My GOMAD only diet

[Age_of_Aquarius]

OK I've been doing the SS for just one week, but I really could do with losing a few ibs so was thinking since milk is the most nutritionally complete food and one which is invaluable for muscle building, Is it possible to survive on milk (with a few fruit/veg juices and supplements bleneded in). Since it's a cut, I'm concentrating on nutritional density rather than calories.

Here's what my diet will look like:

A gallon of milk is 1800 cals (just checked the bottle)

Additionally -
Low cal fruit/ veg juices such as carrot juice (for additional nutrients not adequetelly met through milk)

Supplements
Fish oil
cod liver oil

Just in case I need it i've bought a jar of vegetbale fibre too

Ok I think that's all the bare essentials covered as far as muscle building and fat loss is concerend and all just under 2000 cals per day too! I'm going to start this in 1-2 days. What do you think?

[Squatson]

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

Aquarius
Aquarius!

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation

Aquarius
Aquarius!

Indeed

[Bloodninja666]

This sounds rather awful...

[Carnivroar]

Enjoy the gas.

[ColoWayno]

I'll bite.
How much do you weigh, how tall are you and how much can you squat?

[NKT]

Whole milk is a very nutritionally complete food. The 1800 kCal per gallon you've listed is for skim milk, which is not a nutritionally complete food. It's missing the fat. Your body needs fat in a balanced relationship to other nutrients to function well. Balanced, kind of like you find it in whole milk.

It is certainly possible to survive and thrive on whole milk as your staple food. People have been doing it for thousands of years. A good multivitamin or veggies to fill in any nutritional gaps would be a great idea.

Strangely enough, I've been inadvertently doing an approximation of this diet for about four days now. I'm caring for some friend's animals, including a dairy goat, while they're out of town. She's producing about a gallon per day, and I've been getting most of my nutrition from that gallon of fresh raw milk per day along with a few eggs from their chickens and ducks and veggies from my garden. For the short term, it has been relatively entertaining and I feel great.

[misspelledgeoff]

Why are you doing this kooky ass shit?

[ColoWayno]

Conversation with wife:

Me: Are you ready to move to some acreage since we have all of these dogs?
Her: Yep.
Me: And get some chickens?
Her: Heavens no.

Back to her TV show.

[drewcarroll2]

Wayne,

I am working on the same thing. I want to get enough land to have some chickens and a couple grass fed cows for food each year. and a nice little private gym. I love montana!

Edit: btw, what do you weigh? height? and lifts? and let us know how this goes.

[mstrofbass]

Not too different from the Velocity Diet, except not low-carb. Worked for me when I did it, but requires some kind of will power.

Although, to be fair, I'm not sure I see the advantage of using milk, and not just going low carb and making shakes using whey/casein protein, combined with vitamins.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

I'll bite.
How much do you weigh, how tall are you and how much can you squat?

81kg, 6', 90kg 3x5. My squat and deadlift are naturally quite good imo but my bench press is embarrassing.


Whole milk is a very nutritionally complete food. The 1800 kCal per gallon you've listed is for skim milk, which is not a nutritionally complete food. It's missing the fat. Your body needs fat in a balanced relationship to other nutrients to function well. Balanced, kind of like you find it in whole milk.

It's for the whole milk (blue cap) I bought from tesco.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Why are you doing this kooky ass shit?

High calcium, high quality protein, higher IGF-1 levels in the body, almost isocaloric with lots of vitamins and minerals. Also relatively low in calories which is what I need right now.

Oh yeah I will be taking vitamin D3 as well though since for some strange reason, here in the UK they don't fortify the milk with it.


Not too different from the Velocity Diet, except not low-carb. Worked for me when I did it, but requires some kind of will power.

Although, to be fair, I'm not sure I see the advantage of using milk, and not just going low carb and making shakes using whey/casein protein, combined with vitamins.

I suppose something similar could be recreated using supplements, but I think such a combination would be devoid of a lot of nutrition that the milk would provide, esp if some nutrients work synergistically. Also I'd question the bioavailability of supplements in synthetic form over whole foods.

I'm going to try this for a month and see how it goes!

[misspelledgeoff]

well for the record, I think this is a silly diet for cutting. Too many carbs and not enough protein.

Furthermore, you are silly for trying to cut on week 2 of linear program.

In addition, you are a scarecrow at 6' and 81kg (178 pounds?). And you want to cut fat? On week 2 of SS?

You are either a fool or a troll.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

well for the record, I think this is a silly diet for cutting. Too many carbs and not enough protein.

Furthermore, you are silly for trying to cut on week 2 of linear program.

In addition, you are a scarecrow at 6' and 81kg (178 pounds?). And you want to cut fat? On week 2 of SS?

You are either a fool or a troll.

Well I guess it's because I have a really crappy metabolism cause at 6' 81kg I still have some jiggley fat around my abs which i'm trying to get rid of. My fat is never distributed evenly, it all just goes straight to my abdomen which i've heard is a real pain in the ass when it comes to insulin resistance etc. Because of this I have to try and keep my total BF% low.

I've tried various higher protein diet - paleo, velocity, anabolic with little success. So I want to take a different approach. HEard reports of some fat guy who shed something like 70kgs drinking nothing except milk. Then I cam across a study at ergo-log which claimed high calcium and vitamin D intakes are important for successful fat loss.

[ColoWayno]

Well I guess it's because I have a really crappy metabolism cause at 6' 81kg I still have some jiggley fat around my abs which i'm trying to get rid of.

