Foam rolling

[PapaBear59]

I just finished looking at the Referral section of the Roundtable and I listening to Wendler talk about rolling with a PVC pipe. Do you know of any good videos out there on Youtube that shows the proper technique? I have pulled up a few but I am not sure of the qualifications of the people demonstrating them.

I have been having my wife take an old rolling pin and run it up an down my IT bands and pressing down as hard as she can. At first it hurt so bad I thought I was going to s**t on myself and wondered how in the hell could this be any good for me. However, after a couple of sessions the pain and tightness in sides of my knees subsided and lifting improved in just the fact that I was not dreading doing squats.

This is why I am researching learning how to do rolling for the entire body.

[SDAssassin]

Was just thinking the same thing myself, i have a hard cardboard inner tube that i use, would be very similiar to a pvc pipe but i only use it only my upper back. I have never used it on any other muscles, solely because i don't know what to do. So as PapaBear stated above, some videos on how to do proper foam rolling would be great, especially some lower body stuff.

[LarsM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8caF1Keg2XU

[OITW]

http://www.amazon.com/TriggerPoint-GRID-Revolutionary-Roller-Black/dp/B002KE6TMC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1284974317&sr=8-5

I bought this, but it's not really much more expensive than a plain foam roller, basically some rubber like a tennis-shoe sole wrapped around a PVC pipe. Painful, but now I swear by it.

[Tom Campitelli]

There's not a whole lot of technique to know. You can roll up and down along the length of a muscle, or if you are ready to join the ranks of those who fear the foam roller, find a spot that hurts and put your weight on it for 20 to 30 seconds. Work down the front and sides of your leg that way. I guarantee you that you will want to stop after a short while. It is really uncomfortable. Unfortunately, it is also really effective.

[Tom Campitelli]

Also, check out this site:

http://mobilitywod.blogspot.com/

It's probably best to start from the beginning since the current episodes often reference previous episodes.

[gzt]

Sounds like you have the right idea with the foam rolling. You might get bruising. That's okay. This is one of the few times it's okay to hurt a lot and bruise. It might hurt so much you start to feel a little sick. That's when you're definitely on the right track. Remember: strong men also cry.

MobilityWOD is great stuff. I feel like he goes too fast, like I need several days to work on each episode, but it's great that it's all getting out there.

[Skander]

This was posted in another thread (http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=15435):
http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/downloads/Self-Myofascial-Release-Purpose-Methods-and-Techniques.pdf

[Blairbob]

For the PVC pipe, 3 inch PVC at HomeDepot works. Costs like $3-5. Maybe 4 or 5 inch might more sense for you big guys. I thought about covering it with something soft, but why bother.

[Tom Campitelli]

Remember: strong men also cry.

Choice Big Lebowski quote.

[confuzzl3don3]

What's the thinking/consensus for foam-rolling injuries? I found that stretching out my adductor injury seemed to do more harm than good, straining it and putting it in more discomfort. Since foam rolling is meant to mash the muscle fascia and stuff would that be a good idea to use with injuries?

[ChrisGibbons]

Joe Defranco has some video of foam rolling as part of his Agile 8 and Simple 6 warmup routines. You can search his site for the vids. From memory he includes IT band release, a glute myofascial release with a lax ball and a really painful (but useful) rolling on the lat insertion under the armpit.

[fmerges]

I made my own one the other day, I used a 110 mm PVC tube and got for free a piece of foam insulation tape the ones used for insulation of pipes more than 1 meter width :-) and then I just used duct tape as the foam is "sensitive". I've been using it for some days, but I have to say, I'm not so happy with it because of the diameter, I'm thinking of doing another one with a smaller pipe like a 75 mm or so and also shorter, this one is like 90 cm. Even so somehow I still prefer the tennis ball.

[Campbell]

i use a round bottle filled up with water and frozen as my foam roller.

[LimieJosh]

What's the thinking/consensus for foam-rolling injuries? I found that stretching out my adductor injury seemed to do more harm than good, straining it and putting it in more discomfort. Since foam rolling is meant to mash the muscle fascia and stuff would that be a good idea to use with injuries?

Maybe not so much in the immediate acute period, but certainly should be done once you're ready to start the Star protocol. Knots form around the location of the injury where the adjacent fibers become taut and spasticly contracted. That increased tension puts those fibers at greater risk of re/injury once you start asking them to work. If you focus a static pressure on the knot rather than rolling the entire length of the muscle really helps it relax, which then reduces the risk of reinjury. Understandably its more painful, but it works. Also, I find a ball, like a lacrosse ball (you can change according to the size needed to work the specific location properly), better enables you to focus on one specific knot rather than a roller.

