What is "milk"?

[spiderman]

Has Rip ever clarified what he means by "milk"? In particular, what fat percentage does he think "milk" has?

Thanks.

[Marotta]

3.25 iirc

[Agent P]

street name Whole milk?

[barbhero]

Tuscan Whole Milk, 1 Gallon, 128 fl oz

[Eric K]

Define "is."

[ColoWayno]

Define "is."

Anything not taken orally.

If it's taken orally then it isn't. If it's taken through another orafice then it "is".

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Has there ever been a question about what Rip meant when he said milk?

[ColoWayno]

I pity those who have to drink shelf-stable milk. I had to for four months. Blech.

I was trying some non-homo milk. It was usually pretty good. Then I got a gallon that tasted like cow ass. It's also expensive, so I haven't been back. I really like the idea though. It was pasteurized but to the lowest legal limit.

[Eric K]

...non-homo milk...

Heh heh.

I drink raw milk, personally. Although, you're right it's friggin expensive (~$17/gallon) so I supplement it with some non-raw milk.

And no, I don't think any normal person wondered what kind of milk he means when he says, "Drink a gallon of whole milk a day," and, "The less we've fucked with it the better..." (Paraphrasing, but I've read it more than a few times in things he's written about it.)

[spiderman]

Has there ever been a question about what Rip meant when he said milk?

Clearly. This thread is evidence of such questioning.

[Marotta]

Heh heh.

I drink raw milk, personally. Although, you're right it's friggin expensive (~$17/gallon) so I supplement it with some non-raw milk.

And no, I don't think any normal person wondered what kind of milk he means when he says, "Drink a gallon of whole milk a day," and, "The less we've fucked with it the better..." (Paraphrasing, but I've read it more than a few times in things he's written about it.)

$17/Gallon?? WTF?

[Eric K]

Yeah. It comes in half gallon jugs and each of those is $8.49.

Now that I'm 200# I don't drink a gallon/day anymore, so I can drink mostly raw (or is it RAW?) milk. But I still tried to drink as much of it as I could while I was doing GOMAD. I felt a lot better with raw milk than with homo-, pasteurized stuff.

[spiderman]

And no, I don't think any normal person wondered what kind of milk he means when he says, "Drink a gallon of whole milk a day,"

"whole milk" isn't a marketing term where I live and it certainly isn't in countries where the language is not English. I think it would be good if he mentioned the fat percentage to make it less ambiguous.


"The less we've fucked with it the better..."

If "whole milk" is 3.25% then it is not really whole milk and it has certainly meddled with by all the same processes as 1% milk, for example.

We used to have a Jersey cow and the whole milk that came out of that animal was about 33% fat.

[ColoWayno]

"whole milk" isn't a marketing term where I live and it certainly isn't in countries where the language is not English. I think it would be good if he mentioned the fat percentage to make it less ambiguous.



If "whole milk" is 3.25% then it is not really whole milk and it has certainly meddled with by all the same processes as 1% milk, for example.

We used to have a Jersey cow and the whole milk that came out of that animal was about 33% fat.

Interesting, are you sure that's not % of calories from fat? I bet it tasted amazing.

[NKT]

"whole milk" isn't a marketing term where I live and it certainly isn't in countries where the language is not English. I think it would be good if he mentioned the fat percentage to make it less ambiguous.



If "whole milk" is 3.25% then it is not really whole milk and it has certainly meddled with by all the same processes as 1% milk, for example.

We used to have a Jersey cow and the whole milk that came out of that animal was about 33% fat.

I think jersey cows average around 5% milkfat, where holsteins average around 3.5%. The volume of cream is much greater than the fat content of the milk. The stuff to use for GOMAD is as close to "straight-from-the-cow" as you can get.

Grass-fed non-homogenized jersey milk is awesome.

[rpbrown]

Grass-fed non-homogenized jersey milk is awesome.

That's how we roll in New Jersey. In case anyone was wondering.

[MazdaMatt]

I wish I could afford anything better than run-of-the-mill whole milk. Apparently Nigerian Dwarf Goats produce 12-14% milkfat. Must be delish.