I second what Geoff said. You should try to get stronger and not worry about losing weight. The jiggley fat and bad metabolism will more than likely improve as well.
I forgot to ask how old you are?

[misspelledgeoff]

Dude, you are worried about insulin resistance at 6' 81kg? Do you have any fucking clue how one gets insulin resistant and what other issues coexist with this phenomenon?

You should listen to Colo. Get stronger and gain 20kg of body weight on The Program. Then get your abzors back. If you still want them.

But you won't listen to Colo and I fear we are all wasting time responding to you.

Better you go to Lyle McDonald's forum. You'll find a lot more likeminded folks and get better methods for getting ripped.


Well I guess it's because I have a really crappy metabolism cause at 6' 81kg I still have some jiggley fat around my abs which i'm trying to get rid of. My fat is never distributed evenly, it all just goes straight to my abdomen which i've heard is a real pain in the ass when it comes to insulin resistance etc. Because of this I have to try and keep my total BF% low.

I've tried various higher protein diet - paleo, velocity, anabolic with little success. So I want to take a different approach. HEard reports of some fat guy who shed something like 70kgs drinking nothing except milk. Then I cam across a study at ergo-log which claimed high calcium and vitamin D intakes are important for successful fat loss.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

I second what Geoff said. You should try to get stronger and not worry about losing weight. The jiggley fat and bad metabolism will more than likely improve as well.
I forgot to ask how old you are?

So what type of diet would you recommend in conjunction with the programme?
I'm 21 never done any 'proper' training prior to now. Just used to go and fuck about on the machines when I was 19-20 ish.

[mstrofbass]

So what type of diet would you recommend in conjunction with the programme?
I'm 21 never done any 'proper' training prior to now. Just used to go and fuck about on the machines when I was 19-20 ish.

Get big and strong first, then cut if you must.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Started doing this today btw.

Already downed 2 litres of milk today with some onion juice blended into it. Was surprised that I i didn't get bad breath, and the onion juice seems to bring out the natural sweetness of the milk. Good combo esp good since onion juice is supposed to have growth-hormone and insulin like properties.

So far so good, I feel great. Only negs so far are a bit of gas.

[dcurrin]

That sounds horrifying.

1800 calories is not remotely enough to maintain linear progression. In fact I would call it less than half of what you should be eating.

[ColoWayno]

So what type of diet would you recommend in conjunction with the programme?
I'm 21 never done any 'proper' training prior to now. Just used to go and fuck about on the machines when I was 19-20 ish.
Ok, I'm 47 and coming back from a bunch of missed workouts from vacation. For the next few weeks there pretty much isn't anything I'm going to turn down in terms of food. That's because I'm in a place where I can make rapid strength gains and can use every bit of energy I can eat. You are in an even better place (unless there's some important medical information you are leaving out) to make fast gains. Try the same thing for a month and see what happens. Work hard and add weight to your lifts EVERY SESSION. Make everyone around you think you are a gluttonous fool. If you can't add weight for this entire month you probably aren't eating enough.
You won't get that fat in a month (you may find you even notice less jigglyness). Look around this site and you'll learn more than anyone can tell you in a single post. In a month you'll be smarter and stronger and know more about what you want to do.

[ColoWayno]

Started doing this today btw.
Already downed 2 litres of milk today with some onion juice blended into it.

As that guy that never made it out of the minor leagues said in the M. Night Shyamalan movie, "it doesn't feel right not to swing".

[Age_of_Aquarius]

That sounds horrifying.

1800 calories is not remotely enough to maintain linear progression. In fact I would call it less than half of what you should be eating.

I just checked and the milk from most stores is actually 2500. I'll stick with that and eat some other good food alongside it then, lean meats, wholegrains, fruit, nuts etc


As that guy that never made it out of the minor leagues said in the M. Night Shyamalan movie, "it doesn't feel right not to swing".

I don't get it.

[ColoWayno]

I don't get it.
I'm the guy who swings at the first pitch and gets more strikeouts than hits. That's how this conversation was feeling. Let us know how it goes.

[MazdaMatt]

You are a scrawny weak pussy or a troll. I hope for your sake it is the latter, or that you're about to get a fucking wakeup call and get over your anorexia. Eat a fucking burger and get another 100lbs on that barbell. At 6 feet tall you need to gain another 30 pounds to stop being scrawny. Fuck me, why do all you people reply to this bullshit? An all-milk diet to cut from 175lbs@6ft? Milk with onion juice? What a fucking retard.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

I'm the guy who swings at the first pitch and gets more strikeouts than hits. That's how this conversation was feeling. Let us know how it goes.

I don't understand baseball. But i'll keep you updated.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

You are a scrawny weak pussy or a troll. I hope for your sake it is the latter, or that you're about to get a fucking wakeup call and get over your anorexia. Eat a fucking burger and get another 100lbs on that barbell. At 6 feet tall you need to gain another 30 pounds to stop being scrawny. Fuck me, why do all you people reply to this bullshit? An all-milk diet to cut from 175lbs@6ft? Milk with onion juice? What a fucking retard.


K, if you say so tough guy.

[Carlos Daniel]

You are a scrawny weak pussy or a troll. I hope for your sake it is the latter, or that you're about to get a fucking wakeup call and get over your anorexia. Eat a fucking burger and get another 100lbs on that barbell. At 6 feet tall you need to gain another 30 pounds to stop being scrawny. Fuck me, why do all you people reply to this bullshit? An all-milk diet to cut from 175lbs@6ft? Milk with onion juice? What a fucking retard.