I guess in my experience it isnt rehab by itself, but helps significantly with the star protocol type aspect of the rehab.

[Mulgere Hircum]

Cressey's Maximum Strength book has a fairly detailed explanation of foam rolling.

[ILiftAlone]

Clair Davies "Trigger Point Therapy Workbook". Shows all the potential trigger points for any given pain, and gives instruction on how to locate and isolate the muscles that need massage. I refer to this book all the time when my body is aching and probably wouldn't be training right now without it. I don't know if this info is available on the web or not since I haven't searched, but if you want a book to refer to this would be it.

As far as the roller is concerned, I use either a softball, a baseball or some thick pvc. The baseball works really well for all the shoulder muscles in the upper back and traps. The softball or pvc works better for the larger muscles in the legs and glutes.

[Baltix]

Thanks OP for posting exactly what I was wondering. I also wanted to see if there's a recommended size 3-4"? for PVC? Wendler recommended athletic tape.. any other suggestions to coat the pipe? I'm a tad over 300 lbs and worry I'd break the pipe though, and that would hurt.

[Wayne Riddle]

For the PVC pipe, 3 inch PVC at HomeDepot works. Costs like $3-5. Maybe 4 or 5 inch might more sense for you big guys. I thought about covering it with something soft, but why bother.

I covered it with a cutup yoga mat to give it a littl emore grip, keeps the pip from shooting out from under me.

[LimieJosh]

Holy PVC. I upgraded today to a 2" diameter PVC pipe. Areas of my legs that were previously immune to, what I know to be shitty, foam roller were crying on the first pass. I am now Ibuprofined up to my eyeballs and icing my achillies.

I still think I need one with a larger diameter though to effectively get my hamstrings.

[LimieJosh]

Anyone have thoughts on the appropriate state of the muscle you're working on? I've recently done some experimenting on some hip flexor/IT band issues and found I get the best results when I roll with my knee bent.which puts them at a bit of a stretch.

[JC]

makes sense, if a muscle is slack it will just bend away from the pressure so you'll have to push harder to get the benefit; but if you're trying to work the deeper tissues you may be better working relaxed muscles so the pressure isn't restricted to the fascia or surface, but through the whole tissue depth (the pliable tissues will move but the tighter, restricted tissues will not be able to so well and thus feel the pressure)

Also, i entered the national erection championships last week; got to the semis but was squeezed out by stiff competition

[Kate]

A hip pain I thought I had gotten rid of has come back in the past couple weeks, and is worse. Best guess is a massive trigger point / knot thingie around the piriformis. I can sometimes feel an odd sensation (not pain, more like tingling) radiating down the leg and into the foot. Pain isn't bad if my legs are facing forward, but external rotation really hurts.

Rolling the area with my foam roller or a tennis ball (tried both, several times) is seriously painful. (And rising from the squat is painful, and getting worse. Had to cut the workout short today.)

So... just how painful is this rolling supposed to be -- like on a scale from 1 ("meh") to 10 ("holy crap!"). Should I keep trying the rolling, or could I be making this thing worse?

Thanks.

(Time to try Kelley Starrett's mobility stuff, I s'pose. Geez, this getting older is inconvenient.)

Edited to add: Is it time for a vicious massage? I wonder if that would be more effective than the foam rolling. And do I use heat? ice? ibuprofen?

[Tom Campitelli]

Pain radiating down the leg is often indicative of some disc involvement. Not necessarily disc herniation, but a pissed off spine. Approach this with some care.

Foam rolling can be incredibly painful. Like getting burned, or having someone stick a large guage needle into you.

[Kate]

Pain radiating down the leg is often indicative of some disc involvement. Not necessarily disc herniation, but a pissed off spine. Approach this with some care.

Hmmm. OK. The pain is very localized and feels like a muscle-related thing; it's just the tingling that can travel downward.

The tingling/numbness could be unrelated; my circulation isn't great, and my hands & feet fall asleep often & get cold easily. But my right foot falls asleep more often (that's been true for at least a year, maybe two), and that's the side with the hip pain. Hmmm....

I don't have a history of back pain or disc problems. I do have some osteopenia in the spine and the left hip; some osteoporosis in the right hip. (Had the baseline DEXA scan about 2 years ago.) It wasn't bad enough to start taking Fosamax or similar meds; I was just told to take more calcium & vitamin D, which I have been doing. (The DEXA scan was before I started lifting.)