[Ian Kovtunovich]

There's a nonprofit organization that provides cows to villages in Africa (Heifer International, I think). Maybe you could apply to them for your very own personal cow.

[ColoWayno]

I wish I could afford anything better than run-of-the-mill whole milk. Apparently Nigerian Dwarf Goats produce 12-14% milkfat. Must be delish.
Have you looked in to co-ops? Here, you basically lease a fraction of a cow (or something like that). Then you pay to have the milk produced and packaged and it's yours. It's still kind of expensive though.
I think that's how you have to get it here, the cow has to belong to you somehow.

[MazdaMatt]

Not sure if that is legal here. I could drop into the local organic farm and see if they know. Been meaning to grab a dozen eggs and their mother some time.

[ColoWayno]

Not sure if that is legal here. I could drop into the local organic farm and see if they know. Been meaning to grab a dozen eggs and their mother some time.

There are ways around most everything. I remember when the Cigar Afficianados (sp?) got a smoking exemption in New York city to hold their annual get together they were told they could only smoke after desert was served. So, they served that to you when you walked in the door.

[Eric K]

Actually, Matt, I read an article in the newspaper while I was up in Montreal. The RAW (I love capitalizing it in this context) milk issue is pretty "hot" right now in Canadia (as hot and violent as those Canooks get). And the ruling so far was, as Colo explained, that if you "own" the cow you have rights to the milk. However, RAW Milk is illegal to sell, transport and store in Canada.

[MazdaMatt]

Actually, Matt, I read an article in the newspaper while I was up in Montreal. The RAW (I love capitalizing it in this context) milk issue is pretty "hot" right now in Canadia (as hot and violent as those Canooks get). And the ruling so far was, as Colo explained, that if you "own" the cow you have rights to the milk. However, RAW Milk is illegal to sell, transport and store in Canada.

Are you sure that was not just en Quebec?

I looked into local laws and I'm not allowed to have any farm animals within city limits :-( I was pretty bummed as I was totally primed to buy a pair of goats and a bunch of chickens. Next house will be outside city limits.

[ColoWayno]

Are you sure that was not just en Quebec?

I looked into local laws and I'm not allowed to have any farm animals within city limits :-( I was pretty bummed as I was totally primed to buy a pair of goats and a bunch of chickens. Next house will be outside city limits.

You don't have to have the cows, you just have to own them in some way, I think. So you pay to own the cow, to board it, and for the production.

[MazdaMatt]

Sorry, I was making a separate point. Just saying I tried to solve my own problem the old fashioned way, but municipal law fucked me.

[Eric K]

The paper said throughout all of Canada. That's what the big issue was. There was a specific dairy farmer who was fighting it because he was fined for "selling and transporting raw milk." He won the case because he was in a co-op and the people he brought the milk to owned part of the cows. (And no, I'm not sure which part, but hopefully it included at least one of the udders or else I don't know where the milk was coming from...)

[spiderman]

I think jersey cows average around 5% milkfat, where holsteins average around 3.5%. The volume of cream is much greater than the fat content of the milk. The stuff to use for GOMAD is as close to "straight-from-the-cow" as you can get.

Ahh ok. That makes sense. What I meant by 33% was that about 1/3rd of each gallon was cream. I didn't know there was a distinction between cream and milk fat. I thought milk fat was just cream that didn't rise to the top.

My dad was about 45 years old at the time we had the cow. I've never known him to drink milk other than while we had that cow. He loved the taste of the milk and put on 10 pounds of fat quickly.

[EJLouis]

You don't have to have the cows, you just have to own them in some way, I think. So you pay to own the cow, to board it, and for the production.

The co-op owning of a cow loophole has been plugged in Ontario at least. In Ottawa, some of the farmer's market will have (illegal) RAW milk available for purchase.

[ColoWayno]

The co-op owning of a cow loophole has been plugged in Ontario at least. In Ottawa, some of the farmer's market will have (illegal) RAW milk available for purchase.

We must be devious.

[ColoWayno]

I've got it: we meet up at the border at a given time. Then we ransack the country and take over and make our own laws.

[Eric K]

The idea of making RAW milk illegal bothers me. A lot. This is expounded by the fact that several states in the U.S. have jumped on that band wagon.

