Is becoming fat a necassary part of becoming strong?

[Aum Shinrikyo]

Reading around, I know some of you guys like to eat, and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more. But I'm only serious about training and not so much about the eating part, since gluttony isn't quite my cup of tea, also there's nothing impressive about being Uber strong when you're a fat sack of crap.

Eg:

This:

http://zacheven-esh.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/o-lifter.jpg


Not this:

http://picturrs.com/files/glamgalz/imgs/olympics/scariest_women_olympics_06.jpg


This:
http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/thumbnailfull/liao-hui-2009-11-22-7-11-5.jpg

Not this:

http://crossfitoneworld.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bf90553ef0120a9381696970b-800wi

I know some of you don't mind being overweight, but I want to stay ripped, it's just personal preference really (if not for anything else, then for the sake of my long term heart health)

Thanks.

[Carlos Daniel]

There is a big difference between ripped and not fat, and for you it will be the difference between being skinny and actually looking like you lift.

[JC]

Sliding scale:

Staying lean & getting strong------------------------------------------------------------------Getting bigger & getting stronger

training & diet adjust the slider. Also weight category lifters cut to make weight, id assume they're both stronger & bigger between contests.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"I know some of you don't mind being overweight, but I want to stay ripped, it's just personal preference really (if not for anything else, then for the sake of my long term heart health) "

How is putting on enough fat to long be ripped bad for your heart. ANd yes, some fat gain is necessary for strength gain. THe first weightlifter you linked to is on a fairly large amount of PED's, the second is a chick and the bottom guy is the strongest of them all.

If you are saying you don't want to be a SHW, no one will fault you for this. If you are using this as a reason to not give up your six pack, fuck off.

[MikeC1]

Reading around, I know some of you guys like to eat, and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more. But I'm only serious about training and not so much about the eating part, since gluttony isn't quite my cup of tea, also there's nothing impressive about being Uber strong when you're a fat sack of crap...
I know some of you don't mind being overweight, but I want to stay ripped, it's just personal preference really (if not for anything else, then for the sake of my long term heart health)

Thanks.

How old are you? Do you have any actual training history? You seem to have some reading comprehension and critical thinking issues. Listen to your doctor, do not lift heavy weights, and stay away from processed sugars and saturated fats. We don't want you to lose your abs.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"Reading around, I know some of you guys like to eat, and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more."

I re read this. You got this as wrong as well. I eat the way I do becuase of the way I train, not the otherway around. The eating is one of the harder parts of my training.

[hamburgerfan]

Perhaps you should take up jogging, as a means to burn off all of those dreadful calories.

[Carlos Daniel]

and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more.

Oh, I hadn't read this part.

Go fuck yourself with a spiked bat. I don't like eating so damn much more than next skinny bastard.

[LudwigVan]

How old are you? Do you have any actual training history? You seem to have some reading comprehension and critical thinking issues. Listen to your doctor, do not lift heavy weights, and stay away from processed sugars and saturated fats. We don't want you to lose your abs.

Rip?

[Caje]

1. and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more.
2. But I'm only serious about training and not so much about the eating part
3. I know some of you don't mind being overweight, but I want to stay ripped, it's just personal preference really (if not for anything else, then for the sake of my long term heart health)
Thanks.
1. You're a douche
2. Then you aren't serious about training
3. Because there is no middle ground between ripped and overweight? Once you lose your "situation" like abs you are instantly overweight? Also being ripped isn't particularly good for your health.

[Wannabeatank]

Are you a wannabe bodybuilder? If so, have fun performing intercourse with other men's anal holes AND being in a thong on a stage WHILE gay men pleasure themselves thinking about you AND being weak as hell.

That is all.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Most high level body builders has a fairly good amount of strength. Wannabes are weak as fuck though

[thefinalsql]

You seem to be assuming all the "not this" people were ripped with 6 packs before they undertook weight lifting and got fat in the process.

Bad assumption.

