Jump stretch band chinups as assistance when you can only do 5 regular

[Michael Loucas]

So I just started cycle 2 of 5-3-1, and I started using chin-ups as assistance on press day. Jim says you shouldn't use bodyweight movements as assistance until you can do at least 10 reps. Well I can only do 5 right now as 1 max set.

What do you think about using band chinups when you can already do a small amount of deadhangs?

I tried yesterday. Where I can normally do like 5-4-4-3-3 at bodyweight without any other work thrown in, I instead got 10-10-6-5-6 with the blue iron woody band supersetting with 5x10 at 60% of my max bench press.

Do you think I should just work on my deadhangs at bodyweight until I can get 10, and then throw them in as assistance? Or will I get stronger plus increase my chinups by doing them with a band?

I workout at home so I don't have access to a lat pulldown. Also what do you think about adding weight to banded chin-ups?

Height 5'11.5
Bodyweight 225

Thanks!

P.S. I recently ran a complete smolov cycle, both base and intense. I gained about 15 lbs of bodyweight (215-231) and brought my squat from 365 to 450 in about 15 weeks (couple extra rest days so it took an extra 2 weeks). My chins went from about 5-6 down to about 1 (if that) when I was finished. I've since been cleaning up my diet and my body comp has been improving, and I have been doing the frequency method for chins (a couple sets, 1-2 times a day) and I was able to get my chinups back up to where they were, but I'd like them to get stronger.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Once a client can get even one chin up, we rarely chin with assistance. Even doing 20 x 1 will work. The hardest part about chins is going from 0 to 1. I'd stay without assistance if you can. As your body comp improves and you adapt to being 15 lbs heavier your numbers will climb back up.

So smolov worked for you.....congrats. Most people quit the thing or screw it up and don't get much out of it. It shows that you have the brains not to fuck with the program and the balls to do it as rx'd. Nicely done. 365 to 450 is damn good progress in 15 weeks.

[Michael Loucas]

Once a client can get even one chin up, we rarely chin with assistance. Even doing 20 x 1 will work. The hardest part about chins is going from 0 to 1. I'd stay without assistance if you can. As your body comp improves and you adapt to being 15 lbs heavier your numbers will climb back up.

So smolov worked for you.....congrats. Most people quit the thing or screw it up and don't get much out of it. It shows that you have the brains not to fuck with the program and the balls to do it as rx'd. Nicely done. 365 to 450 is damn good progress in 15 weeks.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. And yeah, I got out of it surprisingly with no injuries except some shoulder/elbow tendonitis which I quickly was able to fix after watching the video Rip made about bar position.

[mlentzner]

Bands are suspect IMO. They screw up the power curve because they assist more at the bottom than at the top. I end up with females who can do many assisted chins, but can't break the elbow in an unassisted chin.

[stejor]

I'm curious, why is it recommended for novices to do something like 20x1 on chins? I know bodyweight movements are not quite the same as lifting, but I would think that doing that kind of volume at maybe 95% of your 1RM could cause tendonitis and other such problems.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Bands are suspect IMO. They screw up the power curve because they assist more at the bottom than at the top. I end up with females who can do many assisted chins, but can't break the elbow in an unassisted chin.

Yes. I have had the same experience. I have actually had more luck with manual assistance than with bands or assistance machines. Its very subjective and hard to quantify, but it works well in my experience.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I'm curious, why is it recommended for novices to do something like 20x1 on chins? I know bodyweight movements are not quite the same as lifting, but I would think that doing that kind of volume at maybe 95% of your 1RM could cause tendonitis and other such problems.

Yes, it could cause tendonitis. I only do something like that if I am working with an athlete where I feel like chinning strength is very very important and there is a need to get those numbers up fast. MMA, BJJ, Swimming, would be examples where chinning strength has pretty noticeable results very quickly.

As with almost all my recommendations, very little is UNIVERSALLY applied. So it would be inaccurate to state that "Andy Baker recommends that all novices do 20x1 on chins".

[mlentzner]

Yes. I have had the same experience. I have actually had more luck with manual assistance than with bands or assistance machines. Its very subjective and hard to quantify, but it works well in my experience.

I had one young lady do lots of assisted half chins (bottom to half way up with a red band) and she did make it to a single. It's also been my experience that men have trouble at the top (getting the jawline fully over the bar) while the women seem to have more trouble getting started. I guess it's the difference in arm strength.

[Michael Loucas]

I had one young lady do lots of assisted half chins (bottom to half way up with a red band) and she did make it to a single. It's also been my experience that men have trouble at the top (getting the jawline fully over the bar) while the women seem to have more trouble getting started. I guess it's the difference in arm strength.

Maybe also flexibility? Perhaps thats why men have more trouble at the top. (me being one of them) I was thinking once I have a respectable number of chins (10+) maybe I'll try tying a kettlebell or weight to me, but have it rest on the floor until I get halfway up with the chin, to make it harder at the top. Thats usually where I fail, once I get to/past the halfway point. I sometimes even make progress with half reps. Like I'll get 5 one day with no more left in the tank, then the next time 5 is easier and I get halfway to the 6th.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Maybe also flexibility? Perhaps thats why men have more trouble at the top. (me being one of them) I was thinking once I have a respectable number of chins (10+) maybe I'll try tying a kettlebell or weight to me, but have it rest on the floor until I get halfway up with the chin, to make it harder at the top. Thats usually where I fail, once I get to/past the halfway point. I sometimes even make progress with half reps. Like I'll get 5 one day with no more left in the tank, then the next time 5 is easier and I get halfway to the 6th.

Tie a chain around your ankle and leave it on the floor. Like a westside squat. It is pretty cool.

[Michael Loucas]

That's very clever. Thanks.