This recent pain could be resulting from something as simple as sleeping in weird positions (I sleep on my side, and sometimes wake up with one arm asleep). Whatever it is, it's annoying 'cause it's interfering with my lifting.



Foam rolling can be incredibly painful. Like getting burned, or having someone stick a large guage needle into you.Well, there's certainly a surprisingly nasty, very localized pain when I foam-roll the area in question.

I tend to have a low pain threshold, so I wonder if I foam-rolled the area enough to irritate it but not enough to make a dent in the knot, or trigger point, or whatever the hell it's called. I'll try again... carefully.

Thanks for the response.

[Tom Campitelli]

You'll definitely know if the pain is spinal. It is quite unique. If your pain is muscular, then foam rolling is wise. Foam rolling and stretching can result in increased soreness initially, but will often result in decreased pain later on. If it hurts a lot with a foam roller, then it probably needs the foam roller. When you are ready for the next stage of discomfort, there is the lacrosse ball. That thing is even worse.

[LimieJosh]

Kate, for clarification, is the piriformis/glute area the site of the pain or where you suspect the cause of pain to originates from?

[Kate]

You'll definitely know if the pain is spinal. It is quite unique.

That is reassuring. Thanks.


....If it hurts a lot with a foam roller, then it probably needs the foam roller. When you are ready for the next stage of discomfort, there is the lacrosse ball. That thing is even worse.I don't have a lacrosse ball (yet), but just tried a tennis ball again, and holy cow, that hurts. I have to remind myself to breathe!



Kate, for clarification, is the piriformis/glute area the site of the pain or where you suspect the cause of pain to originates from?

Um... both? (Are you thinking it's referred pain from somewhere else? Could be. I don't know much about this stuff.)

The outer, and mid to lower, glute area is where the rolling hurts the most right now. And when I'm squatting or coming up from the squat -- with my hips externally rotated -- that's also when that area hurts, although <steps away from keyboard to experiment> the pain also seems to move down a little bit. Maybe there's some IT band involvement there.

Sorry if I'm being an anatomy dummy; I'm looking at diagrams of muscles, but I have trouble translating the 2D stuff on the page/screen into 3D stuff in my head & on my body.

Edited to add: I was thinking piriformis because of where it is in relation to the sciatic nerve. After aggravating the area with a tennis-ball roll, I now have some numbness down my right leg & in my right foot.

[LimieJosh]

Um... both? (Are you thinking it's referred pain from somewhere else? Could be. I don't know much about this stuff.)

The outer, and mid to lower, glute area is where the rolling hurts the most right now. And when I'm squatting or coming up from the squat -- with my hips externally rotated -- that's also when that area hurts, although <steps away from keyboard to experiment> the pain also seems to move down a little bit. Maybe there's some IT band involvement there.

I ask because I have experienced similar, and triggered by the exact same two things - coming out of the bottom of the squat and external rotation of the femur. However, for me, the pain is in the TFL/IT band. Because of the problem with external rotation I thoght the problem was maybe originating in the glutes/piriformis areas and so started doing some more dedicated SMR and stretching work on that area. Its definitely provided some relief, I find the IT band itself is easier to work with and roll afterwards, but the issue is still largely there. I am still trying different things so will be interested to hear your progress.

[Kate]

I ask because I have experienced similar, and triggered by the exact same two things - coming out of the bottom of the squat and external rotation of the femur. ... I find the IT band itself is easier to work with and roll afterwards, but the issue is still largely there. I am still trying different things so will be interested to hear your progress.

Ah, OK. I'll let you know what works (or doesn't). I will probably try some more foam or tennis-ball rolling tonight.

I was only mildly sore when I got up this morning, and I didn't have any trouble shoveling about 8" of snow off the driveway (or throwing snowballs for the Black Lab next door to catch). But then 30 seconds with the tennis ball made things hurt the rest of the day. Gee, can't wait to do more of that...

[Carlos Daniel]

I had something very similar to that only without sciatica symptoms. Tennis ball and ibuprofen didn't help, it downright solved it. I had the damn thing for a whole month and it solved it in a week.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

Every time I foam roll, I encounter one particular area that is very painful and makes the attached foot tingle. The spot is in the same place on both legs: on the outside of the thigh, about 4-6 inches north of the knee.

Question: Is this a trigger point/adhesion/knot that I need to ravage, or am I just cranking down on my common peroneal nerve a la pressure point manipulation?

Thanks in advance.

[Carlos Daniel]

If it's bilateral and doesn't hurt otherwise, I think it's probably nothing.