[Wannabeatank]

Natty bodybuilding is weak, IFBB not so much, for their weight classes they are weak though.

[John Bono]

Reading around, I know some of you guys like to eat, and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more. But I'm only serious about training and not so much about the eating part, since gluttony isn't quite my cup of tea, also there's nothing impressive about being Uber strong when you're a fat sack of crap.

Thanks.

Really? The audience I had of teenagers at the globo-gym were pretty damn impressed when this middle aged fat sack o' crap did a 3 plate squat.

Oh, and in case your interested, this middle aged fat sack o' crap's also done 5 centuries on a bike. And I've never had a six pack that didn't come from Milwaukee. I must be doing something wrong.

[FKYT]

Just a few things:

1. It depends on what you mean by "fat". On my quest for strength, I've found it necessary to lose the six-pack, but I don't have a huge gut & double chin or anything.
2. Even without the six-pack, I get more compliments on my looks now than ever before, since a guy who puts on bodyweight will fill out clothes better.
3. I'm not naturally a glutton, and I find it difficult to eat the required amount of calories and protein each day. But one does what one must.

[JStrong]

Obvious Troll is obvious.

[Justinnnnnn]

Wow, typical hostile response from all the Rippetoe sycophants. If you didn't notice, the OP didn't accuse everyone on this board of being fat, but it does seem that a significant portion of posters here don't care about being overfat and raw strength is the one and only goal in life.

I'm not, and he's not saying that theres anything wrong with that - but to many people personal appearance is always a factor. I'm not talking about making the cover of Men's Health or getting on a bodybuilding stage, just like the OP said, not looking fat.

Why is it so bad that someones goal is not 100% strength at the cost of everything else, rather maybe 50% strength and 50% appearance, or anywhere in between?

[Justinnnnnn]

And this:


Really? The audience I had of teenagers at the globo-gym were pretty damn impressed when this middle aged fat sack o' crap did a 3 plate squat.

Not everyone's main goal in life is to impress male teenagers, I think maybe you're on the wrong forum if thats what you're looking to brag about

[Carlos Daniel]

Wow, typical hostile response from all the Rippetoe sycophants. If you didn't notice, the OP didn't accuse everyone on this board of being fat, but it does seem that a significant portion of posters here don't care about being overfat and raw strength is the one and only goal in life.

I'm not, and he's not saying that theres anything wrong with that - but to many people personal appearance is always a factor. I'm not talking about making the cover of Men's Health or getting on a bodybuilding stage, just like the OP said, not looking fat.

Why is it so bad that someones goal is not 100% strength at the cost of everything else, rather maybe 50% strength and 50% appearance, or anywhere in between?

Did you actually read the OP's post?


but I want to stay ripped

He didn't say he didn't want to get fat. No one does. He says he wants to stay ripped, as in around or less than 10% bf.

[Regin Smidur]

trolololo

[tertius]

Wow, typical hostile response from all the Rippetoe sycophants. If you didn't notice, the OP didn't accuse everyone on this board of being fat, but it does seem that a significant portion of posters here don't care about being overfat and raw strength is the one and only goal in life.

I'm not, and he's not saying that theres anything wrong with that - but to many people personal appearance is always a factor. I'm not talking about making the cover of Men's Health or getting on a bodybuilding stage, just like the OP said, not looking fat.

Why is it so bad that someones goal is not 100% strength at the cost of everything else, rather maybe 50% strength and 50% appearance, or anywhere in between?

The correct term is 'Rippetoe nutswingers', actually.

[Justinnnnnn]

He didn't say he didn't want to get fat. No one does. He says he wants to stay ripped, as in around or less than 10% bf.

And this attitude is evil and must be exterminated why? We live in a material world, people care about looks. It sucks, but it's true

[Starofflorida]

And this attitude is evil and must be exterminated why? We live in a material world, people care about looks. It sucks, but it's true

It is true - for better or worse - but he wouldn't go to the knitting forum and ask about concreting his driveway... or would he?