I have to agree with Matt. I weight what you weight and I'm 5'7". Except I'm squatting 130 Kg. At this weight and height, you don't have anything to "cut" into, it's like carving a pebble.

[ColoWayno]

I don't understand baseball. But i'll keep you updated.

It's more fun to talk about baseball than milk only diets. SO... in baseball the pitcher trys to throw the ball so it can't be hit, but he has to keep it in the strike zone or he'll walk the batter. 3 misses by the batter (strikes) and he's out. Four balls (misses strike zone) by the pitcher and the batter gets to base for free. If the batter swings and misses it doesn't matter whether the ball was thrown in the zone or not, it counts as a strike against the batter.
SO this sets up this wonderful psychological duel which is very unique in sports. If the pitcher knows the batter likes to swing he's motivated to throw it outside the strike zone where it would be easier to connect. The hitter has to be smart and know when to expect this. BUT if you let a strike go by, then you are starting out behind in the count (the number of balls and strikes).
SO either you are a smart troll and got me to swing on a lousy pitch, or the analogy breaks down.

[mstrofbass]

SO either you are a smart troll and got me to swing on a lousy pitch, or the analogy breaks down.

In general, if a baseball analogy "must" be explained, you probably got double trolled.

[ColoWayno]

In general, if a baseball analogy "must" be explained, you probably got double trolled.

Dammit! I get one more strike don't I?

[ColoWayno]

I'm the worst frikin batter ... E.V.E.R ...

[MazdaMatt]

AoA, this is a HUGE source of information on how to become big and strong. If you'd like to do that, by all means ask intelligent questions and we'll gladly help you out - myself included. What the hell do you want to dcut down to? 160? I'm 5'11" and I have finally managed to get up to 200lbs and I'm squatting 100lbs more than you and i find that it is embarrisingly light. I'm by no means 'tough guy" in this community. If I added 200 MORE pounds to my squats work weight, then I could say that. You think squatting 170lbs is some kind of gift? Eat a burger and read the site a bit, you'll see the light.

[gzt]

When I was 16, I was about your height and weight. I guess you could've pinched some fat around my waist or something, but I was a beanpole. A few years later, at about 15# heavier and 2" taller, I was still a beanpole, though, again, you could probably pinch a little bit of pudge. The "beanpole" description, by the way, isn't my words, it's the words of everybody around me. You need to gain 20# before you'll be anything but lanky.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

AoA, this is a HUGE source of information on how to become big and strong. If you'd like to do that, by all means ask intelligent questions and we'll gladly help you out - myself included. What the hell do you want to dcut down to? 160? I'm 5'11" and I have finally managed to get up to 200lbs and I'm squatting 100lbs more than you and i find that it is embarrisingly light. I'm by no means 'tough guy" in this community. If I added 200 MORE pounds to my squats work weight, then I could say that. You think squatting 170lbs is some kind of gift? Eat a burger and read the site a bit, you'll see the light.

Hey nice post man, that's why I signed up here - to learn. I just don't understand what's wrong with me. I used to weigh 100kg a few years ago, now i'm 81kg and i'm still fat. I don't get it. Anyway, fuck it, you're right, I think i'm going to try out the programme the way it was intended - with super size servings of food.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Hey there's just one thing though - I was following the raw vegan diet about a year ago and it taught me a lot about eating nutritional foods.Iit basically said that red meat and processed grains are the worst disaster to ever happen to human nutrition, i've managed to convince myself to add dairy and lean white meats back into my diet but meats/porcessed grains are supposed to be very nutritionally scarce, are very acidic consequently disrupting the Natural alkalizing PH of the body and in the long run can lead to osteoporosis.

So if I eat burgers I will consuming both of those things - but the raw food activists state that such 'empty' calories from junk food make my body weaker rather than stronger.

I agree with you all that excess calories are important for optimum muscle gains, but wouldn't it be better to get those calories by eating healthy food like quinoa salads or chicken salad sandwhiches rather than mcdonalds?

Oh and the thing about the onion juice - it's very rich in allyl propyl disulfide and chromium which increase insulin senstivitivty. Just found out that the reasearch was all done in Iran though, so I think the science might be a bit 'shaky'. I've ditched that.

[misspelledgeoff]

So let's recap.

Scrawny bean pole wants to cut weight. Check.
Scrawny bean pole wants to cut weight on SS. Check.
Scrawny bean pole missapplies "science" to justify silly diet(s). Check. (Double check for throwing vegan in there)
Scrawny bean pole creates ridiculous thread on ridiculous topic in Ends & Pieces. Check.

You are four for four on the obvious troll topics and strategies. Next you'll be asking if you can sub Portugese Titty Twisters instead of Power Cleans.

If you must troll this board, can you please get better at trolling? So far you are rather predictable and dull.

[Carlos Daniel]

Can I have the honor?

Ahem..
Have you read the book?

[drewcarroll2]

Hey nice post man, that's why I signed up here - to learn. I just don't understand what's wrong with me. I used to weigh 100kg a few years ago, now i'm 81kg and i'm still fat. I don't get it. Anyway, fuck it, you're right, I think i'm going to try out the programme the way it was intended - with super size servings of food.

You wanna know why your still a scrawny version of your "fat" self, It is because you supposedly lost almost 40lbs on a vegan raw diet dude, and I bet you didn't lift hard when you were doing it. Shit, I forgot to preface this by saying "on the off chance your not a troll, here is my .02". If you had worked out you wouldn't still be "skinny fat" bro.


