The Benefits Of Vegetarianism [Archive] - Starting Strength Forums

HopefullyHuge

11-29-2010, 02:46 PM

I know many of you hardcore muscle lunks think this is bogus, but converting to vegetarianism will not only benefit your guns and wheels, but also your mind and soul.

I've set aside a few examples that will hopefully persuade you, or at the very least help you learn to accept people like me.

http://www.benefitsofvegetarianism.com/
http://www.vegetarian-nutrition.info/updates/vegetarian_diets_health_benefits.php
http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Smi-Z/Vegetarianism.html
http://www.epigee.org/vegetarian.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0820/is_1999_April/ai_54232138/
http://www.annecollins.com/vegetarian-diet-health-benefits.htm
http://vegetariancuisine.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_benefits_of_vegetarianism
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/13/benefits-of-vegetarianism_n_112431.html

Carlos Daniel

11-29-2010, 03:09 PM

So, have you guys heard about the shit that's been going on here in Rio?

HopefullyHuge

11-29-2010, 03:12 PM

So, have you heard about the shit that's been going on here in Rio?

I aint no mexican son.
Im Russian.

Aryian Aesthetics Brah, you mirin?

Carlos Daniel

11-29-2010, 03:14 PM

I'm quite white actually. I just shaved my head and at least 5 people at my university have asked if I turned into a skinhead or something. Black people run away from me, I dunno why.

Ian Kovtunovich

11-29-2010, 03:27 PM

Eric K

11-29-2010, 05:07 PM

This is an excited troll we have here today.

Marotta

11-29-2010, 06:05 PM

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/animalrights.jpg

The only good thing about PETA is the hot girls who take their clothes off to support it.

51M0n

11-29-2010, 06:45 PM

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/animalrights.jpg

The only good thing about PETA is the hot girls who take their clothes off to support it.

Lol.

I think somebody may be parodying AoA, judging by the hilarity of hte log they posted.

gamedog

11-30-2010, 07:21 AM

This is most definitely NOT one of my sock puppets.

Steve Hill

11-30-2010, 08:40 AM

So, have you guys heard about the shit that's been going on here in Rio?

Is that the thing with the tanks / guns / cops / drugs?

Steve Hill

11-30-2010, 08:41 AM

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-mur.jpg

fnet

11-30-2010, 09:13 AM

I just read this today. I thought it appropriate for this thread:
http://deadspin.com/5701409/at-long-last-my-reunion-with-red-meat

Age_of_Aquarius

11-30-2010, 04:46 PM

If you're going to promote the benefits of vegetarianism at least be scientifically objective about it. Retard.

Carlos Daniel

11-30-2010, 05:37 PM

Just so we know, you are gonna be serious from now on, AoA? or are we to suppose you are trolling when you use this account and serious when using the other ones?

Age_of_Aquarius

11-30-2010, 05:45 PM

Just so we know, you are gonna be serious from now on, AoA? or are we to suppose you are trolling when you use this account and serious when using the other ones?

I've decided to cut the crap and get back on the programme. I was going to do lots of HIIT to keep me trim over xmas, but I'm going to skip that.

Carlos Daniel

11-30-2010, 06:03 PM

That's nice, but since you admitted being a troll, I just wanna know: are you done with that crap or are you still on troll mode?

Ian Kovtunovich

11-30-2010, 06:05 PM

That's nice, but since you admitted being a troll, I just wanna know: are you done with that crap or are you still on troll mode?

Carlos, please don't feed the trolls!

Marotta

11-30-2010, 06:07 PM

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-mur.jpg

New MSN display picture.

The Emancipated Freak

01-03-2011, 04:41 PM

Some religious sects believe that murderers are reincarnated as vegans.

But in all seriousness if vegetarianism were better for weightlifting I'm sure these guys would be vegetarians.

Mulgere Hircum

01-03-2011, 05:16 PM

...or at the very least help you learn to accept people like me.

I come from Montana. In Montana, we hunt for food and because it's a manly tradition, and we ranch cattle because it pays the bills and is a manly tradition. But we don't try to pass laws against vegetarianism. On the other hand vegetarians are constantly assaulting my family history, culture, and way of life. I couldn't care less how you eat, but vegetarians sure care about how I eat. Until you guys can control your coastal meat-is-murder types who appear to do nothing with their entire lives but try to figure out how to control other people, it's war. There is no understanding so long as PETA and HSUS (far more dangerous than PETA) are not marginalized, ostracised, and powerless.

