Is It Training or Exercise?

[stef]

There seems to be more interest these days in actually rethinking the military’s PT paradigm. Here’s an article for those of you specifically interested in this topic by our buddy Maj. Ryan Whittemore.


At present, passing the APFT and meeting body composition standards is either left up to the individual Soldier to do in any way the Soldier wants to do it, or the Soldier is forced to conduct a PT program designed by his immediate supervisors. In either case, the wrong people are doing the program design. This is where the Army shortchanges PT, and for some reason does not treat it in the same way as other combat-essential tasks.

Article (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/is_it_training_or_exercise)

Resources Page (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources)

[damonwells]

Well done! We'll get this thing right eventually...

[Ryan Long]

Great article Ryan, I look forward to the sequel.

[Aaron Love]

100%, no doubt about it spot on.

I find myself in a different focus group- specops for the AF- but the exact same problem abounds. Even in the career field (mos) that is hands down the fittest in my respective service, I see the exact problems listed here. While we are given infinitely more time/control over our specific workouts with very little input from "higher", the same thing happens time and time again. 150lb operator guy talks crap to the 210lb operator guy cause 150lb guy smokes the PT test with a perfect score. 210lb operator guy then proceeds to smoke the living crap out of 150lb guy in the "real world" because he has a focused approach to fitness and trains more than pushups, pullups, situps, a run, and a swim. 150lb guy is confused as to why this happens.

You would think that, among people that pride themselves on being the strongest, that there would be some sort of periodized, logical progression to overall strength and conditioning, executed in a manner that promotes actual growth as opposed to a false sense of security. Not the case.

Well done Sir. Looking forward to reading more.

[Ryan Dell Whitley]

I think most of us can agree that the Army's PT program is broken...but I guess my question is how do we fix it? I know how I've been approaching this but would love to hear someone else's plan.

[Rob S]

I work as an exercise physiologist/CSCS for the Army (GS), and I'm also National Guard (Infantry)- I was active duty in the mid 90's when the old FM 21.20 was the reason behind much of the way it shaped the "training" and PT.

Funny thing, PT in the Army was probably one of the biggest shapers of my future career, and since then (a couple degree's later, a whole lot of cert's, and a few jobs here and there), I've learned 2 things.

1) I don't know crap
2) See #1

So I had to laugh when I saw the reference to leadership needing to realize that they should transfer the "training" aspect more to the SME's. I couldn't agree more. Hopefully by the time the Big Army warms up to the idea for a full implementation, people aren't going cyclic in practical application back to the late 90's/early 00's when everyone was put on selectorized machines and told not to squat, dead, and clean b/c they're too complex or dangerous.

Maybe an answer is to have a career field for enlisted and officer? I don't think it's enough to designate someone, which is destined for the Master Fitness Trainer from years ago. The role would be very similar to an NBC NCO, and their training and role would be similiar.

Great article though- I enjoyed it.

[ZachN]

Rob S, could you expand on what it is you do related to strength training and the Army? I am very interested in trying to find some way to have a career related to both strength coaching (or something related) and the military and would appreciate any information you may have. A career field would be awesome, but as you pointed out, doesn't exist at this time.

[RyanWhittemore]

Thanks for the comments and certainly a big thanks to Rip for getting this out there. It's nice to know that some people will read this instead of me having to explain my "crazy" ideas to anyone who will listen. We are working hard on our program here in 10th SFG(A) with 2 new contract strength coaches. I help out when and where I can. I am planning to write another article soon which will be more "strength-focused" as is the norm on this site.

[Will Morris]

ZachN - True a "career-field" doesn't exist as of yet in the military with a sole purpose of strength and conditioning, however, the trend right now is Army Physical Therapists will begin filling this role, in addition to therapy. The title is Human Performance Optimization Officer, and Brigade Combat Team Physical Therapists are slated to begin taking on this role on or about 2013 (I believe). Not that it really means much to those of us around this board, but the SOP will be that all PTs will have to earn and stay current with a CSCS. This additional duty, so to speak, was first implemented at the 75th Ranger Regiment, and over there, the PTs and OTs have a direct hand in the planning of the physical fitness of their respective elements.