He'll find much (boy)love on other forums where hawt abz are appreciated above a four plate squat.

[Mike C]

personally i think everyone overreacted here. Just my opinion.

[Stagger Lee]

OP oughtta go get 'mired in the mire of bb.com. (do you, in fact, see what i have done? he he he!!)

[Mike C]

who's the dude in the first pic, btw?

[Carlos Daniel]

And this attitude is evil and must be exterminated why? We live in a material world, people care about looks. It sucks, but it's true

What really sucks is that if he insists on being 10% bf, he will look like crap for as long as he insists on being at 10% bf which by the look of it, will be forever.

[dsp]

It's just easier to progress and gain muscular weight if you overshoot a little. Unless you want to don reading glasses and sit up all night with your calculator and all the formulas to guess your maintenance calories (which aren't accurate).

Wanting to stay lean and get strong isn't gay (the stronger you are at a lesser bodyweight the more impressive), but bringing skinless chicken breast in zip loc containers everywhere kinda is.

[Stagger Lee]

who's the dude in the first pic, btw?

speaking of the first dude, it occurs to me that despite his magnificent physique he likely consumes triple the calories (or more) than most of the nerds with the OP's particular misapprehension. the moral? it's work load--or, more specifically, lack of it--that creates fatties, not food itself.

[John Bono]

Not everyone's main goal in life is to impress male teenagers, I think maybe you're on the wrong forum if thats what you're looking to brag about

Er, read the OP's quote:


Reading around, I know some of you guys like to eat, and this kind of training principle gives you a good excuse to eat more. But I'm only serious about training and not so much about the eating part, since gluttony isn't quite my cup of tea, also there's nothing impressive about being Uber strong when you're a fat sack of crap.



And yet this "fat sack of crap", old fart schooled a bunch of kiddies(18-25) with a fairly routine(in these parts) lift.

They hunted da gunz and da situashunz, yet were awed by a man twice their age who's been lifting a grand total of four months.

I think that demonstration proves how valuable having "abz" is to athletic performance.

[Mike C]

speaking of the first dude, it occurs to me that despite his magnificent physique he likely consumes triple the calories (or more) than most of the nerds with the OP's particular misapprehension. the moral? it's work load--or, more specifically, lack of it--that creates fatties, not food itself.

All that and you didn't answer my question

[sergeant_81]

Hi, msingh.

[John Bono]

Hi, msingh.

Post of the month, LOL.

[Stagger Lee]

All that and you didn't answer my question

only because i don't know. sometimes clues can be gleaned by checking the URL of the pic linked and, if the filename doesn't reveal anything, navigating to the site one layer up. i can't check for you because i am posting from a phone!! no really, a cellular telephone!

[manisstrong]

No, becoming fat is not a necessary part of becoming strong. Gaining some muscular weight is.

[bob g]

Hi, msingh.
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

He's baaaack.

[Eric K]

My money's on AoA.

[MikeC1]

My money's on AoA.

Lol I can see that.

[Subsistence]

Depends what you count as strong I imagine. You won't set raw strength records when ripped, but you can see some people in lower weight classes, or body builders or the like, who put up some decent numbers.

[SMC]

Either a troll or a fan of releasing sarin gas on public trains

[shootwillus]

I've never had a good six pack even when I fought at 155lbs cutting from 180lbs+. I now weigh between 205-210. Why didn't I have a six pack?...genetics (and lack of steroids). I have a natural tendency towards thick skin and subcutaneous body fat. The only way I could be awesomely ripped is drugs and/or starvation. Fuck that, I'd rather be strong and happy.

[Aum Shinrikyo]

I've never had a good six pack even when I fought at 155lbs cutting from 180lbs+. I now weigh between 205-210. Why didn't I have a six pack?...genetics (and lack of steroids). I have a natural tendency towards thick skin and subcutaneous body fat. The only way I could be awesomely ripped is drugs and/or starvation. Fuck that, I'd rather be strong and happy.

