Motto for the Elderly

[BillBrownley]

So--once in a while I come across something from my required reading list in high school that bored me to tears as a 17 year old. But when I read it now--I get it.

Ulysses by Alfred Lord Tennyson is one of the best examples of that. It is a poem about Ulysses grown old, and tiring of ruling and caring for his kingdom of those "That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me." Anyone who is truly a geezer and still lifting--read the poem and tell me it does not resonate.


Below is the last bit from "Ulysses".

"Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."

I think there ought to be a Geezer motto. I nominate the last line for the Geezer motto. Nominations are open for a week. Then we choose.

Thanks, Bill

"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."

[Mark E. Hurling]

I've seen that last line a few times over the years and I probably even read that it was from Ulysses. But the context of him having grown old never registered with me until you called it out Bill. Perfect. As much as I think of Beowulf, the Elder Eddas can't touch Tennyson with this profound use of language.

[Mac Ward]

So--once in a while I come across something from my required reading list in high school that bored me to tears as a 17 year old. But when I read it now--I get it.


Youth is wasted on the young...I too have found this same phenomenon in my life.

I love the excerpt, so +1.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

Aye.

[BillBrownley]

Cool--but let's make sure we have other opinions--and a selection committee. Geezers covers a wide age range--at least as we define it. So--I would nominate El Viejo (OG), Mark, Sullydog, Mac (younger side) Oldster, and maybe Carlos who is not a geezer but certainly rises to the level of Geezer consultant.

I could see votes for other suggestions--perhaps Bruce Springsteen's line "No retreat, No Surrender". Or perhaps the definition of entropy an engineer friend of mine had. "You can't win, hell you can't even get even, and there is only one way to get out of the game. But you can fight like hell to slow the process down."

Who else should be on the selection committee?

Thanks, Bill

[Mark E. Hurling]

Oldster fer damn sure.

[Mac Ward]

"You can't win, hell you can't even get even, and there is only one way to get out of the game. But you can fight like hell to slow the process down."


I like that one too!

[BillBrownley]

This is why we need a selection committee and a vote. Plus--Oldster may actually be our Ulysses.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Well I know he’s an avid hunter. If that includes bow season he’s our man! Cause you remember the banquet hall scene with the axe heads, right?

EDIT: By the way, I just noticed we have an Odysseus signed on just now. No idea how old though.

[bob g]

"Eat large, lift large, live large."

Maybe in Latin.

[BillBrownley]

Great--who knows Latin? I mean--some of us are old enough to have this be our spoken native tongue--right?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Latin is a dead language dead as it can be. First it killed the Latins and now it's killing me.

[Bean1871]

"Rust never sleeps."

[Mark E. Hurling]

A little something Beowulf would approve of.

"Wyrd bið ful aræd" Fate is inexorable.

[BillBrownley]

I like both the above. We go from heroic and defiant to humorous and/or resigned. Again--this is why a selection committee. And nothing says we can't have a new motto every week/month/year.

So--SC is Mark, Oldster, Mac (have not heard from Oldster, but would expect to). Carlos consulting?

Another new offering--"Rage, Rage, against the dying of the light, do not go gently into that goodnight". Dylan Thomas

I still like the original best--but we need a group decision.

[phalzee]

Many excellent suggestions. And much as I love The Boss, I'd say, "No retreat; no surrender" is more of a young guy thing. As we age we learn the value of the occasional tactical retreat is it allows us to avoid surrender. The married among us know this to be true.

[pkelly54]

Sometimes the following lyrics from a Leonard Cohen song get stuck in my head after a volume day on TM. "My friends are gone and my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play". Cohen 's song are generally too self centered and depressing.

Possibly consider "Bull**** and brilliance only come with age and experience" that strikes a more positive note.

[mcclamic]

How about "Hey you kids, get off my platform!" or "Lift Until You Die"?

[JETSR71]

Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul. - General Douglas MacArthur

[matclone]

Latin is a dead language dead as it can be. First it killed the Latins and now it's killing me.

Carpe diem, even if it's behind you.

[Tinner2u]

Potius Sero Quam Nunquam ( Better late then never)

[Karl Schudt]

"Eat large, lift large, live large."

Maybe in Latin.


Multo ede, attolle, vive.

Latin isn't dead, it's just not too lively.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I vote for the last lines of Ulysses.