[RyanWhittemore]

Although in some units the resources are now available, until participation is mandatory, it won't really work. There are plenty of guys here who seek out the strength coaches and get on a great program. Others choose to avoid it. I was in the Ranger Regiment when they first had a strength coach, I thought I knew what I was doing so I never met the guy. It was my loss, and because no one directed me to get on a program I did the usual push-ups, sit-ups, and run everyday. As a commander, I did my LTs a great disservice by subjecting them to the same B.S. program. Just having the resources is only the first step, leaders have to back them up much like a head football coach has to back up his strength staff. If a kid doesn't put out in the weight room, he should hear about it from the head coach, ideally it would be the same in the military. I think the good news is that we are starting to get it right in the SOF community. Typically, as goes SOF, so goes the Army (eventually.) We are talking about a huge paradigm shift, it won't happen before I retire.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

We are talking about a huge paradigm shift, it won't happen before I retire.

Do you think that this paradigm shift--if it comes to pass--will eventually be accompanied by a change in what is tested on the APFT itself? If the Army starts to acknowledge the importance of strength, ruggedness, etc., won't the Army's ideas also have to change regarding what's important to test? I know my branch, the Marines, have taken a baby-step in this direction with the addition of the CFT; however, my feeling is that it'll be a cold day in hell when they let that 3-mile run go.

If yes, what would you like to see the APFT look like 20 years from now? Something like the Crossfit total and a running component limited to a mile, or 800m? Drastically different weight standards? This article focuses on the day-to-day PT; I am curious to hear your vision for the test itself.

[Misfitcj]

Great article. I can agree on multiple levels. I have been in that position, and luckily got some help from local gym owner(an rip disciple). I was tasked with creating an implementing a PT program for approx 500 Navy personnel, all of which being in a range of fitness levels and job types. Tasks were broken down to job type and position. We created an introduction to basic movements. An were quickly labeled as forum Nazi's. With much trial an error (surprisingly little injury) We were able to improve the standard of fitness at the command. Being extremely proud of our project/experiment we show cased our product to higher authority. Which promptly informed us we were wasting an hour a day to fitness, an sucking up 5 senior positions with full time coach's. We should have stuck to what was provided by instruction. 3 days a week with 1 hour if possible during working hours supervised by someone with zero training.


ltr Pat

[Ryan Long]

Do you think that this paradigm shift--if it comes to pass--will eventually be accompanied by a change in what is tested on the APFT itself?

According to a friend who works closely with the people at the Army Physical Fitness School we can expect to see a new APFT in 12-18 months. Just today he told me that the events will be a 100 meter shuttle run, 1 minute of push ups, 1 minute of the rower (the sit up like exercise from the active warm up), a standing long jump, and a 1.5 mile run. He doesn't know the order or performance standards, but this is somewhat better than what we have now.

[RyanWhittemore]

I've wrestled with the "what should the APFT be?" question for a long time now. It's such a complex problem. Say we adopted your CFT with 800m run idea (which I like). What percentage of the Army (or Marine Corps) could post a respectable score right now? I guess I'd like to see the training start, and down the road we will figure out an appropriate test.

Again I'll reference college football. 40 years ago, most players didn't even lift weights, they didn't believe in it. Now that strength coaches are a proven and respected part of any major college program, the players really have no choice. That's what I would love to see in the military. However, my friends who are college strength coaches still complain that they have a huge problem with kids who just want to train for the NFL Combine, instead of train to be better players. This is the same as training for the APFT in my mind. Does that make sense? Training for a test will always occur.

It's unfortunate that after almost 10 years of combat experience, most commanders still value an APFT score more than they value the actual combat performance. It's easier to quantify I suppose.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

However, my friends who are college strength coaches still complain that they have a huge problem with kids who just want to train for the NFL Combine, instead of train to be better players. This is the same as training for the APFT in my mind. Does that make sense? Training for a test will always occur.