It might very well have been poor nutrition which was the barrier between you and abs. Don't use genetics as an excuse for a lack of self-control.

[John Dickens]

It might very well have been poor nutrition which was the barrier between you and abs. Don't use genetics as an excuse for a lack of self-control.

After a 25 lb + cut? Troll.

Your first attempt wasn't bad. But you overstepped by a large margin this post.

[RobCor]

Well, if the OP isn't a troll, my answer is this:

No, it is not necessary. I don't think anybody around here wants to be fat, but they do want to be strong. This applies to me, and my logic is:

1) I want to get strong.
2) Getting strong requires calories.
3) I would rather make sure I eat enough food to make progress than skimp on food and not make progress.

So we may overshoot a bit and put on a little fat. No big deal, because we get strong enough to crush most people in our gyms.

Personally, I'll be starting a cut in a week and a half when I hit my last training goal (405 dead single).


Either a troll or a fan of releasing sarin gas on public trains

I knew it sounded familiar.

[Aum Shinrikyo]

After a 25 lb + cut? Troll.

Your first attempt wasn't bad. But you overstepped by a large margin this post.

No, you don't quite understand. People think as long as you're on a slight caloric deficit you will lose weight. That's true esp if you're very overweight, but as you beocme leaner losing body fat becomes harder. At which point it's very important where your calories are coming from. If you eat 'junk' fats and sugars your body isn't able to process them as efficiently as healthier sources (like using MCT or MUFAs instead of sat fats) and tend to hold on to these calories as fat (Whilst healthy fats have been shown to encourage adipose metabolism.

[Aum Shinrikyo]

Either a troll or a fan of releasing sarin gas on public trains

You don't have a clue what you're talking about man, but we're discussing strength and fat/how being overweight may be hindrance to health and athletic performance, not religion.

[TroglodyteInTraining]

Either a troll or a fan of releasing sarin gas on public trains

I was going to point out the blatant troll/nerve gas link, but you beat me to it.

Unlike the actual terror cult, it looks like this guy succeeded pretty well in his nefarious scheme. Well played, sir. </golf clap>

[The Emancipated Freak]

If you get really fat you can get stronger more easily, then you do tabata front squats to burn calories and look like one of your "this" guys. It's not rocket science. You can lose fat very easily. Maybe not even the front squats, maybe you would like to decrease the size of your testicle and look ripped by running all day. Or maybe you just want to pump the guns.

[stolpsTDI]

You don't have a clue what you're talking about man, but we're discussing strength and fat/how being overweight may be hindrance to health and athletic performance, not religion.

You're the one who picked that username.

How about we talk about how being a little overweight might help athletic performance?

Are you game AoA?

[shootwillus]

It might very well have been poor nutrition which was the barrier between you and abs. Don't use genetics as an excuse for a lack of self-control.

So, you believe that all men are created with the equal ability to have glorious abs and genetics is either not a factor or an insignificant one?

[sergeant_81]

Someday, SOMEDAY, the obsession with six pack abs and insanely low bodyfat percentage will give way in favor of people who can actually DO something.

It'll probably happen sometime around the Rapture. Thus, I'm not holding my breath.

[Eric K]

Haven't you been paying attention to the news? It is the rapture, from now until October 21st. God is pacing himself.

[MidwestJ]

It never stops surprising me that so many of you lash out on a person who wants to stay lean.

I guess we should all just stop caring about how fat we get in favor of getting strong.

Stop judging him. Not everyone wants to look like a fucking tree trunk for god's sake.

And people who were already chubby are the worst. They think they are all high and mightier than the rest of everyone because some where along the line they gave up on being lean, so now they can claim they don't care about their overhanging belly and be pompous fucking assholes about it.

Seriously people grow the fuck up.

If it makes you feel good to be strong and wear size 42 jeans good for you now shut the hell up about it.

