Powerclean sets/reps on 5-3-1

[drlvegas]

For you guys who have done this, did you stick with a linear 5x3 sets across, or something 5-3-1ish?

I stayed with the standard linear 5x3 on the split routine, but I'm 45, so the idea of a deload weak and some kind of wave progression is appealing.

Any experiences appreciated.

[pkelly54]

Drivegas,
I found switching to the Texas Method a better routine to address recovery. The TM approach reminds me of the story of an old bull and a young bull on a hill ...

I am not good at power cleans, but I am trying to improve my form to be less of a reverse curl. I am having success making good improvements with the TM approach. The Practical Programming book is a big help, especially when you are not as young as you think you are. Good Luck.

[johnnys]

I thought the conventional wisdom on this board was that TM is NOT good for older folks, and that twice per week workouts were a middle road between the Novice progression and TM - is that wrong?

[drlvegas]

I thought the conventional wisdom on this board was that TM is NOT good for older folks, and that twice per week workouts were a middle road between the Novice progression and TM - is that wrong?

The usual TM adjustment for us elders is to make Mondays 3x5 instead of 5x5. It works pretty well. I switched to a split routine for the sake of time & I prefer 4 lifting days per week.

The key to successful training as you get older is adjusting the volume to what you can recover from.

I'll post my 5-3-1 progress in six months.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

I thought the conventional wisdom on this board was that TM is NOT good for older folks, and that twice per week workouts were a middle road between the Novice progression and TM - is that wrong?

I can think of no reason why TM can't work for older folks. It's about balancing stress and recovery and making progress, which makes it fundamentally no different from any other rational form of programming.

TM is not fixed at a week. It's usually a week, because the week is a convenient cycle, but it need not be. I just started a two-day TM progression that looks like this:

M-Vol
Sat-Rec
M-Int
Sat-Vol
M-Rec
Sat-Int
M-Vol

And so on. This requires a little more attention to detail, because a particular workout does not fall on a particular day, but if I take my gingko and stay on top of my calendar I bet I can make it work.

I'm doing 5x5 for volume to start even though I'm a geezoid; I'll adjust down (or up!) if I have to. Bear in mind that the great thing about TM is its flexibility.

[MikeC1]

TM is extremely flexible, and can very easily and happily be used for older lifters. The caveat of course is you need to know how to set it up for you, or find someone else that is capable of doing so. TM is definitely easier to recover from than the SS novice program, because you have a week to recover from heavy days rather than 2 or 3 days.

Here are some important things you should keep in mind:

1. You don't have to do sets of 5. If you want to push the poundages up (to work on max strength), use lower reps. If you want to work on muscular endurance, use higher reps.

2. You don't have to do 5 sets on volume day. If 4 sets is enough volume to drive progress (and determining how much is 'enough' is its own separate discussion), then you can do 4 sets. If you find that 9 sets is what works, then you can do 9 sets.

3. You don't have to do a 5RM on intensity day. You can do more than one set. You can start with a 5RM, then go for another max set or two. You can use a weight that only allows 4, 3, or 2 reps, and do multiple sets at that weight. One good variable to think about keeping under control is the total number of reps, and trying to keep it inside of a certain range.

4. Your set/rep schemes may be different depending on the lift that you are putting on the TM.

5. You don't have to move all of your lifts to TM simultaneously. (And some lifts you may never want to put on TM.)

6. You don't have to increase weight weekly on volume day, or on intensity day. It will depend on how the workout goes, in terms of set/rep completion, and also on how it feels (easy, hard, very hard, etc), and also on how you feel in the days following the workout (which you will eventually be able to predict with enough lifting experience). You might find yourself repeating weights for a few weeks sometimes. (Interesting story, a famous former president came to my school recently to give a talk, but it was held in the gym, so the gym was closed all day, forcing me to miss my light bench day. I had to repeat the weights the following week because of that.)

7. Light day is critical. Don't skip it.

8. You need to eat at least enough to maintain your bodyweight, if not to increase it. It's best to eat enough to at least gain weight slowly and steadily. If you are losing weight, possibly due to other activities, then you won't make progress on your lifts.

9. It might take a few weeks before you get used to the new routine and start to see positive progress.

10. Sullydog's point, it doesn't have to be on a 7 day schedule, though that is simplest to work into the rest of your non-lifting life.

[pkelly54]

7. Light day is critical. Don't skip it.


MikeC1, Thanks for posting the ten items. Some confirmed what I thought about the Texas Method and some were good ideas I need to think about. I do wonder about the item 7. From my reading of Practical Programing I am under the impression the light day was the most expendable and the intensive day was the least expendable. I would be interested in your thoughts.

[MikeC1]

Quite the opposite, the intensity day is probably the most expendable (don't get me wrong, you need all three days), while the volume and light days are the least expendable; you could at least make some kind of good progress with just the volume and light days if you're smart about how you set them up.

[pkelly54]

I just started a two-day TM progression that looks like this:

M-Vol
Sat-Rec
M-Int
Sat-Vol
M-Rec
Sat-Int
M-Vol

And so on. .

I know it is early, but do you feel you are making progress with this new TM schedule?

[Jonathon Sullivan]

I know it is early, but do you feel you are making progress with this new TM schedule?

Way too soon to tell. I'm still in the middle of the very first cycle. There are a lot of variables in play: my age-related decrepitude, scaling up of Krav/martial arts volume, a slight reduction in caloric intake (won't be growing as fast, so won't be eating as much), etc, etc. I haven't even done my first intensity workout yet (okay, I did one last week, just to get an idea of where I stood, but that was really just a calibration set, and not a response to programming). So, yeah, it's way too early, and I'm sure I'll have to tweak things to optimize progress. I definitely made progress on a two-day LP, so I'm pretty optimistic. You're invited to pop in on my log, have a beer, and watch me thrash it out. It might be amusing.

[bob g]

7. Light day is critical. Don't skip it.


MikeC1, Thanks for posting the ten items. Some confirmed what I thought about the Texas Method and some were good ideas I need to think about. I do wonder about the item 7. From my reading of Practical Programing I am under the impression the light day was the most expendable and the intensive day was the least expendable. I would be interested in your thoughts.

Mike's list and remarks are outstanding. Yes, #7 is critical. I've found that being a bonehead and skipping the light day after a layoff or trying to accelerate gains by cycling only volume and intensity days forces a negative and pretty quick kick in the nads. The recovery day is very much a key to making the programming work.

(I'm 54 and do a modified TM - 3 sets of 5 for volume presses, I just started 5 sets of 3 for volume squats, recovery at roughly 80% of volume day working sets and intensity based on 5-8 total reps at close to 1RM of each lift.)

[pkelly54]

Sullydog, I plan to copy your scheduel especally with the holidays coming. I think I hit a bit of a wall like bob g mentioned. It is rough on the ego when you don't recover well. I have been following coach Ripp's traing techniques and logic for about a year. I am still learning the details, but making some progress. I think the slower but steady approach is the way to go. Sullydog I have checked your training blog and found it helpful. Thanks for keeping ta detailed blog.