No doubt training for the test will always occur. Accepting this as inevitable, how about structuring the test in such a way that this is a good thing, not a bad thing? In other words, how about structuring the test so that "preparing for the test" and "preparing for combat effectiveness" look about the same (ignoring for a moment the fact that "effectiveness" looks different for different MOSs). Training for the test is only bad when the test sucks. For example, take one element of the NFL combine, the 225 pound bench for reps: To train for this test, you have no choice but to lift heavy (or be a genetic one-percenter, but this doesn't apply to the military like it does to NFL combine participants). So even if you're training for the test, you're getting some damn useful training in.

Applying this to the military, let me pull some events out of my ass: 800m run, 200m run, max overhead press or max reps at .5 bodyweight, max pullups, 3rm deadlift, etc. If the test consisted of stuff like this, then would you have a problem with Soldiers training for the test?

By the way, good article and good discussion.


According to a friend who works closely with the people at the Army Physical Fitness School we can expect to see a new APFT in 12-18 months. Just today he told me that the events will be a 100 meter shuttle run, 1 minute of push ups, 1 minute of the rower (the sit up like exercise from the active warm up), a standing long jump, and a 1.5 mile run. He doesn't know the order or performance standards, but this is somewhat better than what we have now.

Sounds like a step in the right direction. Am I correct in detecting a desire to avoid implements, e.g. barbells?


I've wrestled with the "what should the APFT be?" question for a long time now. It's such a complex problem. Say we adopted your CFT with 800m run idea (which I like). What percentage of the Army (or Marine Corps) could post a respectable score right now? I guess I'd like to see the training start, and down the road we will figure out an appropriate test.

As a preliminary point, I'll note that if we disagree on whether the new training or a new test should be implemented first, we are disagreeing about a minor point. The major point is of course that both new training and a new test are needed. I don't have a strong opinion on what should come first, but I will say that people respond to incentives. If word of the new test came down, with say a year or two of notice, and this word were accompanied by recommendations on how to put yourself in a position to crush the new test, I think Soldiers would figure it out. If the CFT hasn't caused a sea change in the Marine Corps training, it's probably because it exists alongside the PFT. The PFT is still viewed as the gold standard; I don't think many Marines even know their last CFT score. You can view this as a gradual phase-in, or as a half-hearted gesture that won't have much effect other than to reveal that, hey, that big Marine actually isn't a fat piece of shit.

[Eric K]

No doubt training for the test will always occur. Accepting this as inevitable, how about structuring the test in such a way that this is a good thing, not a bad thing? In other words, how about structuring the test so that "preparing for the test" and "preparing for combat effectiveness" look about the same (ignoring for a moment the fact that "effectiveness" looks different for different MOSs). Training for the test is only bad when the test sucks. For example, take one element of the NFL combine, the 225 pound bench for reps: To train for this test, you have no choice but to lift heavy (or be a genetic one-percenter, but this doesn't apply to the military like it does to NFL combine participants). So even if you're training for the test, you're getting some damn useful training in.

Applying this to the military, let me pull some events out of my ass: 800m run, 200m run, max overhead press or max reps at .5 bodyweight, max pullups, 3rm deadlift, etc. If the test consisted of stuff like this, then would you have a problem with Soldiers training for the test?



I agree the CFT is a half-hearted step in the right direction. To your suggested test, I would suggest throwing in a long (~5 mi) ruck with a 45-60 lbs load for time. Other than that, the rep-strength/limit-strength, along with some short duration, high-intesity efforts model that you recommend would definitely be good. I also think the CFT should switch from a buddy of about the same weight to a 200 lbs dummy. I don't know many Marines that weight under 200 lbs with all of their gear on (in fact 200 is probably light). My 2 cents...

[RyanWhittemore]

.

Applying this to the military, let me pull some events out of my ass: 800m run, 200m run, max overhead press or max reps at .5 bodyweight, max pullups, 3rm deadlift, etc. If the test consisted of stuff like this, then would you have a problem with Soldiers training for the test?