[Caje]

No, you don't quite understand. People think as long as you're on a slight caloric deficit you will lose weight. That's true esp if you're very overweight, but as you beocme leaner losing body fat becomes harder. At which point it's very important where your calories are coming from. If you eat 'junk' fats and sugars your body isn't able to process them as efficiently as healthier sources (like using MCT or MUFAs instead of sat fats) and tend to hold on to these calories as fat (Whilst healthy fats have been shown to encourage adipose metabolism.

You don't understand he DID drop 25 pounds for his fighting weight and still didn't have abs.

Also Medium Chain Triglycerides ARE saturated fats. Also since when are MUFA's healthier then saturated fats?

[The Emancipated Freak]

So, you believe that all men are created with the equal ability to have glorious abs and genetics is either not a factor or an insignificant one?

This should be in the constitution.

[hbriem]

Msingh sure has a lot of sock puppets in this thread.

Aum Shinrikyo and MidwestJ sure sound a lot like everybody's favorite fat troll.

[Alestorm]

FYI, the name of the guy in the first picture is Ivan Stoitsov, a bulgarian olympic weightlifter.

[shootwillus]

The thing is, for me to get really really great abs would take effort that would have been counter-productive to my fight training. Obviously, I am cutting body fat for a fight. I am cutting water for the weigh in....and still, my abs were not spectacular. Some people just carry a little more fat in their midsections then others. Take BJ Penn for example. He didn't have abs at 169lbs. He doesn't have them at 155lbs. He's not fat, not even sloppy...but he doesn't have those insane George St. Pierre abs.

Now why is that? Do you really think BJ Penn doesn't have a dietitian? Do you think he doesn't work out enough? Or, wouldn't a more logical and reasonable answer be that he has a genetic tendency to carry a little more subcutaneous body fat (and since he's not a fitness model, getting rid of it would not be in his best interests)?

[Marotta]

Get your squat to 4 plates. You'll find having a six pack DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER

[Evan: Now With Food]

You don't have to get fat in order to get strong, but it's more time efficient. You can put 50lb on your squat in a month of linear progression and eating your ass off, and then take 3 weeks to lose excess fat, or put 50lb on your squat in 6 months while keeping your bodyfat low.

You can do Lyle's "half pound of lean mass a week" plan and be very successful if you don't value your time very highly. Other people are busy and don't have time to fuck around.

[Zee-man]

Aside from the obvious troll in this thread, I think its somewhat funny that others are chiming in with similarly stupid comments.

IE, bodybuilders not being strong - even Rip commented in my thread that the successful bodybuilder are in fact, strong m'fers. Kai Green can bench 5 plates for reps, then pyramid down for reps dropping a plate at a time. Branch Warren has massive legs and his favorite exercises involve the Squat. Johnnie Jackson has videos on Youtube of him Deadlifting 700 something pounds. These alone are just MuscleTech sponsored bodybuilder. All of them have higher lifts than many of us will achieve.

Even Natural Bodybuilders are strong. Many of them are lifting weights that a Strength Lifter will achieve later Intermediate/Early Advanced level. Sure, I don't think anyone here wants to get all greased up and walk around on stage in a thong, but I'd be willing to bet if you met these guys in person, or at a gym, you're not going to mock them or feel superior.

Bodybuilding/Weightlifting/Strength Lifting/Powerlifting all have various levels of eliteness and often times the paramount of each bracket is dominated by those with the best in drugs one can offer. They also have to eat ridiculous amounts of food, like we do to get stronger. Some are genetically gifted, others are given a gift via needle. There are also intermediate levels of each of these, see State competitions, local competitions, etc. And again, there are novice level enthusiasts - see SS, GSLP, BB.com, etc. etc. Most of the people on these forums are in the bottom two categories, especially the last one. You can aspire and hope all you want, but being successful in any of the above mentioned areas requires dedication, time, effort, and proper training and recovery.

No one in any of those categories that succeeds in the upper Intermediate to professional level deserves disrespect on this or any board. IF they are, its only jealousy and nothing else. Good game.