[MazdaMatt]

It is the simple answer for a potentially dangerous problem. That is all.

[NKT]

Ahh ok. That makes sense. What I meant by 33% was that about 1/3rd of each gallon was cream. I didn't know there was a distinction between cream and milk fat. I thought milk fat was just cream that didn't rise to the top.

My dad was about 45 years old at the time we had the cow. I've never known him to drink milk other than while we had that cow. He loved the taste of the milk and put on 10 pounds of fat quickly.

Nearly all of the milk's fat is in the cream that rises to the top; it's just that not all of the cream is fat. Most of the milk in stores is homogenized; where all of the fat is mechanically broken down into tiny pieces, small enough to stay in suspension rather than rising to the top.

Bodyfat gain is mostly about excess calories; the idea that calories from fat are preferrentially stored as fat is erroneous.

[Eric K]

It is the simple answer for a potentially dangerous problem. That is all.

Meh. I still think people should have the freedom to choose that risk for themselves. It's not like I'm suggesting they legalize meth.

[Marotta]

The co-op owning of a cow loophole has been plugged in Ontario at least. In Ottawa, some of the farmer's market will have (illegal) RAW milk available for purchase.

Imagining buying Pints of milk like it's a coke deal.

Lol'ing

[MazdaMatt]

Meh. I still think people should have the freedom to choose that risk for themselves. It's not like I'm suggesting they legalize meth.

I generally agree... but the farms will all advertise as being safe and they'll have an organization that runs commercials with sunny farms and children playing with happy cows... but then somebody gets a brain disease... or a whole family does... or a restaraunt's entire clientel for a week does... it isn't quite the same as the risk of smoking.

I'm cool with the co-op concept because you'd have to be an idiot to buy in without actually going and seeing the facilities to be sure they are up to snuff.

[Eric K]

I guess I just see that as an individual responsibility thing. Plus, I think the risk for contaminated milk is far lower for grass-fed, pasture-raised animals than the current dairy factories, so I'm also not suggesting that they stop pastuerizing their crap.

[MazdaMatt]

I guess I just see that as an individual responsibility thing. Plus, I think the risk for contaminated milk is far lower for grass-fed, pasture-raised animals than the current dairy factories, so I'm also not suggesting that they stop pastuerizing their crap.

To me that's a bit like the "organic foods are fuller of nutrients" myth. You can make shitty organics, but the organic farms generally are run by more "conscious" farmers and charge a higher price, so they create higher quality stuff. RIGHT NOW the grass-fed pasture-raised animals are on similar farms... erliminate the need for pasteurizing and you'll just get giant factory farms run the same way but they'll save some money by skipping the expensive past. process.

[Eric K]

Well, I guess we just disagree on the nutrient superiority of raw, grass-fed milk. But on the other issue, I would say that you don't eliminate the "need" (or more likely the practice) of pastuerizing just by ensuring that people are free to buy raw milk if they choose. And raw, grass-fed milk is far less profitable because grass is more expensive and dairy cows don't produce as much milk with it.

[Thyge Riisgaard]

Define "is."

It's Danish for "ice cream."

[cyhulhupun]

$17/Gallon?? WTF?
That's nothing compared to the milk that barbhero recommended. Of course, Tuscan Milk is the highest rated milk on all of Amazon, so it must be the best in the world.

[Marotta]

That's nothing compared to the milk that barbhero recommended. Of course, Tuscan Milk is the highest rated milk on all of Amazon, so it must be the best in the world.

I thought $5/4L was shitty, damn.

[Cmanuel]

The idea of making RAW milk illegal bothers me. A lot. This is expounded by the fact that several states in the U.S. have jumped on that band wagon.

It has been a federal law for quite some time to sell unpasteurized milk across state lines. Laws will vary from state to state, including the Co-Op laws that some have mentioned here already.

To add some history to this, the reason the federal law was first implemented way back when was because milk consumption was attributed to the majority of the nation's Brucellosis and Tuberculosis cases. You can clearly see a decrease in incidence for both diseases back when the federal law was first implemented (and also many people will argue that life expectancy also increased at that time, though this is probably attributable to confounding factors)


The idea of making RAW milk illegal bothers me. A lot. This is expounded by the fact that several states in the U.S. have jumped on that band wagon.