Hey there's just one thing though - I was following the raw vegan diet about a year ago and it taught me a lot about eating nutritional foods.Iit basically said that red meat and processed grains are the worst disaster to ever happen to human nutrition, i've managed to convince myself to add dairy and lean white meats back into my diet but meats/porcessed grains are supposed to be very nutritionally scarce, are very acidic consequently disrupting the Natural alkalizing PH of the body and in the long run can lead to osteoporosis.

So if I eat burgers I will consuming both of those things - but the raw food activists state that such 'empty' calories from junk food make my body weaker rather than stronger.

I agree with you all that excess calories are important for optimum muscle gains, but wouldn't it be better to get those calories by eating healthy food like quinoa salads or chicken salad sandwhiches rather than mcdonalds?

Oh and the thing about the onion juice - it's very rich in allyl propyl disulfide and chromium which increase insulin senstivitivty. Just found out that the reasearch was all done in Iran though, so I think the science might be a bit 'shaky'. I've ditched that.

Don't come round here with your hippy bullshit unless your gonna share some of that one hit wonder or the kind buds bro. If red meat was so bad for us then we wouldn't have domesticated animals that give us red meat.

Guys, don't be so hard on him, He's a Welshman I think. Wheres Dastardly? He speaks the language.

Its not your fault dude, everyone here is try to speak American to you and your speaking British back. It is getting lost in translation.

[drewcarroll2]

Can I have the honor?

Ahem..
Have you read the book?

Carlos FTW!

[gzt]

Hey there's just one thing though - I was following the raw vegan diet about a year ago and it taught me a lot about eating nutritional foods.Iit basically said that red meat and processed grains are the worst disaster to ever happen to human nutrition, i've managed to convince myself to add dairy and lean white meats back into my diet but meats/porcessed grains are supposed to be very nutritionally scarce, are very acidic consequently disrupting the Natural alkalizing PH of the body and in the long run can lead to osteoporosis.

So if I eat burgers I will consuming both of those things - but the raw food activists state that such 'empty' calories from junk food make my body weaker rather than stronger.

I agree with you all that excess calories are important for optimum muscle gains, but wouldn't it be better to get those calories by eating healthy food like quinoa salads or chicken salad sandwhiches rather than mcdonalds?

Oh and the thing about the onion juice - it's very rich in allyl propyl disulfide and chromium which increase insulin senstivitivty. Just found out that the reasearch was all done in Iran though, so I think the science might be a bit 'shaky'. I've ditched that.Bolded part, particularly the bit about acids, is nonsense. Onion juice, the Iranian research showed it boosted test levels in rats, nothing about that other stuff. Don't know if it's been duplicated in humans. Given that the dose of onion juice was 1g/kg of bodyweight, might as well give it a shot. As for where you get those calories, yeah, it's better to get it from straight-up meats and vegetables (animal fat is not evil, so I'm not advocating lean meats), but it gets hard to eat that much "clean". If you're just cramming down McDonald's for a few months, I can't imagine long-term harm coming up unless, like me, you "bulk" for about 2 years straight. The harms of a McDonald's based diet are of a long-term, chronic nature. Doing it for a few months won't kill you. If you're still eating sloppy in a decade, though, that's bad.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

So let's recap.

Scrawny bean pole wants to cut weight. Check.
Scrawny bean pole wants to cut weight on SS. Check.
Scrawny bean pole missapplies "science" to justify silly diet(s). Check. (Double check for throwing vegan in there)
Scrawny bean pole creates ridiculous thread on ridiculous topic in Ends & Pieces. Check.

You are four for four on the obvious troll topics and strategies. Next you'll be asking if you can sub Portugese Titty Twisters instead of Power Cleans.

If you must troll this board, can you please get better at trolling? So far you are rather predictable and dull.

Is there really any need to be so obnoxious? I don't appreciate being called a 'scrawny little bean pole' over and over again.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Bolded part, particularly the bit about acids, is nonsense. Onion juice, the Iranian research showed it boosted test levels in rats, nothing about that other stuff. Don't know if it's been duplicated in humans. Given that the dose of onion juice was 1g/kg of bodyweight, might as well give it a shot. As for where you get those calories, yeah, it's better to get it from straight-up meats and vegetables (animal fat is not evil, so I'm not advocating lean meats), but it gets hard to eat that much "clean". If you're just cramming down McDonald's for a few months, I can't imagine long-term harm coming up unless, like me, you "bulk" for about 2 years straight. The harms of a McDonald's based diet are of a long-term, chronic nature. Doing it for a few months won't kill you. If you're still eating sloppy in a decade, though, that's bad.

There was a different study done back in 1967 focusing on onion hypoglycaemic qualities and about unusual growth in rats given the juice.

I think you're right about the junk food though. I suppose some extra calories here and there are won't kill even if they are from the occasional donner kebab and pint of stella! Haha.

Cheers for the helpful response mate!

[gzt]

You really do have to be careful about going on one of those "eternal bulking" phases. I'm on one, it seems. Gaining strength is just too addictive, so I can't afford to back off the diet a bit... At that point, the McDonald's does catch up.

[Alyion]

The reason you have a 'slow metabolism' and jiggly fat is because you have never had a chance to train with weights. I would suggest running a program such as SS whilst eating to maintain strength progression - I wouldn't recommend slamming on the pounds as quickly as possible, but rather to eat enough food to drive up your strength numbers. Do this for 6-12 months then take it from there.

[Monster]

Is there really any need to be so obnoxious? I don't appreciate being called a 'scrawny little bean pole' over and over again.