[BillBrownley]

Alright--work is overtaking my real life again, drat it! No retreat, No surrender is out. There are multiple votes for Ulysses. I say we close nominations after the weekend, then Mac, Mark, Oldster, Sullydog and maybe Carlos consulting (or TBone--she likes to gig us) make the final pick. Or anyone else who is a long term consistent poster here. I think I am too sporadic to be a selector. Not enough gravitas, nor do I give enough support to others.

Does this work?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Yup.

[cpbellavia]

My 82 yr old investing professor said the other day, "You'll be alive as long as you live." Then he started laughing because he realized it must've sounded ridiculous....but I liked it.

[matclone]

Sounds like something Yogi Berra would say.

Modification:
If you ain't squattin', you aint' livin'.

[Mac Ward]

So what are we picking from? We can rank them individually and use a weighted total.

[BillBrownley]

Here is the list so far, ranked in order of posting. I did not attribute each offering, as the offerings should stand on their own. I will update this list Monday with anything else that comes in before midnight (EST) Sunday. Then the selectors follow whatever process suits them to select.

1. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
2. You can't win, hell you can't even get even, and there is only one way to get out of the game. But you can fight like hell to slow the process down.
3. Eat large, lift large, live large.
4. Rust never sleeps.
5. Wyrd bið ful aræd" Fate is inexorable.
6. Rage, Rage, against the dying of the light, do not go gently into that goodnight.
7. My friends are gone and my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
8. Bull**** and brilliance only come with age and experience
9. "Hey you kids, get off my platform!"
10. "Lift Until You Die"
11. Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul.
12. Carpe diem, even if it's behind you.
13. Potius Sero Quam Nunquam ( Better late than never)
14. Multo ede, attolle, vive. (this is the Latin version of number 3 above).
15. You'll be alive as long as you live.
16. If you ain't squattin', you aint' livin'.

A lot to like on this list. Maybe we end up with a weekly or monthly revolving motto.

Thanks, Bill

[Mark E. Hurling]

Repeating myself but #1.

[Oldster]

Repeating myself but #1.
The first thing that comes to mind is the title of a favorite book of mine: "Hell, I Was There".

But I have to agree with Mark. They are all great, but #1 is just outstanding.

[Mac Ward]

My opinion hasn't changed either. #1 is my favorite, #2 is a close second.

[Bean1871]

My opinion hasn't changed either. #1 is my favorite, #2 is a close second.

#1 would be my choice.

[pkelly54]

#1 is the best. Should the line have a reference to the poem Ulysses, since the significance of the line is increased? Also, we are geezers, and short term memory can be a challenge.

[Mark E. Hurling]

The first thing that comes to mind is the title of a favorite book of mine: "Hell, I Was There".

But I have to agree with Mark. They are all great, but #1 is just outstanding.

So just to satisfy my curiosity Oldster, do you bow hunt too? Because that just makes the whole Ulysses thing just too damn perfect in your case.

[jwags]

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.”
- Samuel Beckett

[El Viejo]

I vote for #1. Good meaningful quote and most appropriate for the dedicated adult lifter. Plus it's short enough to serve as a motto.

Since we're talking about quotes, I think my all time favorite general weight training quote is from Charles Staley. He said something along the lines of "Look around and observe what the majority of people are doing, then do the opposite".

[Mac Ward]

Suggestion: put it in our signature? Geezers, geezerlings, and geezer friends unite?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Suggestion: put it in our signature? Geezers, geezerlings, and geezer friends unite?

Ha! Geezers of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your walkers!

With apologies to friend tertius and the Wobblies. You have to be a real geezer to know who they were. Just having some geriatric fun here tertius.

[DeeLee]

Many good ones. Number 1 is beautiful as well and thus my favorite. My second pick is the MacArthur quote.

I guess "trample the weak, hurdle the dead" is no good (saw a t-shirt from a martial arts training studio with that on it and loved it, in a sick kind of way ��). Might give the young ones ideas....

[Mark E. Hurling]

I guess "trample the weak, hurdle the dead" is no good (saw a t-shirt from a martial arts training studio with that on it and loved it, in a sick kind of way ��). Might give the young ones ideas....

Oh yeah? Just let their young asses try! Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm.

[DeeLee]

TI will work on the treachery then, hahaha! Old age will take care of itself.