I think people should be able to make a choice only if they have been properly educated. The problem is that the majority of people just arent educated enough to make a smart decision about this stuff.

Take the low-medium income working mother who I met at a national food safety conference last year. Her infant son had numerous health issues. Thanks to websites by Raw Milk advocates The Weston Price Foundation in addition to other media outlets, she thought Raw milk consumption for her infant son would cure all ailments. The poor kid got hit bad with an O157:H7 infection and nearly died.


I guess I just see that as an individual responsibility thing. Plus, I think the risk for contaminated milk is far lower for grass-fed, pasture-raised animals than the current dairy factories, so I'm also not suggesting that they stop pastuerizing their crap.

As a graduate student in Food Microbiology, I can assure you that this is not the general consensus among the peer reviewed literature.

[coldfire]

It is the simple answer for a potentially dangerous problem. That is all.

Same can be said about alcohol, guns, knives, gambling, junk food, salt, whatever. You get the point.

[Age_of_Aquarius]

"milk
n.
1. A whitish liquid containing proteins, fats, lactose, and various vitamins and minerals that is produced by the mammary glands of all mature female mammals after they have given birth and serves as nourishment for their young.
2. The milk of cows, goats, or other animals, used as food by humans."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/milk

[Age_of_Aquarius]

What's this raw milk craze all about anyway? The Pasteurization process won't make milk any less nutritious you dumb asses. Though it has saved thousands of live in the past. All the essential nutrients are still there even after heating.

On risk:benefit ratio, drinking raw milk is fucking stupid. And if all it took to convince you was a simple pseudo-scientific marketing ploy like this http://www.certifiedrawmilk.com/, then you must be mentally challenged.

"hmmm, how do I, as a local farmer give myself a competitive advantage in an industry worth billions?" Idiots.

[Eric K]

It has been a federal law for quite some time to sell unpasteurized milk across state lines. Laws will vary from state to state, including the Co-Op laws that some have mentioned here already.

To add some history to this, the reason the federal law was first implemented way back when was because milk consumption was attributed to the majority of the nation's Brucellosis and Tuberculosis cases. You can clearly see a decrease in incidence for both diseases back when the federal law was first implemented (and also many people will argue that life expectancy also increased at that time, though this is probably attributable to confounding factors)



I think people should be able to make a choice only if they have been properly educated. The problem is that the majority of people just arent educated enough to make a smart decision about this stuff.

Take the low-medium income working mother who I met at a national food safety conference last year. Her infant son had numerous health issues. Thanks to websites by Raw Milk advocates The Weston Price Foundation in addition to other media outlets, she thought Raw milk consumption for her infant son would cure all ailments. The poor kid got hit bad with an O157:H7 infection and nearly died.



As a graduate student in Food Microbiology, I can assure you that this is not the general consensus among the peer reviewed literature.

Respect. Do you have any links that I could read in reference to that? I'm interested.


What's this raw milk craze all about anyway? The Pasteurization process won't make milk any less nutritious you dumb asses. Though it has saved thousands of live in the past. All the essential nutrients are still there even after heating.

On risk:benefit ratio, drinking raw milk is fucking stupid. And if all it took to convince you was a simple pseudo-scientific marketing ploy like this http://www.certifiedrawmilk.com/, then you must be mentally challenged.

Haha, AOA called somebody else's ideas stupid. Haha

"hmmm, how do I, as a local farmer give myself a competitive advantage in an industry worth billions?" Idiots.

[Tom Campitelli]

Cmanuel is spot on here. Raw milk assumes that everything goes right between milking the cow through to its eventual human consumption. It assumes the cows are clean and healthy, that all of the milking equipment and personnel are properly cleaned, as are all of the vessels which the milk touches, and that proper refrigeration and handling are observed all the way home. When all this goes right, you get a tasty, unique glass of milk. When it doesn't people get sick. Sometimes seriously. While pasteurizing and homogenizing milk alters its taste and may subtly alter its nutrient profile, it does not turn the stuff into poison, as many suggest.