Just when msingh was beaten into his hole, now comes Queerius to vie for the trolling trophy

[Rorschach]

Like a lot of people new to training, you're overthinking. Worrying about acidic diets and chemicals in onion juice is a classic example. At least you're not obsessing over supplements yet. ;)
Keep things simple - train hard, eat plenty, worry about minor details with minimal at best effects when you're an olympic grade athelete trying to add an extra pound to your lifts.
History (and this board) are full of very strong people who got that way without worrying about insulin sensitivity or whether broccili or cabbage is more nutritionally dense.
You're a young man, you're a lot more robust than you think.
Also, approach things with more critical thinking - asking vegans for healthy eating advice is rather suspect. I respect vegans/vegetarians who do so for moral reasons, but if they try to tell you the diet is healthier, they're talking crap. We're omnivores, eating meat is perfectly natural (including red meat), and there're plenty of health benefits from doing so. Many people eat large amounts of red meat and are very healthy.

And you'll care less about a little belly-flab when you've got some solid muscle underneath it. Not to mention that you'll find it easier to drop fat then - muscle takes calories just to maintain, not to mention you'll have a healthier metabolism.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Like a lot of people new to training, you're overthinking. Worrying about acidic diets and chemicals in onion juice is a classic example. At least you're not obsessing over supplements yet. ;)
Keep things simple - train hard, eat plenty, worry about minor details with minimal at best effects when you're an olympic grade athelete trying to add an extra pound to your lifts.
History (and this board) are full of very strong people who got that way without worrying about insulin sensitivity or whether broccili or cabbage is more nutritionally dense.
You're a young man, you're a lot more robust than you think.
Also, approach things with more critical thinking - asking vegans for healthy eating advice is rather suspect. I respect vegans/vegetarians who do so for moral reasons, but if they try to tell you the diet is healthier, they're talking crap. We're omnivores, eating meat is perfectly natural (including red meat), and there're plenty of health benefits from doing so. Many people eat large amounts of red meat and are very healthy.

And you'll care less about a little belly-flab when you've got some solid muscle underneath it. Not to mention that you'll find it easier to drop fat then - muscle takes calories just to maintain, not to mention you'll have a healthier metabolism.

Definitely true. I used to spend hours researching sports supplements in search for the magic formulae which would add those slabs of muscle I so desperately want instead of just getting my ass down to the gym and lifting heavy.
Although i'm now quite skeptical about sports supplements in general, about a year ago I was entranced by the BSN hype, and gave into their clever marketing. Spent 100s of pounds on their worthless products and really regretted it. Enjoyed the buzz and the pump whilst it lasted, which a few months down the line I regretted as I saw very little in the way of 'real' strength and size gains which could justify the amount of money spent.
Definitely not going down the supplement path again. Now I just stick to EFAs and certain vitamins to help support general good health rather than 'size and strength' gains. I do still use creatine MH though.

[MazdaMatt]

Have you seen the movie "Conan the Barbarian"? Think to yourself what would make Conan big and strong?

Hard work, meat and milk.

SS = hard work
Just add meat and milk and become Conan.

[Sami]

http://captionsearch.com/pix/tiqtdcb570.jpg

[gzt]

http://captionsearch.com/pix/tiqtdcb570.jpg

Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide.
No escape from reality.

[Carlos Daniel]

http://www.youtube.com/v/UURIs159pYI

We are the squatters, my friend
(...)
No time for biceps
'cause were are the squatters
Of Rippetoe

[Tom Campitelli]

Have you seen the movie "Conan the Barbarian"? Think to yourself what would make Conan big and strong?

Hard work, meat and milk.

SS = hard work
Just add meat and milk and become Conan.

Actually, you forgot the smart use of anabolic steroids. Arnold was no stranger to the needle.

[MazdaMatt]

Sure... I really meant to not look beyond the character to the actor.

Incidentally, Ahnold apparently used much less juice back in the day than the common bodybuilder today... But he was a genetic freak of genetic freaks.

[Tom Campitelli]

Some advice:

Train hard. Eat real, whole foods. Sleep well. Rinse, repeat. This is the secret.

Meat (red and other), eggs, and fish should be parts of your diet because they are dense sources of high quality protein. Humans have been eating meat for as long as they have been an identifiable species. Precursors to homo sapiens ate meat, too. We've literally got well over a million years of meat eating in our genes. Eat protein with every meal.
Milk is a wonderful food, but it should not be all that you eat. Milk is a nice supplement to a solid diet. Depending on how much you want to grow, you drink more milk.
Veggies are wonderful. Eat them with every meal if possible. Fruit is good, too.
Fat is essential and is not to be avoided.
Grains are fine, especially if growth is a goal. Some people do better with wheat than others. Grains generally are not as nutritionally dense as the foods above.

[tertius]

Oh and the thing about the onion juice - it's very rich in allyl propyl disulfide and chromium which increase insulin senstivitivty. Just found out that the reasearch was all done in Iran though, so I think the science might be a bit 'shaky'. I've ditched that.

You have an Astrologer...
and yet you're concerned that the science coming out of Iran might not be up to par?

The mind, she boggles.

[Monster]

You have an Astrologer...
and yet you're concerned that the science coming out of Iran might not be up to par?

The mind, she boggles.

Or as drew says, "mind bottling"

ha

[aussieluke]

Some advice:

Train hard. Eat real, whole foods. Sleep well. Rinse, repeat. This is the secret.