The ball is in your court, not mine.

cyhulhupun

01-03-2011, 06:31 PM

I come from Montana. In Montana, we hunt for food and because it's a manly tradition, and we ranch cattle because it pays the bills and is a manly tradition. But we don't try to pass laws against vegetarianism. On the other hand vegetarians are constantly assaulting my family history, culture, and way of life. I couldn't care less how you eat, but vegetarians sure care about how I eat. Until you guys can control your coastal meat-is-murder types who appear to do nothing with their entire lives but try to figure out how to control other people, it's war. There is no understanding so long as PETA and HSUS (far more dangerous than PETA) are not marginalized, ostracised, and powerless.

The ball is in your court, not mine.

I come from Michigan, and things are much like in Montana. The only difference is that we (men and women) hunt because we're poor. It's not so much a matter of manliness as it is a matter of survival.

Mulgere Hircum

01-03-2011, 08:10 PM

I come from Michigan, and things are much like in Montana. The only difference is that we (men and women) hunt because we're poor. It's not so much a matter of manliness as it is a matter of survival.

Yeah, Michigan is definitely hunting country--and great fishing, too, better than anywhere near where I grew up. I think we got to fish there a couple of times. What you're talking about is what i meant by the "for food" part; when I was a kid we could eat venison for nine months out of the year or so, and it really made a difference. My dad always said "if you take your boy hunting, you'll never have to go hunting your boy," so I just thought that was his reason. I never realized how important the meat was to our budget until I was grown. I think both were pretty important to him.

cannibal.horse

01-03-2011, 08:43 PM

Vegetarians are so lols. Somehow excluding 2-3 major food groups is healthy.

John2336

01-03-2011, 08:55 PM

My grandparents turned Vegan about 40 years ago after my Grandpa had a heart attack. They are both now in their mid 90's and get around fine on their own. Of course, my grandmothers has about 70 years of being a practicing (or retired) dietician, and she really knows how to put together complete meals with complementing vegetable proteins. I think to do it right, you have to really pay attention to what you're doing and know where you're nutrients are coming from and when they need to be supplemented. Either way, I've tried it, and it's not for me.

cannibal.horse

01-03-2011, 09:02 PM

John in order to maximise macro/micro nutrients in your diet you need as greater variety as possible. Excluding foods of any kind let alone entire food groups (meat, fish and dairy) isn't going to allow for this.

There might be ways to work around certain protein, vitimin and mineral deficiencies but its sure as hell not optimal.

John2336

01-03-2011, 09:26 PM

I agree man, that's why I don't do it. But I'll state again that my grandparent's are in excellent health for their age. I'll put it this way, my grandma still attends college classes to learn new stuff, and my 95 year old gramps walks 2 miles a day. I'm just saying that a healthy vegan lifestyle is possible when you know how to make it work to the minutest detail. I'm not saying it's easy, or a very tasty way to live. Like I said, my Grandma was a dietician for a lonnnnng time, so she's basically monitored every gram of food shes cooked for meals for the last 40 years since they went vegan. It's just her thing. Definitely not the easy route, but I credit their longevity to their eating habits to a large degree, as well as a proclivity in both their families to living into the 100's. (My Mothers side screws me on that one so I'm SOL)

I should add that they do occasionally eat eggs from my uncles farm. (he has pet chickens that lay damn tasty babies)

Mulgere Hircum

01-03-2011, 09:34 PM

At some point, what happens at advanced age becomes more and more about genetics. For every careful eater, there is someone who drank whiskey and lived on back bacon all their life and attributes their spry health at 95 to the alcohol and saturated fat. :-)

In any event, I wouldn't care about vegetarianism at all if they didn't try to take away my freedom with animal rights laws and such. Before I started lifting again my meat intake was pretty modest, which is kind of where I like it if I just eat to taste. But it's not a good lifting diet, especially for novices, and I'm a novice lifter, so now it's lots of red meat.

I'm just glad I never tried to lift on a vegetarian diet. That would be awful.

John2336

01-03-2011, 09:41 PM

I agree, It is probably due to their genetics for the most part, but it is notable that they'd lived long lives on a vegan diet. I agree that it seems like a bleak existence, but it can work for some. Did I also mention that they gives LOADs of cash to PETA every year lol.