Personally, I'd like to see drugs decriminalized and raw milk available, but I understand why it is not. Given the set of choices and tradeoffs before us, pasteurized milk was a really good decision and it continues to be one. I am off to drink some non-organic, homogenized, pasteurized milk right now. Wish me luck.

[ColoWayno]

I can get non-homogenized milk from grass fed cows that is pasteurized as minimally as the law will allow. I believe it's safe and it tastes good (except when you get a bad batch). I don't see the need to risk drinking raw milk personally.

I'm going to have to give it another try because when it's good, it's really good.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Pastuerization is only really needed if you homogonize milk.

[Carlos Daniel]

Pastuerization is only really needed if you homogonize milk.

That's why we use to have tuberculosis on milk, because it was homogenized?

[tfarny]

Homogenization is for looks and consistency, it's designed to make it easier to sell a uniform product, not for your health or for taste. It bugs the hell out of me that I have to pay heaps extra for them NOT to process it, though.
Personally I don't mind drinking pasteurized milk, I do it all the time, but I avoid the ultra pasteurized stuff, even if its organic. It's a necessary evil if you are going to produce truckloads of cheap milk, that's for sure. But if you do know the farmer and trust them, the raw stuff has a lot going for it including having more nutrition.

[Eric K]

Cmanuel is spot on here. Raw milk assumes that everything goes right between milking the cow through to its eventual human consumption. It assumes the cows are clean and healthy, that all of the milking equipment and personnel are properly cleaned, as are all of the vessels which the milk touches, and that proper refrigeration and handling are observed all the way home. When all this goes right, you get a tasty, unique glass of milk. When it doesn't people get sick. Sometimes seriously. While pasteurizing and homogenizing milk alters its taste and may subtly alter its nutrient profile, it does not turn the stuff into poison, as many suggest.

Personally, I'd like to see drugs decriminalized and raw milk available, but I understand why it is not. Given the set of choices and tradeoffs before us, pasteurized milk was a really good decision and it continues to be one. I am off to drink some non-organic, homogenized, pasteurized milk right now. Wish me luck.

Well, my problem is still that I should have the freedom to buy it if I so choose. Example: in Maryland I know a dairy farmer. The farm is clean, the cows are healthy and the food is good. But they are NOT ALLOWED to sell me raw milk or dairy products, because it's illegal in Maryland. That is wrong, in my opinion.

[MazdaMatt]

Same can be said about alcohol, guns, knives, gambling, junk food, salt, whatever. You get the point.

All of the above are controlled by laws except junk food and salt, neither of which are touted as being ultra-healthy and neither of which can randomly land you with a horrible disease that leaves you dead or worse.

I was surprised, honestly, to see such a sober general concensus on this stuff here. Pasteur (was that his name?) saved millions of lives since his "invention".

[coldfire]

All of the above are controlled by laws except junk food and salt, neither of which are touted as being ultra-healthy and neither of which can randomly land you with a horrible disease that leaves you dead or worse.


Controlled by laws maybe (doesn't mean it should be so), but not illegal. According to the logic of your previous post all of these should be illegal.

[MazdaMatt]

no, by your all-or-nothing extension of my logic they should be illegal, but that's not what I said.

Sure, if every glass of raw milk were legally required to be tested for these random occurance of life-ruining or -ending diseases I'd be perfectly cool with the farmers advertising their nutritional superiority and selling all they can sell.

[coldfire]

no, by your all-or-nothing extension of my logic they should be illegal, but that's not what I said.

Sure, if every glass of raw milk were legally required to be tested for these random occurance of life-ruining or -ending diseases I'd be perfectly cool with the farmers advertising their nutritional superiority and selling all they can sell.

Of course this is the extension of your logic. You solve a potential problem by making it illegal instead of letting the individual be responsible for it. Why test only raw milk? How about testing water?

[MazdaMatt]

Of course this is the extension of your logic. You solve a potential problem by making it illegal instead of letting the individual be responsible for it. Why test only raw milk? How about testing water?

Brilliant fucking argument... water is tested you fool. All of it. Constantly. It is also treated with chlorine and UV.