[snyderman3000]

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to get fat. I just think it's unfortunate that so many people believe that not having visible abs means you are fat. I think that chin-ups are a better measure. If you can't jump on the bar and knock out 10 honest, dead-hang chin-ups on demand, then you are either too fat or too weak, and you would be well-advised to fix one or the other (or both).

[Suspenders]

I've never had a good six pack even when I fought at 155lbs cutting from 180lbs+. I now weigh between 205-210. Why didn't I have a six pack?...genetics (and lack of steroids). I have a natural tendency towards thick skin and subcutaneous body fat. The only way I could be awesomely ripped is drugs and/or starvation. Fuck that, I'd rather be strong and happy.

Same here... I'm 5'5.. went down to as low as 133 lbs and still couldn't get a six pack... I'm now 151 lbs, a lot stronger, my physique looks a heck of a lot better... OH and all of my clothes still fits me... just looks a lot fuller!

OP: Speaking of abs? Almost every girl I know would prefer a man with a broad chest/shoulder/back over the abzorz...

[Animelee]

I'm 6'5", and dropped to as low as 157 lbs (this was before I switched from distance running to sprinting), and I didn't have one either. My skin is just too thick for much definition. Whenever I donate blood, the nurses have trouble finding a vein, and they also comment on how thick my skin is compared to most people's.

[BarbellSissy]

Has anyone considered the possibility, that with 130-160 lbs bodyweight, one might not have enough muscle to have visible six-pack, even if one's BF-% was around 10 or so?.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Has anyone considered that a six pack really does not mean a goddamn thing when considering physical ability or health?

[Badman]

I'm 6'5", and dropped to as low as 157 lbs (this was before I switched from distance running to sprinting), and I didn't have one either. My skin is just too thick for much definition. Whenever I donate blood, the nurses have trouble finding a vein, and they also comment on how thick my skin is compared to most people's.

Is it true that you guys don't get bothered by insults as much?

[f4thpathway]

Has anyone considered the possibility, that with 130-160 lbs bodyweight, one might not have enough muscle to have visible six-pack, even if one's BF-% was around 10 or so?.

Sanity. Abdominal muscles must be built just like all other muscles. Most people think having low bodyfat and doing crunches is all that is needed. Terribly wrong. And that is why people think genetics determine whether someone has the exact same abdominal muscles as everyone else. If all you do is silly crunches and such you won't see a six pack. You may have small lines around the top region but no bricks. Even at 5% you won't have rocking abs. That is like expecting to do hundreds of curls with 5 lb weights and expecting to get huge guns. Once the muscles are actually built up they will be visible at higher bodyfat levels. I know, people who don't and never will have them will disagree. That's fine. I happen to KNOW that its true. You can be healthy and still have defined abs.

Jamie is right when he questions the validity of lean obsession. Most people go about it completely wrong, as with most obsessions. But if someone has abs that are built up enough to be visible at 15% they have a solid support structure. Those kind of abs allow for greater strength gains and much improved performance. Baby abs like emaciated crossdressfitters like are useless. The downside is that REAL abs increase waist circumference. They're muscles. It happens. Many people refuse to accept that and strive for the unhealthy result. And that is why serious lifters make fun of them. Ridiculous is ridiculous.

[JC]

Has anyone considered that a six pack really does not mean a goddamn thing when considering physical ability or health?

has anyone been as far as even decided go want to do look more like a wanker?

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"has anyone been as far as even decided go want to do look more like a wanker? "

I know what each of those words mean individually, but when you put them together like that, I have no idea. can you try again?

[hamburgerfan]

It's a reference to an internet meme, where some idiot posted the following sentence: "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like" and no one understood what the hell he meant.

[f4thpathway]

:)

[JC]

Correct. I just added 'a wanker' in reference to the category of humanity that has nothing better to do than obsess over self-image.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Memes. Y U no keep me informed?

[Animelee]

Is it true that you guys don't get bothered by insults as much?

Hah!

[JC]

Memes. Y U no keep me informed?

Informing... impossibru!