Mulgere Hircum

01-03-2011, 10:03 PM

I agree, It is probably due to their genetics for the most part, but it is notable that they'd lived long lives on a vegan diet.

That doesn't surprise me. The Seventh-Day Aventists got that worked out in the nineteenth century pretty well, I think.

I agree that it seems like a bleak existence, but it can work for some. Did I also mention that they gives LOADs of cash to PETA every year lol.

Well, at least they're foolish enough to give it to PETA, which self-parodies itself so much it is not very effective. "Sea kittens," indeed--the jokes just write themselves. It is HSUS that is scary. Basically the saner (and more sinister) animal-rightistas decided to take over HSUS so they could use the name "humane society," which had a far better brand than "animal rights" (probably because they weren't associated with crazy oppressiveness). Of course, that left the crazier ones all to themselves in PETA. So encourage them to send their money to PETA, and make sure they never hear of HSUS.

PETA offered to take care of a beach that California was going to close because of our budget insanity, if only the state would re-name it "sea kitten beach." :-)

travelgirl1978

01-04-2011, 01:39 AM

PETA and the "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" stuff.

What about their leather shoes and bags?

John2336

01-04-2011, 05:43 AM

That doesn't surprise me. The Seventh-Day Aventists got that worked out in the nineteenth century pretty well, I think.

Well, at least they're foolish enough to give it to PETA, which self-parodies itself so much it is not very effective. "Sea kittens," indeed--the jokes just write themselves. It is HSUS that is scary. Basically the saner (and more sinister) animal-rightistas decided to take over HSUS so they could use the name "humane society," which had a far better brand than "animal rights" (probably because they weren't associated with crazy oppressiveness). Of course, that left the crazier ones all to themselves in PETA. So encourage them to send their money to PETA, and make sure they never hear of HSUS.

PETA offered to take care of a beach that California was going to close because of our budget insanity, if only the state would re-name it "sea kitten beach." :-)

LOL. They give money to an organization you don't agree with so theyre fools right? Got it, lol.

JM3

01-04-2011, 07:19 AM

I wonder if many animal rights issues wouldnt be solved with more natural ways of raising beef, chicken- Ive met some PETA folks, and they are indeed obnoxious- but also make decent points about how animals are treated on feedlots and commercial farms eg- theres a huge difference between shooting a deer and keeping calves in a pen for veal etc.
I dont think eating meat is a huge problem for lots of vegetarians- but animal cruelty is and thats not something I would dismiss out of hand- theres a middle ground somewhere.

seems like the issues would be greatly eased by changing farming models to allow for more grass finished products and less concentrated forms of production- like when family farms were smaller. This also does wonders for the quality of meat (omega acid ratios etc)

DutchPancakes

01-04-2011, 07:57 AM

Mulgere Hircum

01-04-2011, 08:30 AM

LOL. They give money to an organization you don't agree with so theyre fools right? Got it, lol.

Reading comprehension problems?

Thomas Padron-McCarthy

01-04-2011, 08:35 AM

What about their leather shoes and bags?

"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." - Unknown

JM3

01-04-2011, 08:37 AM

I wonder if it would be possible to raise/grow the amount of meat that people want to eat without intensive methods though, especially now that the inhabitants of lots of previously poor countries are discovering a taste for it.

I wonder this too- but consider this- ( Im only guessing) most beef production relies on corn etc- what if high intensity agriculture land were converted to pasture? I could be way off- but I wonder.. I get all my beef grass fed/finished It costs more, so that would be an issue as well. but we all know about cost right? Maybe someone who actually knows something will enlighten us.

JM3

01-04-2011, 08:37 AM

"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." - Unknown

uh oh- thats on my facebook page...

Mulgere Hircum

01-04-2011, 08:42 AM

...theres a huge difference between shooting a deer and keeping calves in a pen for veal etc.

There isn't actually for a consistent animal-rights position. Some individuals are inconsistent, but the movement is run by those who care the most (as with everything else) and they are consistent--they just know better than to always say where their endpoint is. The core issues are simple:

If meat is murder, then animals have the same rights as people.

If meat is murder, it is murder whether committed on a hillside in Kentucky or a slaughterhouse.