Meat (red and other), eggs, and fish should be parts of your diet because they are dense sources of high quality protein. Humans have been eating meat for as long as they have been an identifiable species. Precursors to homo sapiens ate meat, too. We've literally got well over a million years of meat eating in our genes. Eat protein with every meal.
Milk is a wonderful food, but it should not be all that you eat. Milk is a nice supplement to a solid diet. Depending on how much you want to grow, you drink more milk.
Veggies are wonderful. Eat them with every meal if possible. Fruit is good, too.
Fat is essential and is not to be avoided.
Grains are fine, especially if growth is a goal. Some people do better with wheat than others. Grains generally are not as nutritionally dense as the foods above.

Yes to all of this except grains. Eat meat, eggs, veg, some fruit, and plenty of good fat (ie animal fat - meat, eggs, butter, heavy cream. Coconut is great too).

Avoid all grains, sugar and legumes like the plague. Without these your digestion will be better and you won't spend half you day shitting away all the nutrients from the good stuff you are eating. We are not designed to eat this shit. It is not food.

[MazdaMatt]

"We are not designed to eat this shit. It is not food. "

That's a bit of a stretch and the opinion of a small community of "nutrition gurus". I personally digest grains sugar and legumes just fine, thank you.

The notion that sugar is not food and can't be digested is just silly. Just plain silly.

Try not to take nutrition advise as biblical dogma.

[aussieluke]

"We are not designed to eat this shit. It is not food. "

That's a bit of a stretch and the opinion of a small community of "nutrition gurus". I personally digest grains sugar and legumes just fine, thank you.

The notion that sugar is not food and can't be digested is just silly. Just plain silly.

Try not to take nutrition advise as biblical dogma.

Sugar has no nutritional value and will do nothing but make you fat.

Grains and legumes are designed not to be eaten and are full of toxins. Only by cooking them do they become 'edible'. Doesn't sound like food to me.

Try eating a bag of raw flour.

Humans are built to eat animals, vegetables and fruit. How does this not make sense?

[misspelledgeoff]

have you read good calories bad calories yet?

digestion of this stuff (sugar and refinined flour) is not the issue. it's what it does to you after digestion if you eat a great deal of it(ie, chronically high insulin, preferentially partitioning calories to fat, triglyceride increase in the case of sucrose) . maybe not an issue for you, but for people sensitive to this stuff (e.g., me) it wreaks havoc.


"We are not designed to eat this shit. It is not food. "

That's a bit of a stretch and the opinion of a small community of "nutrition gurus". I personally digest grains sugar and legumes just fine, thank you.

The notion that sugar is not food and can't be digested is just silly. Just plain silly.

Try not to take nutrition advise as biblical dogma.

[Paul Sousa]

Have you seen the movie "Conan the Barbarian"? Think to yourself what would make Conan big and strong?

Hard work, meat and milk.

SS = hard work
Just add meat and milk and become Conan.

Are you suggesting he push a giant wooden wheel for roughly ten or so years?

[MazdaMatt]

Sugar has no nutritional value and will do nothing but make you fat.

Grains and legumes are designed not to be eaten and are full of toxins. Only by cooking them do they become 'edible'. Doesn't sound like food to me.

Try eating a bag of raw flour.

Humans are built to eat animals, vegetables and fruit. How does this not make sense?

It does not make sense because I DO cook my grains, I don't eat bags of raw flower and because a diet of 500 calories of sugar and nothing else would not make a person fat. Sugar does have nutritional value - it provides quickly usable calories for your body.

How does this not make sense?

I never understood the premise behind taking nutrition and life advice from guys that had a life expenctancy of 25 years.

[MazdaMatt]

have you read good calories bad calories yet?

digestion of this stuff (sugar and refinined flour) is not the issue. it's what it does to you after digestion if you eat a great deal of it(ie, chronically high insulin, preferentially partitioning calories to fat, triglyceride increase in the case of sucrose) . maybe not an issue for you, but for people sensitive to this stuff (e.g., me) it wreaks havoc.

No, i haven't. I also don't eat a great deal of these things. I eat intelligently. If you ate 20thousand calories in nuts every day you'd be fat. that's no reason to stop eating nuts. Try to take the sensationalism out of your diet decisions - dismiss the dogma.

[MazdaMatt]

Are you suggesting he push a giant wooden wheel for roughly ten or so years?

I've seen people do other things for ten years and not look like arnold :)

Work hard, eat big, eat smart

[misspelledgeoff]

I agree. I don't think I said anything dogmatic or sensationalist though.


No, i haven't. I also don't eat a great deal of these things. I eat intelligently. If you ate 20thousand calories in nuts every day you'd be fat. that's no reason to stop eating nuts. Try to take the sensationalism out of your diet decisions - dismiss the dogma.

[MazdaMatt]

I agree. I don't think I said anything dogmatic or sensationalist though.

No, you didn't... he did:


Avoid all grains, sugar and legumes like the plague. Without these your digestion will be better and you won't spend half you day shitting away all the nutrients from the good stuff you are eating. We are not designed to eat this shit. It is not food.


Sugar has no nutritional value and will do nothing but make you fat.
...
Try eating a bag of raw flour.

[Tom Campitelli]

There certainly is evidence that grains and legumes are not the best things in the world to be eating. However, the arguments that they are full of toxins is rather silly. You may need to cook them in order to eat them, but that strikes me as being okay. I like to cook meat and vegetables, too. I find cooked broccoli both easier to eat and easier to digest than raw. It is instructive to look at some other populations that eat a lot of rice and soy. Let's take the Japanese. They are the longest lived motherf*ckers on the planet. They also tend to be relatively free of obesity when compared to Western nations, although this is starting to change. The Japanese eat rice and soy like it is going out of style. Show me the bodies of the dead who eat these toxins.