I have no problem with soldiers training for that test. I think we agree it will always occur. I was really just trying to point out that college football strength and conditioning programs have come a million miles since the early days of introducing football players to weight training and it's still not perfect. I would be thrilled with just a little bit of the same type of progress in the military.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

I have no problem with soldiers training for that test. I think we agree it will always occur. I was really just trying to point out that college football strength and conditioning programs have come a million miles since the early days of introducing football players to weight training and it's still not perfect. I would be thrilled with just a little bit of the same type of progress in the military.

Gotcha. Guess I missed the point there somewhat.

[Misfitcj]

As I understand the issue with the implementation of the CFT is the training of Marines. Half the year they train for PFT an the other half CFT. Never really cementing the benefits of the CFT into training.

I concur completely agree with Mr.Whittemore statement not going to before I retire statement. Continue in the right direction with people like Mr. Whittemore, leading the charge yes.

ltr Pat

[Sticks]

As I understand the issue with the implementation of the CFT is the training of Marines. Half the year they train for PFT an the other half CFT. Never really cementing the benefits of the CFT into training.ltr Pat

In my squadron, we train year round for the PFT and just fucking wing it on the CFT. I get a ration of crap from my XO for lifting weights and being close to my weight limit. I'm 5'6" and weigh 168lbs.

[John Galt]

How about a four part APFT consisting of pullups, overhead press with 95 pounds, 3 mile run, and 400 meter run. No time limit on pullups and overhead press, but no more than 5 seconds at the bottom of each repetition.

Pullups are probably the best measure of strength:bodyweight ratio. The only downside with using pullups is that you can cheat a little bit, but not nearly as much as you can with pushups and situps.

Instead of using a percentage of a person's bodyweight for overhead press, just use 95 pounds so it's easier to set up and you don't need to weigh anyone, plus every male should be able to overhead press 95 for at least a couple reps, but it's not too light of a weight that you'd be doing it forever. At first glance, this seems like it might be hard to execute but i really don't think it would be. all you'd need is a couple of bars, twice as many 25 pound plates as you have bars, and then just have the soldier clean the bar to the starting position before the timer starts.

And the test includes both long distance cardio and short distance cardio, which are key.


The current APFT is pretty crappy in my opinion for a couple of reasons:

1. It doesn't involved any pulling motions, which are more functional than pushing motions
2. It's too easy to cheat on pushups and situps. I've seen many cadets at West Point (especially girls) pass the pushups portion of the APFT when they probably could not perform 5 real repititions with good form.
3. It doesn't involve any short distance cardio.


As a commander, I wouldn't mind my soldiers training specifically for this test, because a soldier that could do well in all of these events would be fit for combat anyways.

[Bronan the Barbarian]

How about a four part APFT consisting of pullups, overhead press with 95 pounds, 3 mile run, and 400 meter run. No time limit on pullups and overhead press, but no more than 5 seconds at the bottom of each repetition.

Pullups are probably the best measure of strength:bodyweight ratio. The only downside with using pullups is that you can cheat a little bit, but not nearly as much as you can with pushups and situps.

Instead of using a percentage of a person's bodyweight for overhead press, just use 95 pounds so it's easier to set up and you don't need to weigh anyone, plus every male should be able to overhead press 95 for at least a couple reps, but it's not too light of a weight that you'd be doing it forever. At first glance, this seems like it might be hard to execute but i really don't think it would be. all you'd need is a couple of bars, twice as many 25 pound plates as you have bars, and then just have the soldier clean the bar to the starting position before the timer starts.

And the test includes both long distance cardio and short distance cardio, which are key.


The current APFT is pretty crappy in my opinion for a couple of reasons:

1. It doesn't involved any pulling motions, which are more functional than pushing motions
2. It's too easy to cheat on pushups and situps. I've seen many cadets at West Point (especially girls) pass the pushups portion of the APFT when they probably could not perform 5 real repititions with good form.
3. It doesn't involve any short distance cardio.


As a commander, I wouldn't mind my soldiers training specifically for this test, because a soldier that could do well in all of these events would be fit for combat anyways.

Overall this sounds awesome. Not sure about the three-mile run though. Maybe I've just been drinking to much of the strength training kool-aid, but why is it needed?