If animals have human rights, then owning a pet is slavery.

...and so on. There are many techniques to impose an unpopular agenda, and they use them. Pets are popular, so you don't say you're anti-pet. Instead, you try to get people to accept the idea that there is some pet that is immoral to own--whether it be because of rarity or intelligence or whatever. You also go after sources to regulate them out of existence--so you constantly talk about "puppy mills," and then use that rhetoric to pass laws that actually penalize good breeders more than actual puppy mills (since the latter has money to lobby, they're a harder target, so you take out the individuals who breed an occasional litter when they have customers--this makes no sense if your goal is to go after puppy mills, but that isn't your goal and people never notice the real effects of what you're doing). (The latter is an actual recent example here in California, BTW.)

There is usually, but not always, a second philosophical belief--that "unnatural" animals are an abomination, so that domesticated breeds should not exist. That is not *mandatory* for a consistent animal-rights position, but it is very common.

All of this is incompatible with human rights, so you have to choose. You can't support animal rights and human rights both. Unfortunately, we have a great number of people who don't believe in real human rights, so this is not an obstacle.

Kostas

01-04-2011, 08:55 AM

There is usually, but not always, a second philosophical belief--that "unnatural" animals are an abomination, so that domesticated breeds should not exist. That is not *mandatory* for a consistent animal-rights position, but it is very common.

All of this is incompatible with human rights, so you have to choose. You can't support animal rights and human rights both. Unfortunately, we have a great number of people who don't believe in real human rights, so this is not an obstacle.

Many of the more extreme animal rights supporters are pretty much nihilists anyway. They would consider humans as an abomination.

John2336

01-04-2011, 10:14 AM

Reading comprehension problems?

From you: Well, at least they're foolish enough to give it to PETA, which self-parodies itself so much it is not very effective.

What am I not comprehending? Lol

I'm not offended nor am I trying to pick a fight. I just thought your post was funny.

John2336

01-04-2011, 10:17 AM

PETA and the "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" stuff.

What about their leather shoes and bags?

They make shoes and bags out of other materials now too. Since the invention of weaving plant fibers and the use of plastics.

Mulgere Hircum

01-04-2011, 10:26 AM

From you: Well, at least they're foolish enough to give it to PETA, which self-parodies itself so much it is not very effective.

What am I not comprehending? Lol

You are not comprehending that what I called foolish was not giving to an organization I disagree with, but rather giving to the one that is politically ineffective and doesn't push the policy I disagree with very efficiently. It is foolish because it doesn't meet *their* goals.

Understand that I wholeheartedly approve of animal-rights people tossing their money where it does the least damage to society (PETA) rather than where it does the most (HSUS).

John2336

01-04-2011, 10:32 AM

You are not comprehending that what I called foolish was not giving to an organization I disagree with, but rather giving to the one that is politically ineffective and doesn't push the policy I disagree with very efficiently. It is foolish because it doesn't meet *their* goals.

Understand that I wholeheartedly approve of animal-rights people tossing their money where it does the least damage to society (PETA) rather than where it does the most (HSUS).

Okay, I'll reprase my statement: "LOL. They give money to an organization (whose practices) you don't agree with so theyre fools right? Got it, lol."

hopefully that clears things up for you lol.

Could you expand your point about seventh day adventists? I'm interested in hearing more about them. I didn't realize their were any Christians who didnt think animals were delicious. Except the Bhuddist Christians, but theyre really rare. :)

Mulgere Hircum

01-04-2011, 10:45 AM

Many of the more extreme animal rights supporters are pretty much nihilists anyway. They would consider humans as an abomination.

Indeed--that rabbit hole goes very, very deep. Occasionally they get caught saying so in public and then have to walk it back for the sake of not offending all the little old ladies who like pets and don't hate people but want to "do something for the poor puppies and kitties." I don't have the sources offhand, but animal rights leaders have argued, for example, that domesticated animals should be neutered or spayed and allowed to go extinct in one generation, that being more concerned about dogs than about segmented worms is simple species-based bigotry, that humans are a plague on the earth, and so on. The latter plays very, very well with the apocalyptic environmental movement, which is why there is so much crossover. Environmental disaster becomes a kind of divine judgement as Gaia's immune system destroys the filthy plague. We should probably call those people "self-hating humans."