[coldfire]

Brilliant fucking argument... water is tested you fool. All of it. Constantly. It is also treated with chlorine and UV.

All of it? Riiight. http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/

So selling non-tested water should be illegal, yes?

[MazdaMatt]

Nobody is distributing private well water. Just as it is not legal to distribute your own private cow's untreated milk but you may consume it yourself. Your cow, your right, your responsibility, your risk. Your well, your right, your responsibility, your risk.

[Eric K]

Still shouldn't be illegal for your neighbor to buy it from you.

[MazdaMatt]

Still shouldn't be illegal for your neighbor to buy it from you.

That's a bit different and I'm sure you can fly under the radar selling some milk to your neighbor... of course if you kill him with it you're surely and rightly fucked

[Tom Campitelli]

Well, my problem is still that I should have the freedom to buy it if I so choose. Example: in Maryland I know a dairy farmer. The farm is clean, the cows are healthy and the food is good. But they are NOT ALLOWED to sell me raw milk or dairy products, because it's illegal in Maryland. That is wrong, in my opinion.

I agree with you.

[Dragar]

As a side note to the raw issue, once you're talking the typical homogenised/pasteurised milk there is no difference in the handling between full cream and skim milks. At least in the dairy I worked in as a student, the cream is separated form all milk, then blended back to meet the sales specification for each different type.

So your full cream milk is actually skim milk with cream added back

I really don't understand the pro-raw milk lobby, the health risk is insanely higher for very little benefit. It would be remiss of a government not to regulate this - millions would be convinced my marketing to adopt a much greater health risk. Individual choice would result in a lot of sick people with a huge cost to the country, so I don't buy the 'it's my own decision' argument. Anything we ingest is regulated for safety, why should milk be an exception?

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"the health risk is insanely higher "

Is that so?

[MazdaMatt]

How many people die from un-spoiled milk now vs. before pasteurization. I'm pretty sure it is insanely higher.

Hell, if they had the same regulation as smokes then I'd be cool with it. That is to say that they can not say it is beneficial to your health and they must have warnings of death and disease on every package. Then the public is clearly educated and can decide to roll the dice if they want to.

[Eric K]

As a side note to the raw issue, once you're talking the typical homogenised/pasteurised milk there is no difference in the handling between full cream and skim milks. At least in the dairy I worked in as a student, the cream is separated form all milk, then blended back to meet the sales specification for each different type.

So your full cream milk is actually skim milk with cream added back

I really don't understand the pro-raw milk lobby, the health risk is insanely higher for very little benefit. It would be remiss of a government not to regulate this - millions would be convinced my marketing to adopt a much greater health risk. Individual choice would result in a lot of sick people with a huge cost to the country, so I don't buy the 'it's my own decision' argument. Anything we ingest is regulated for safety, why should milk be an exception?

I didn't denounce any kind of regulation. I even liked Matt's idea of testing it. But this widespread pandemic of apocolyptic proportions that you speak of is a little hard to swallow. In a free market lots of these things tend to work themselves out. People getting sick from drinking your milk is not a good way to sell more milk. Just because you should be held accountable IF it goes bad (so to speak) does not mean you shouldn't be allowed to sell it. Ref: my above example.

[Eric K]

How many people die from un-spoiled milk now vs. before pasteurization. I'm pretty sure it is insanely higher.

Hell, if they had the same regulation as smokes then I'd be cool with it. That is to say that they can not say it is beneficial to your health and they must have warnings of death and disease on every package. Then the public is clearly educated and can decide to roll the dice if they want to.

C'mon, Matt. People were drinking raw milk long before they were drinking it pasteurized. Show me somewhere that demonstrates these people were dying at an apocolyptic rate and I'll ease up. Sure, put a skull and cross bones on it. Put a label that says it'll cause infantile penis syndrome, whatever, as long as I can buy it when I want to. But I think it's a little bit arrogant when so many people think that everyone is so incompetent that they need to be coddled in every little endeavor.

[MazdaMatt]

Tell that to the procecuting lawyer when your farm is sued for the deaths or terminal diseases of a dozen people when a bad batch goes out. I'm sure he'll just drop the case because they should have known better.