[algunos hombre]

I've always been fond of William Ernest Henley's "Invictus". Loved it when I was required to memorize it as a teen (several decades ago) and really never lost any appreciation for it.


Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Call me grumpy, but I really dislike "modern" versions of the Bible. KJV is the way to go AFAIC, I enjoy the poetry of the language. I Corinthians 13:11 has some good geezer thoughts to it.


When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

[JuJuman]

I am new here ,but I am old(in years). I like Ulysses and Invictus, and I agree about the KJV. I put forth another quotation I cannot attribute-Adjust, Adapt, Survive( a little like Gunny Highway in
Heartbreak Ridge)

[Oldster]

So just to satisfy my curiosity Oldster, do you bow hunt too? Because that just makes the whole Ulysses thing just too damn perfect in your case.
I do sometimes if the season corresponds with my out of State hunting trips. I've taken a few deer and elk with my little 49lb recurve bow that I bought when I was 12 years old and still use today. I've been making my own arrows using Port Orford cedar shafts since I was 12 too! None of those new fangled sights, cams and pulleys for this old......Oldster. Point and shoot man, point and shoot.

[pkelly54]

Henley's Invictus is a young man's poem. While both deal with one’s will, Invictus is a defiance of major power or conditions. Ulysses is more an acceptance of life’s and time’s diminution of one’s strength and the continued maintaining one’s will. Invictus is more “in your face” Ulysses is more “never give up”. While both are powerful poems, I think Ulysses is more for geezers.

[BillBrownley]

1. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
2. You can't win, hell you can't even get even, and there is only one way to get out of the game. But you can fight like hell to slow the process down.
3. Eat large, lift large, live large.
4. Rust never sleeps.
5. Wyrd bið ful aræd" Fate is inexorable.
6. Rage, Rage, against the dying of the light, do not go gently into that goodnight.
7. My friends are gone and my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
8. Bull**** and brilliance only come with age and experience
9. "Hey you kids, get off my platform!"
10. "Lift Until You Die"
11. Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul.
12. Carpe diem, even if it's behind you.
13. Potius Sero Quam Nunquam ( Better late than never)
14. Multo ede, attolle, vive. (this is the Latin version of number 3 above).
15. You'll be alive as long as you live.
16. If you ain't squattin', you aint' livin'.
17. Better Late Than Never
18. "Hell, I Was There".
19. "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.”
20. "Look around and observe what the majority of people are doing, then do the opposite".
21. "trample the weak, hurdle the dead"
22. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
23. Adjust, Adapt, Survive
24. The entire Invictus poem which ends with “I am the Captain of my soul”

This includes all new additions. Time for the selection committee to speak, and then determine usage.

Thanks, Bill

[Mac Ward]

I remain firmly in favor of #1.

[pkelly54]

I was just reading these posts again. I said to myself “Self, the geezer group including the young’uns, have such a positive attitude about life.” I don’t know if it because lifters are relatively strong and healthy and therefore have a positive outlook or people with a positive outlook are attracted to weightlifting. Either way, I would rather hang out (even if it is only on a forum) with people who look at tomorrow with a “bring it on” attitude.

Pete
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield

[BillBrownley]

Well--except we forgot to actually codify it.

Thanks, Bill

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield

[jimk]

Too late to join the party? I like Mark Twain's "you get good judgment from experience; you get experience from bad judgment." Widely applicable across a range of behaviors, including lifting.

[Gwynn]

Well--except we forgot to actually codify it.

Thanks, Bill

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield

I think it sounds better like this:

"To strive, to seek, to find, and never to yield."

[BillBrownley]

Umm--if he were alive you could argue that with Alfred Lord Tennyson. Who wrote the poem the line comes from. Perhaps we would avoid some kind of copyright liability by slightly misquoting.

[Bergie]

#1 has my vote, in its original form. "...and not to yeild"

Which, by the way, was the title of a mountian climbing book by James Ramsey Ullman

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Yeild-James-Ramsey-Ullman/dp/B000K0GNZG/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330098976&sr=1-1

[Mark E. Hurling]

Mountain climbing. Not that it exactly fits with the overall theme here but it's a great expression about what we here at any age do:

Feeding the Rat: A Climber's Life on the Edge A. Alvarez

Feeding the rat refers to (in this context) the need for taking the risk, looking for the challenge, and overcoming said challenge and risk. Adrenaline junkies of the world unite! Especially us old ones!