I am also convinced that a lot of their supporters are actually projecting childhood trauma (these ones are almost never anti-pet and have no idea how many of the leaders actually are). The pattern is something like (1) they treat their pets like their children, (2) they imagine that there are animal abusers everywhere, (3) they think any odd animal behavior is evidence of past abuse, and (4) they devote their lives to "helping the animals" in some way.

Now, don't get me wrong--I'd be quite OK with horsewhipping someone who really is just cruel to animals. Such people aren't just being cruel, they are dangerous to society. The empathy they lack for animal suffering is the same empathy that prevents normal people from torturing humans, and people without such inhibitions are lacking a crucial element of humanity and capable of violence few of us would even be able to commit. But what I think is going on in the above case is that the person was either actually abused as a child, or has simply brooded to the point where they identify emotionally with abused children in a pathological way. Then this whole my-pet-is-my-child thing ends up transferring those feelings to animals. And of course that also leads to buying the idea that animals have human rights, because at that point they no longer really make a distinction, and to efforts to change the law to take away all of our rights in the effort to give them to animals.

Mulgere Hircum

01-04-2011, 10:53 AM

Okay, I'll reprase my statement: "LOL. They give money to an organization (whose practices) you don't agree with so theyre fools right? Got it, lol."

Their efforts at pursuing their own agenda are ineffective--yes, that is being foolish, by their own standards and not mine.

Could you expand your point about seventh day adventists? I'm interested in hearing more about them. I didn't realize their were any Christians who didnt think animals were delicious.

Not much, but I suppose WP won't be too far off:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventists#Health_and_diet

Now this is only from memory and so shouldn't be relied on, but I also recall hearing that when the secular vegetarian movement started they actually learned from how the Adventists ate, because they'd already learned (at least in a practical way, I don't know if they had any theory) to do things like assemble complete proteins from incomplete vegetable sources and to make a special effort to get nutrients that aren't as readily available from plants (I think iron merits special efforts on dark green leafy vegetables and such if you're not eating red meat).

Except the Bhuddist Christians, but theyre really rare. :)

About as rare as any other non-existent thing, I guess. The terms are mutually exclusive, and if people can just say they are contradictory things then words completely lose their meaning.

Regin Smidur

01-04-2011, 03:06 PM

Mulgere, it kind of sounds like your taking a fringe opinion in the animal rights scene and using it to paint all AR as nutters. Can you source this "animal rights leader" or "leaders" who calls for the extinction of domestic pets?

JM3

01-04-2011, 05:29 PM

I have certainly met folks who match Mulgeres description- more than a couple- but yeah, theres a middling portion to the movement who are more concerned with industrial farming practices than hunting or simply killing animals humanely- theres a lot that could be improved upon- not just with the way animals are treated- but with waste lagoons as well.
Mulgere's point with the extreme element is pretty well said- just leaves out a bunch of less nutty people with similar concerns.

Dastardly

01-04-2011, 06:06 PM

There is a clear benefit to vegetarianism;

You will save a lot of money.

Carlos Daniel

01-04-2011, 06:19 PM

And a lot of muscle too.

DutchPancakes

01-05-2011, 02:16 AM

They should hurry up and perfect cloned meat

Dastardly

01-05-2011, 06:58 AM

They should hurry up and perfect cloned meat

Cloned offspring are birthed by real animals in the normal manner, it would have no benefit other than guaranteeing that the offspring would all be identical. This is somewhat unecessary as current animal rearing practice has already been honed and perfected, being extremely productive.

JM3

01-05-2011, 07:25 AM

I recently spent time with a guy who does a lot of farmer market networking with public schools- sort of linking smaller markets together. He was telling me of the increasing difficulty of rural people who rely on meat to live to find slaughterhouses. also talking about how rural colleges ( North La was the area he was in) are cutting instruction on how to slaughter cows.even as local slaughterhouses get more centralized. Would be interesting if we spread some of that production out and diffused some of that impact, I dont know- Im really glad I buy most of my meat from the guy who raised it. Wonder what this country would look like if people got back to that lifestyle... lots of land in some of these places.

Dastardly

01-05-2011, 10:05 AM

We have a real problem with that in the UK too. Government legislations suggest that everything should be slaughtered in central licensed abboitoirs. So the farmers have to transport their cattle long distances by freight trucks to get them slaughtered. No farmers seem very happy about this as it is uneccessary grief for the animals, something the vegetarian types agree on.