I'm not going google for you the fact that many thousands of people died every year from tainted milk before pasteurization regulation cleared it up.

I'm not saying it is deathly poison, just that it is unsafe. Many poeple smoke until they are 95 and then die in a bus crash. Doesn't mean that smoking is safe and should not be controlled by law.

[Eric K]

Controlled and completely unauthorized are different things.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Mazda,

You are aware that those death were before the level of refridgiration we have now.

[MazdaMatt]

True and true. I conceded that regulated would be okay with me after first not considering it and I'm sure that the refridgeration helps, but if the cow's utter has infection then keeping it cold won't really help.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

And you do know there is regular testing, both for pastuerized and raw, of milk produced for bateria levels and other such things.

[Eric K]

True and true. I conceded that regulated would be okay with me after first not considering it and I'm sure that the refridgeration helps, but if the cow's utter has infection then keeping it cold won't really help.

Word. Now I wonder if we could figure out how to get raw milk to keep your from slipping on the bench? Haha, wrong thread. Good luck though, I don't have useful experience with slippery benches.

[MazdaMatt]

And you do know there is regular testing, both for pastuerized and raw, of milk produced for bateria levels and other such things.

True, but it is not 100% testing, which is something that I'd want in any raw milk I would buy... which I would actually try if it were tested and from a source that I knew would keep refridgerated properly... ie, not my local convenience store that semi-regularly sells me lumpy sour milk.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Fair enough.

[ColoWayno]

bus crash

There should be a law against these.

[Cmanuel]

And you do know there is regular testing, both for pastuerized and raw, of milk produced for bateria levels and other such things.
really? Is this why in the first half of 2010 we had over 10 illness outbreaks related to raw milk?
http://www.ecoliblog.com/e-coli-watch/ten-raw-milk-product-outbreaks-in-six-months-where-is-the-outrage-from-the-raw-milk-industry/

[Vamshi]

Milk is magic srs.

My facial hair seems to grow the fastest when im drinking 1/2 to 1 gallon of whole milk a day.

[Marotta]

For anyone who doesn't know, Fuckhead here ^^ was in the 70'sbig chatroom talking about wanting to kill a girl. Just thought I'd get that info out there.

[Carlos Daniel]

For anyone who doesn't know, Fuckhead here ^^ was in the 70'sbig chatroom talking about wanting to kill a girl. Just thought I'd get that info out there.
Isn't that great.

[Caje]

Heh heh.

I drink raw milk, personally. Although, you're right it's friggin expensive (~$17/gallon) so I supplement it with some non-raw milk.

And no, I don't think any normal person wondered what kind of milk he means when he says, "Drink a gallon of whole milk a day," and, "The less we've fucked with it the better..." (Paraphrasing, but I've read it more than a few times in things he's written about it.)

Holy crap, I get grass-fed raw milk for $10/gal and thought that was bad.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

which fuck head

[Age_of_Aquarius]

For anyone who doesn't know, Fuckhead here ^^ was in the 70'sbig chatroom talking about wanting to kill a girl. Just thought I'd get that info out there.

"Vamshi" is that same scumbag who was on here about a month ago, threatening to commit suicide unless I delete those screens. Remember, the pics that were posted of the girl he was stalking / sexually objectifying on E&P?

I hope he wasn't talking about killing that same girl
Poor lass, what did she do wrong to deserve being stalked by such a creep :-(

[Oran]

I'm part of a co-op and drink only raw milk. I periodically visit the farm and have gotten tours of their systems and everything is spotless and incredibly clean. There is a ton of testing done. I feel 100% confident drinking it.

I'm sure not every farm supporting a similar co-op has the same standards and could lead to illness outbreaks. I'm okay with the law as is. You have to be pretty friggin' serious about it to get it and it's up to you to determine the cleanliness of your farm. I also get all of my beef, pork, lamb, chicken, and eggs from the same farm.

[Cmanuel]

For anyone that cares, there's actually a new wave of farms that are utilizing novel processing techniques to get rid of pathogens in the raw milk while still maintaining its "raw characteristics" (enzymes, nutrients, etc). Look up high pressure processing, membrane filtration, etc.