[Karl Schudt]

I think it sounds better like this:

"To strive, to seek, to find, and never to yield."

It messes up the scansion:

To STRIVE, to SEEK, to FIND, and NOT to YIELD.

Iambic pentameter.

[Audun Runde]

Iambic pentameter.

The treasures of being slightly more mature ... we can contribute these bits of facts / insights / wisdom we have accumulated over the years.
And, to give byzkarl credit, I actually now understand why he said 'It messes up the scansion' -- because I had to look up this stuff!

This site and the contributors are a treasure. May we (continue) to live for a long, long time *grin*.

[BillBrownley]

OK--so alpha dog committee--what is the use of our motto to be? Now that it is defined?

[Mark E. Hurling]

OK--so alpha dog committee--what is the use of our motto to be? Now that it is defined?

How do you mean the use of Bill? Like on a coffee mug or some such thing? A tatoo on the right forearm to show before we do the secret handshake?

[Gwynn]

The treasures of being slightly more mature ... we can contribute these bits of facts / insights / wisdom we have accumulated over the years.
And, to give byzkarl credit, I actually now understand why he said 'It messes up the scansion' -- because I had to look up this stuff!

This site and the contributors are a treasure. May we (continue) to live for a long, long time *grin*.

Fine. I won't mess with the poetry. However, I'm older than byzkarl.

[Simma Park]

It messes up the scansion

Well, there's always:

To STRIVE, to SEEK, to FIND, and NE'ER to YIELD.

On the one hand, the ne'er diminishes catchiness.

On the other hand, it emphasizes that we're old.

As in: We're so old that we use anachronistic contractions, bitchez!

[BillBrownley]

Tatoo....hmmm great idea. Along with the secret shake. And perhaps it becomes the password by which we can recognize each other at the Rippetoe meet. You know--a call and answer type thing.

"I was seeking some free beer."

"You should strive not to yield that ambition".

[Karl Schudt]

Fine. I won't mess with the poetry. However, I'm older than byzkarl.

I am merely a freshly minted geezling, but I do know a dactyl from an iamb.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Tatoo....hmmm great idea. Along with the secret shake. And perhaps it becomes the password by which we can recognize each other at the Rippetoe meet. You know--a call and answer type thing.

"I was seeking some free beer."

"You should strive not to yield that ambition".

You know I got that silly-ass idea from the Masonic signs and countersigns that figured so prominently in The Man Who Would Be King. I'm gradually coming to the conclusion that I am way too influenced by Hollywood. But who can resist a movie with Michael Caine and Sean Connery?

[BillBrownley]

Wait--you were kidding? I was serious. Oh man, I feel so alone. I was busy designing the tattoo.

Agreed on the movie.

[AKAJake]

We have a secret handshake? Why doesn't anyone tell me these things? :-(

[Gwynn]

I am merely a freshly minted geezling, but I do know a dactyl from an iamb.

I like the way that sounds, although I'd have to look it up to know what it means. It sounds like something Thurber would have one of his characters in "13 Clocks" or "White Deer" or "Wonderful O" say. I know much more about modern dance than I do about poetry.

[Simma Park]

Sean Connery?

I've got it!


An old man calls me. The voice of the turtle is heard in the land.

/thread

[Mark E. Hurling]

Wait--you were kidding? I was serious. Oh man, I feel so alone. I was busy designing the tattoo.

Agreed on the movie.

I didn't exactly say I was kidding. What have you got in mind for a tattoo, a Galapagos tortise or say a bristlecone pine?

[BillBrownley]

Well--I tend toward the romantic and self aggrandizing--so maybe a Trojan helmet with the words "To Strive, To Seek, To Find" in a semi-circle above the helmet with "And Not To Yield" in a semi-circle below.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Well--I tend toward the romantic and self aggrandizing--so maybe a Trojan helmet with the words "To Strive, To Seek, To Find" in a semi-circle above the helmet with "And Not To Yield" in a semi-circle below.

Not bad, but given my own attachment to all things Germanic (you can keep all them high-falutin' Greeks) how about a horned helmet a la Beowulf would wear? After all, Achilles died young. As I've said before, after Beowulf slew Grendel he lived on into old age and died of his wounds after having slain an evil dragon that was ravaging his kingdom and the fair maidens therein.