What does this mean? It means that there are few simple answers to complex problems. Diet is not well understood in many regards and represents just one variable in a very complex system that defies easy characterization. Yes, I am well aware of the Paleo arguments. Yes, I find some of them sound. Yes, the diet works seems to work for quite a few folks and represents a pretty healthful model for eating. No, the Paleo adherents are not right about everything. In fact, several claims put forth by Robb Wolf et al. are on very shaky ground if not demonstrably false. Leaky gut, anyone? Hypochloridia? Candida overgrowth? Gluten causes non-Hodgkins lymphoma? For fuck's sake...

Yes, I have done the Paleo diet and it very successfully took 15 to 20 pounds off my squats. Look, feel, and perform better? Don't know about looks, but I felt fine before and I certainly took a performance hit. I probably felt a little worse on the Paleo diet. Now I drink milk again and sometimes have some grains. I continue to get stronger. Miracle of miracles. How can this be if I consume these terrible toxins on a regular basis?

Geoff, not surprisingly, is right on the money as far as sugar and insulin response goes.

[mstrofbass]

As long as I don't hear "we evolved eating meat, so our body isn't designed to process carbs" I won't say anything on the subject.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

I think i'm inclined to agree with matt on this one. I honestly don't understand why the more health 'conscious' among us dislike whole grains and tubers.

This diet was just an experiment gone wrong, but i've noticed I feel most energetic throughout the day when I base my diet around starchy whole foods.

This whole idea that we modern day humans need to stick to meat, veg and fruits because it's out 'natural' diet is illogical. Our physiology is similar to, but not identical to our cave dwelling ancestors who tore through raw flesh and ate tough plant matter. We no longer have strong mandibles like they do. Nor do have the gastrointestinal tract or appendix to digest tough plant matter.

Why?

Because we learned to cook food. Some experts have gone as far as stating that "Man's ability to digest starchy foods like the potato may explain our success on the planet" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6983330.stm this article raises some really interesting points). And of course with the introduction of agriculture we learned to raise crops and dairy, consequently triggering mutations allowing us to produce vast quantities of amylase in saliva to digest starch and even as adults we can produce lactase to digest milk sugars which is unique to modern humans.

And this is the way we have been living for thousands of years. Of course meat has it's place in the diet but as the expert in the article explains - "Even when you look at modern human hunter-gatherers, meat is a relatively small fraction of their diet.

"To think that, two to four million years ago, a small-brained, awkwardly bipedal animal could efficiently acquire meat, even by scavenging, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense."

Grains, potatoes and dairy are staple foods in most developed countries and I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest they have been for thousands of years. And very healthy ones too.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Yes, I have done the Paleo diet and it very successfully took 15 to 20 pounds off my squats. Look, feel, and perform better? Don't know about looks, but I felt fine before and I certainly took a performance hit. I probably felt a little worse on the Paleo diet. Now I drink milk again and sometimes have some grains. I continue to get stronger. Miracle of miracles. How can this be if I consume these terrible toxins on a regular basis?

Geoff, not surprisingly, is right on the money as far as sugar and insulin response goes.

lol true, I think most of the weight loss achieved by diets like paleo are less to do with the food choices being in 'natural harmony' with our bodies and more to do with the fact that fat people desperate to lose weight are the ones most inclined to try it. And also because the boring food choices could likely lead to a serious caloric deficit - because, to be honest if all I could eat was meat, fruit, nuts etc then quite frankly I think I would get real bored , real fast and would eventually try and avoid eating unless I really had to (probably why it's so successful for fat people who like to eat for fun).

Don't get me wrong, i'm totally up for pizza hut or dominoes once in a while, but I know more than a few times a month isn't really in my best interest :/

[Age_of_Aquarius]

As long as I don't hear "we evolved eating meat, so our body isn't designed to process carbs" I won't say anything on the subject.

Some guy tried eating a flesh only diet for a year. It didn't go so well. http://www.ergo-log.com/meatonly.html

[Tom Campitelli]

Even when you look at modern human hunter-gatherers, meat is a relatively small fraction of their diet

Depends on who you choose to look at.


To think that, two to four million years ago, a small-brained, awkwardly bipedal animal could efficiently acquire meat, even by scavenging, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Chimps and other primates manage to do it. Further, four million years is a while back. Our ancestors were somewhat different from us when you travel far enough into the past. Whatever the case, meat was probably part of the diet in one form or fashion.


Grains, potatoes and dairy are staple foods in most developed countries and I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest they have been for thousands of years. And very healthy ones too.

Maybe, maybe not. We're pretty adaptable. What foods we run on the best is a difficult thing to answer. Are grains and potatoes good for us? Could be. There are quite a few people that don't do that well with gluten, which is found in grains. The unfortunate fact is that muscle is built from protein. Grains, fruits, and veggies don't have a lot of that.


I think most of the weight loss achieved by diets like paleo are less to do with the food choices being in 'natural harmony' with our bodies and more to do with the fact that fat people desperate to lose weight are the ones most inclined to try it.

Not true. The Paleo Diet has a lot of adherents because it does provide caloric restriction while also providing good satiety. People aren't hungry because protein is very satiating and in the absence of grains, sugars, and other dense carb sources there is less interference with the chemical signaling to indicate when people are full. It also has a compelling hypothetical underpinning. Whether those hypotheses are correct has yet to be demonstrated, but it does look like there is something there.

To be clear, I am neither an advocate nor a fierce critic of the paleo diet. I just think that when people say "Grains are the greatest," or "Grains are toxic," that the truth probably lies somewhere between those extremes.


