original:

Hood Calorie Countdown Milk (http://www.hood.com/Products/prodListColl.aspx?id=851)

The white isn't as popular, but the chocolate seems to get a lot of love here:

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/hood_calorie_countdown_milk

Google is your friend. :D

Does that still count as milk?

[Mulgere Hircum]

Does that still count as milk?

Well, I hear that reading while riding an exercise bike on low counts as "working out," so why not? ;)

[Ian Kovtunovich]

You could also say that coke without sugar would taste like ass, wouldn't it? Funny how they ended up solving that problem! You really think that there wouldn't be a market for low-carb milk?

I dunno, there are markets for lots of things that I don't really think there'd be a market for.

And Coke without sugar also tastes like ass--Splenda, NutraSweet, saccharine, stevia...they all taste bitter and gross to me.

[Carlos Daniel]

I dunno, there are markets for lots of things that I don't really think there'd be a market for.

And Coke without sugar also tastes like ass--Splenda, NutraSweet, saccharine, stevia...they all taste bitter and gross to me.

To me too, but a lot of people say that diet coke taste just like the real thing. It most certainly does not, it tastes like plastic or something.