[Gwynn]

Not bad, but given my own attachment to all things Germanic (you can keep all them high-falutin' Greeks) how about a horned helmet a la Beowulf would wear? After all, Achilles died young. As I've said before, after Beowulf slew Grendel he lived on into old age and died of his wounds after having slain an evil dragon that was ravaging his kingdom and the fair maidens therein.

Guys, I have vowed to leave the left side of my body free of ink and now you come up with this! How will I resist?

[BillBrownley]

Perhaps simply an ancient form sword--point down or up? That would cover both worlds. I am Germanic Norse extraction myself--but the Greeks were pretty amazing. We owe an awful lot of Western Civilization to their ideas, culture, philosophy, prowess at war, politics, and technology.

If there had not been Thermopylae, this world might be quite a different place. Which I guess is true of many turning points in history. Which is why alternative history can be so much fun.

But--I am not sure that the Germanic/Norse had quite the same worldwide impact.

Democracy was an incredibly radical idea when the Greeks conceived of it--and actually utilized it. In fact--nothing like it had ever existed, it was a world of tyrannies in one form or another. And most civilizations liked it that way, and felt there was no other way to rule. In fact, culturally, that is probably still true today.

[BillBrownley]

I forgot to mention science and the arts.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Guys, I have vowed to leave the left side of my body free of ink and now you come up with this! How will I resist?

If we do the secret handshake with the right hand, your left forearm should help you keep your vow.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Perhaps simply an ancient form sword--point down or up? That would cover both worlds. I am Germanic Norse extraction myself--but the Greeks were pretty amazing. We owe an awful lot of Western Civilization to their ideas, culture, philosophy, prowess at war, politics, and technology.

The sword is easy, a scramsax. Roughly the Northern European equivalent of the Roman gladius or the Spartan xiphos. They were intended for use in a locked shield wall formation used by all three of them. The Saxon or Viking longsword was too unwieldy at those close quarters. Point up or down is a tougher call. I've always been the last to initiate an attack and I've never actually killed anyone so I supose point (defensor) is most appropriate.


But--I am not sure that the Germanic/Norse had quite the same worldwide impact.

Democracy was an incredibly radical idea when the Greeks conceived of it--and actually utilized it. In fact--nothing like it had ever existed, it was a world of tyrannies in one form or another. And most civilizations liked it that way, and felt there was no other way to rule. In fact, culturally, that is probably still true today.

Ahhh, the Greeks just liked to talk more, and had an easier written language than runes. Check out the Viking World Tour t-shirt some time. Let's see if I can geezer my way through posting it. hbreim can probably attest better than I how well the Norse Thing (public assembly) worked as a fairly democratic form of government.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.scandiaspecialties.com/image/cache/data/Shirts/TourBack-500x500.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.scandiaspecialties.com/index.php%3Froute%3Dproduct/product%26product_id%3D58&h=500&w=500&sz=91&tbnid=X6yNzJPbVDoUgM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dviking%2Bworld%2Btour%2Bt%2Bshirt%26t bm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=viking+world+tour+t+shirt&docid=7ITMBnz4Vb8IxM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rDxRT8DVOajjiALr_oi1Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CLMBEPUBMA0&dur=1109

Lots' o' stops on that crazy train.

[BillBrownley]

Perhaps we use some form of rune. Except I don't know much about them. I heard one that looks like a simplistic arrow pointing up--as if you were shooting the sky--means something like the following:

“Tyr” the Norse god, Courage, Duty, Truth, Victory, Protection, Leadership, Determination, Responsibility, Skill, Justice, Self-Sacrifice, the Warrior’s Path.

[jimmyc]

"Rust never Sleeps" Neil Young

"Twenty years from now you will be more disapointed by the things that you didn't do, than by the ones that you did" Mark Twain

[Gwynn]

Today, "to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" got me my five squats at 202.5. Most particularly, the "and not to yield" line. I recant my previous barbaric suggestion to replace "not" with "never" and will be using it in the future whenever my fifth rep needs a little extra grit. :-)

[pkelly54]

Congratulations on your successful workout. You statement gets to an essential point on geezer training. It once again shows why Bill's suggested motto is so good.

[Karl Schudt]

Today, "to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" got me my five squats at 202.5. Most particularly, the "and not to yield" line. I recant my previous barbaric suggestion to replace "not" with "never" and will be using it in the future whenever my fifth rep needs a little extra grit. :-)

Never underestimate the power of iambic pentameter, only to be exceeded by dactylic hexameter.