At least all the Cattle/sheep in the UK get to be outside and eat grass. There is increasing demand to cut costs and adopt american style mega indoor farming to stay competitive with cheaper imports. I heard plans about the first British Mega Dairy opening recently. Not a good direction for us I think.

Eric K

01-06-2011, 10:44 AM

DutchPancakes

01-06-2011, 12:23 PM

Cloned offspring are birthed by real animals in the normal manner, it would have no benefit other than guaranteeing that the offspring would all be identical. This is somewhat unecessary as current animal rearing practice has already been honed and perfected, being extremely productive.

You are absolutely right. What I meant was lab-grown meat, or in-vitro meat. I was being very lazy/stupid with my choice of words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

If it makes PETA happy, then it must be good.

ColoWayno

01-06-2011, 12:30 PM

Maybe vegetarians can eat this stuff:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/generalscience/fish_food_020329.html

Bioengineer Morris Benjaminson is figuring out how to create fish on demand, to develop a device that would grow fresh flesh aboard a space ship to feed astronauts. One day, this hyper-bioengineered food could even reach your dinner table.

This is no fish story. Already, with NASA funding, Benjaminson has taken strips of goldfish and made them grow in his laboratory. Eventually, he sees no reason why you wouldn't want to munch fish sticks or chicken tenders developed without the assistance of any real animals.

Ian Kovtunovich

01-06-2011, 11:22 PM

Maybe vegetarians can eat this stuff:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/generalscience/fish_food_020329.html

Strips of...goldfish? Couldn't he be trying to grow some nice halibut or something?

ColoWayno

01-07-2011, 08:04 AM

Strips of...goldfish? Couldn't he be trying to grow some nice halibut or something?

Have'em with chips.

JM3

01-07-2011, 04:22 PM

Im so glad I read X Men as a child- I know where this all leads.

Ian Kovtunovich

01-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Im so glad I read X Men as a child- I know where this all leads.

Fuckin' adamantium claws?

JM3

01-08-2011, 09:07 AM

Yep. That's why I drink bottled water too. Ill need the polymers for space flight eventually

Ian Kovtunovich

01-08-2011, 09:50 AM

Yep. That's why I drink bottled water too. Ill need the polymers for space flight eventually

Mmmm...poooooolymerrrrrrsssss...

JM3

01-08-2011, 03:38 PM

on the real- that shit freaks me out.

The Emancipated Freak

01-16-2011, 11:11 PM

Are there any benefits of vegetarianism in any way, shape or form?

'Cause last I check, no.

Kyle Aaron

01-17-2011, 12:13 AM

In an effort to combat food contamination, agencies like the USDA exaccerbate it by encouraging centralized slaughterhouses and preventing farmers from slaughtering their own beef. It would be a lot better if there were more slaughterhouses rather than fewer...
It sounds almost like you believe in a free market rather than state-supported monopolies.

That sort of nonsense will not be tolerated in the modern West, I tell you!

As for me, my problem with vegetarians is the same as my problem with meat-eaters: most people have no fucking clue about cooking good tasty food that provides them with good nutrition. A fair number of vegetarians have the physiques of weakling Emos with anaemia, and a fair number of meat eaters have the physiques of Homer Simpson with the strength of Mr Burns. I'm all for people for being a healthy bodyweight with a good level of strength. Whether they get it with lentils or steak I don't care too much.

Eric K

01-18-2011, 01:33 PM

It sounds almost like you believe in a free market rather than state-supported monopolies.

That sort of nonsense will not be tolerated in the modern West, I tell you!

As for me, my problem with vegetarians is the same as my problem with meat-eaters: most people have no fucking clue about cooking good tasty food that provides them with good nutrition. A fair number of vegetarians have the physiques of weakling Emos with anaemia, and a fair number of meat eaters have the physiques of Homer Simpson with the strength of Mr Burns. I'm all for people for being a healthy bodyweight with a good level of strength. Whether they get it with lentils or steak I don't care too much.

I don't personally care what other people eat (as long as it's not human brains, because that means the zombie attack has already started and I haven't finished my bunker yet), that's also why I don't like it when people tell me what I can and can't eat (ref: the raw milk thread)...