Some guy tried eating a flesh only diet for a year. It didn't go so well.

That's not surprising.

[drewcarroll2]

Or as drew says, "mind bottling"

ha

It's a movie reference, I'm not that retarded........

[drewcarroll2]

we evolved eating meat, so our body isn't designed to process carbs..................

poke

[Tom Campitelli]

we evolved eating meat, so our body isn't designed to process carbs..................

poke

Awesome.

[MazdaMatt]

Some guy tried eating a flesh only diet for a year. It didn't go so well. http://www.ergo-log.com/meatonly.html

Inuits. <- case in point; you are okay with eating what your ancestors haev eaten... mine are dutch and live off meat and potatoes and bread.

[tertius]

It does not make sense because I DO cook my grains, I don't eat bags of raw flower and because a diet of 500 calories of sugar and nothing else would not make a person fat. Sugar does have nutritional value - it provides quickly usable calories for your body.

How does this not make sense?

I never understood the premise behind taking nutrition and life advice from guys that had a life expenctancy of 25 years.

Who has a life expectancy of 25 years?
You mean hunter-gatherer humans? If you think that's the case, you need to do some reading, dude.
The 'nasty-brutish-short-destitute' view put out by Malthus and Hobbes (based on the grinding poverty of the poor of their own time) is total horse shit.

[misspelledgeoff]

Age_of_Queerness, my predictions about you are coming to fruition. Post count >1000 and squat < 200 pounds. My original prediction was for 2011 but I'll double down for 2010.

[ColoWayno]

I find cooked broccoli both easier to eat and easier to digest than raw.

I hope you are happy now that you've sent dozens to their deaths eating this goitrogeneous poison.

[mstrofbass]

Some guy tried eating a flesh only diet for a year. It didn't go so well. http://www.ergo-log.com/meatonly.html

lol

[Tom Campitelli]

I hope you are happy now that you've sent dozens to their deaths eating this goitrogeneous poison.

I am here to hurt.

[MazdaMatt]

I've decided to give up grains, start wearing only animal skins and fix my car using only tools that I have fashioned from sticks and rocks in the yard.

[Alyion]

Plus you can only drive the car if you do it using your legs, flintstones style

[slowjoe]

Age_of_Queerness, my predictions about you are coming to fruition. Post count >1000 and squat < 200 pounds. My original prediction was for 2011 but I'll double down for 2010.

I think he'll get to 200. This year even.

Obviously, he isn't going to get to 250 (or the 400 his genes entitle him to) while he's manorexic.

[jerji]

AoA, have you read this? http://startingstrength.com/articles/novice_effect_rippetoe.pdf

It should abate your desire to complicate things for a while, at least. Just eat, do the program and you'll see results. There's no reason to think about cutting right now or weirdo milk-only diets. Revisit that idea after six months of disciplined SS if you must.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

Something unexpected happened yesterday. I ended up having one too many drinks the night before which as you know can end up being a diuretic (first time i've drank in months) and I hadn't taken any creatine for a week either. So I woke the next day parched and on my way to kitchen I took a look in the mirror and their they were - defined abs! I've never seen this much definition in my abs before in my entire life and it felt good. I think most of that 'jigglyness' was water weight rather than fat.

So i've come to the conclusion that it is almost time for me to jack up the caloric intake and pack on some good size to my frame, and more importantly - get some serious strength! I'm aiming for 3500 calories solid. For the past month or so i've been on 1500-1800 cals and have still experienced strength gains so 3500 seems plenty for me.

I'm just waiting until i've finished this bottle of ECA I purchased since it's the only thing which seems to help burn fat (besides clen which I tried once, but that shit was just plain nasty!). And it would just seem like a waste of money if I binned the stuff at this point. But after that i'm going to be eating big and lifting big!

[Age_of_Aquarius]

AoA, have you read this? http://startingstrength.com/articles/novice_effect_rippetoe.pdf

It should abate your desire to complicate things for a while, at least. Just eat, do the program and you'll see results. There's no reason to think about cutting right now or weirdo milk-only diets. Revisit that idea after six months of disciplined SS if you must.


Yeah man, that exactly what I plan to do as soon as my ECA is finished.

[slowjoe]

Yeah man, that exactly what I plan to do as soon as my ECA is finished.

What is ECA and clen?

[Carlos Daniel]

What is ECA and clen?

Bodybuilding stuff to burn fat. ECA is Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin, a classic fat burner cocktail and clen is clenbuterol.

[Dixen]

Thats hardcore dude... Straight from clenbuterol to onion juice!

[Age_of_Aquarius]

no

[slowjoe]

I like to experiment with nutrition to see what works, although I think I pay a little too much attention to so called 'experts' and their research studies. Going to stop doing that.

Clen was real nasty stuff though. I took it for under a week, I did notice I lost weight in those 5-6 days but the side effects were terrible esp the nose bleeds, but the muscle cramps were worse. And I only took 40mcg ED! ( Although It was the good quality 'yansuan' stuff).

Lol. The only supplement I've ever bought is a tub of protein powder in my cupboard. I've just checked, and it's A) unopened and B) expired Feb 2010.

Just lift 3 times a week, eat, rest well and avoid injury. The human body will take care of the rest. I noticed the start of a 6pack today, and I don't do "abz" or "cutting" or "food studies".

[MazdaMatt]

I noticed the start of a 6pack today

This is when I know I need to eat more. My recovery is inversely proportioned to my abzors.

[Bodybeing]

Fair play to you AoA, you kept replying even when people were slating you. Is the message of this thread to just be like the Calcium Kid?