[benjock]

Wouldn't a test based on several events chosen at random help to prevent "training for the test"? In other words, have a number of events in several athletic categories that are chosen at random for any one PT test. For example: categories would be overall strength, overall endurance and overall tactical fitness (just pulling things out of my arse here). Under each category there would be upwards of 20 events per. So on any given test day, the master trainers designated to administer the test would choose, via random selection, one event from each category. Again, this is simply a concept to contemplate. This concept would prevent "training to the test" because no one would know what events they may be tested on. There are several challenges with this I am sure, but sounds good in theory. Or, the Army could do away with testing all together and simply chapter Soldiers who don't cut the mustard in the field, wouldn't that be crazy too?

[BikeJAG]

I'm now an AF civilian employee and the AF has revamped their fitness program tremendously. While Soldiers are out at 0600 doing PT, the AF trains at 1500 (3pm) and do a lot of the same useless circuit drills the Army has used for years. Maybe they are focusing on "core" fitness since there is a lot of stretching and strengthening core work going on but I think they're going to run into the same problem the Army has had. The AF does appear to have a strict waist limit to be considered "fit" at 36 inches. Hee hee! Little dudes with no strength will succeed, the big strong guys will find other work.

Bill

[REvans]

Listened to an online broadcast this morning describing the new Army Physical Readiness Test and also the Army Combat Readiness Test
Is what MAJ Ryan Long posted earlier in this thread, except it is a 60 yard progressive shuttle run. 5 yards out and back, 10 yards, then 15.
It sounded like the order of events are: 60 yard shuttle run, 1 minute rower, standing long jump (3 attempts), 1 minute pushups, and 1.5 mile run. No rest is allowed on rower or pushups.

The ACRT sounds like a good start. 400 M run with weapon, IMT, ammo can sprints and shuttle, agility run, and casualty drag.

Testing and scoring standards to be developed this summer from 8-9 posts conducting the APRT, and then General Hertling made it sound as if implementation army wide will be somethis this fall.

[Elgar]

How about a four part APFT consisting of pullups, overhead press with 95 pounds, 3 mile run, and 400 meter run. No time limit on pullups and overhead press, but no more than 5 seconds at the bottom of each repetition.


So females are supposed to press their own body weight? Remember that body weight lends a large advantage to males for that.

Though I do agree with the sentiment. I'm pretty tired of seeing people in the Army (This is in the Canadian Forces) do group runs. While it's improving with more emphasis on crossfit, it's mostly just body weight and little is done in the way of weight lifting. I can think of many avenues that this helps, rucking, casualty carry, lifting ammo cans, scrambling onto buildings, boosting up a fire team partner. It's why I try and implement weight lifting technique where I can.

Though I know where the Maj gets the resistance, I too had it from my subordinates when I taught technique and they said "Yeah see I need more weight to do it properly" I then just asked them how much they squatted and I could do more then them. It sounds dickish but sometimes squashing their wrong opinions with your own example can do a lot of good. Now that`s not to say all NCM`s don`t know what is going on with weight lifting. Quite the contrary I`ve met more than a few Cpls and Pvts who are doing similar programs if not the SS program and I was able to gain valuable insight from them, not only on a training perspective but improving myself.

It`s unfortunate I never had any of them in my platoon to use as examples. The lack of facilities is a constant frustration. As only having 2 power racks, but 6 bench stations (2 decline, 3 flat and 1 incline) when 2 adjustable bench areas would have been sufficient, or they could have just been used in a rack.

It is agreed though that an army needs someone specific for this. In Canada we have PSP, unfortunately there is no consensus among them on how to weight lift properly and the ones that do know what they are talking about are few and far between. I had asked for advice one time on the squat so as to check my form. I was told I shouldn`t go below parallel I needed the bar on my traps and I had to look up. I then promptly told him to leave me alone. Compared to another PSP staff in a different base who used to be an Olympic lifter and coach and knew of both the high bar and low bar and how to coach both.

The real key is find the proper instructors and then maintaining that oversight in proper instruction.