Arma virumque cano troiae qui primus ab oris
Italiam fato profugus laviniaque venit. . .

[Mark E. Hurling]

Latin is a dead language, dead as it can be. First it killed the Latins and now it's killing me.

I personally prefer the first word in Beowulf: Hwæt! Which means, listen up. I can almost visualize R. Lee Ermey bellowing that out while dressed in a hooded cloak in front of a hall-hearth.

But then the first lines of the Illiad aren't bad either: Rage — Goddess, sing the rage of Peleus’ son Achilles.

But like I keep reminding people, Achilles was dead before he was 30. Beowulf lived on to a ripe old age and died of his wounds after he actually slew a dragon.

[Timojin]

Lift heavy and often and get killed in a bar fight at 85.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Lift heavy and often and get killed in a bar fight at 85.

As hard as I'm trying to find something in this noble aspiration to achieve, I can think of 100 better ways than to die than gurgling in the toxic waste that seeped into the knotholes of some goddam dive with Tammy Wynette wailing in the background on some sorry ass juke box.

[Timojin]

I just wanted to reply "me too" but the system demanded more letters so here they are.

[pkelly54]

As hard as I'm trying to find something in this noble aspiration to achieve, I can think of 100 better ways than to die than gurgling in the toxic waste that seeped into the knotholes of some goddam dive with Tammy Wynette wailing in the background on some sorry ass juke box.

Mark, LOL thanks. I don't know what made me laugh more, the visual of a dead pumped up geezer with the Tammy Wynette tunes as the background music, or the juxtaposition of Tammy Wynette and Beowulf. The former is not the stuff of epics, however, Tammy Wynette signing in iambic pentameter, well that could have been something.

[Mark E. Hurling]

In her latter days Tammy could very well have been Grendel's mother. And I don't mean that hot looking one voiced by Mrs. Pitt.

[pkelly54]

I saw the new Bond movie last weekend. I discovered Dame Judi Dench could be a potential starting strength geezer, although she is 77. She did quote the last lines of Tennyson's Ulysses. I thought is was so cool, it made me want to go and lift something heavy.

Bill Brownley should ask for some screenwriter's credit.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I really like Dame Dench. I have to see that movie. Craig is THE BEST Bond since Connery. He's completely retro in the sense of returning the roots of the thuggish bad-ass Bond was when Fleming wrote his stuff. It campier and campier as it went on especially with Roger Moore. Worse in his own way than Lazenby.

[Joe Murphy]

I really like Dame Dench. I have to see that movie. Craig is THE BEST Bond since Connery. He's completely retro in the sense of returning the roots of the thuggish bad-ass Bond was when Fleming wrote his stuff. It campier and campier as it went on especially with Roger Moore. Worse in his own way than Lazenby.

Hear him! The first Craig/Bond may have been the best Bond movie ever. A lot of people didn't understand it was a modern-day prequel... James becoming a 00, etc. The second one sucked, but Craig was pretty good in it. I haven't seen the new one, yet, but look forward to it. Connery will probably always be the archetypical Bond, but the lame SFX and plots from those movies haven't aged well. And Moore-- what was up with that. I see some of the Saint once in a while and understand the appeal... but his Bond fell flat with me.

Has anyone read "The Irregulars," by Jennet Conant? Roald Dahl, Ian Fleming, David Ogilvy, etc. Not the most well-written book, but it's quite a read. http://www.amazon.com/Irregulars-Roald-British-Wartime-Washington/dp/B003JTHSD6 I'm a big fan of all three of those guys and it's really a quite amazing they were all 'spies' together....

[Mark E. Hurling]

The Saint. Hah! Exactly. A perfect Saint for the BBC and the telly. But that was the pinnacle of Moore's capacity. Weak woosie.

No Patrick McGoohan in Secret Agent Man or The Prisoner either. Not even a Patrick McNee in The Avengers. I'll grant you the Avengers jumped the shark in camp now and again, but Diana Rigg in a leather jumpsuit when I was in my teens? I could have cared less. Hell, even now.

What is it about the Scots? No one else does Bond better. But then Bond was a Scot.

[ChessGuy]

Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul. - General Douglas MacArthur

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