Training with a Hangover

[stef]

by Bill Starr

“I made it a point to push them to personal records on several of the exercises in the program for that day. I wanted to show them that they did have control over their bodies, even when they wanted to throw up or just go lie down on the sit-up boards”

Article (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/hangover_starr)

Resources Page (http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources/)

[B4PJS]

Awesome article. Took me back to my days in the army. The PTIs loved to thrash us if we had a hangover. Also explains how I managed to get through so many Basic Fitness Tests with a hangover. I had carb loaded the night before :-)

[soycuadrado]

What a revealing article - this is a great read. Thank you.

[Harry Flashman]

I'm surprised Starr didn't mention hydration. I've found so long as I can remember to drink a litre of water prior to going to bed after coming back from the piss, then drink more upon getting up, I feel much less like shit than had I not, during training.
Anyway the article was good.

[Wyjowe]

No, they all reassured me, all they wanted was the key. They wanted to see if they could train
under the influence of LSD. It seemed absurd, yet I had watched Jack Hill win the Teen-Age Nationals
in 1969 while he was on the drug. I gave them the key

That's got to be the trip of his lifetime!

[JM3]

It amazes me that for once in my life I feel highly qualified to comment on something and equally untempted to do so.

[Jim Slade]

These Bill Starr articles would make a great book.

[Patrick]

If Starr ever wrote a book of essays I'd buy it for sure.

I do have the dubious distinction of having trained with a hangover far more times than it would be socially acceptable to admit, and I learned fairly early that it's a great way to shake off the symptoms of boozing. It really sucks in the beginning but as you get through warm-ups and your first couple of working sets you start to feel like something resembling human again. However, while varsity college athletes can probably get away with impaired recovery on a semi-regular basis, the quality of drunk sleep is horrific and if you string together too many of those nights you'll be digging yourself into a hole.

[wal]

I'm surprised Starr didn't mention hydration.

That is I suspect because the article is written without any knowledge of the side effects of excessive alcohol consumption on the athlete.

http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/banzai/run/feature/-/8804382/exercising-with-a-hangover-do-or-dont/

[Mark Rippetoe]

Wal, I assure you that the author has extremely intimate knowledge and vast experience with the effects of alcohol on the athlete. This may be the silliest thing you've ever typed.

[wal]

OK I will take your word for it but it just sounded strange to me. You know my opinion about alcohol and sport, I just don't like seeing potentially good athletes drink themselves into a hangover and try and train the next day. To me if you are dedicated and want to be the best at whatever you do you have to make sacrifices. Why put yourself at a disadvantage as any type of sport is so competitive today. Stuffed if I know.

[jillingworth]

Sometimes, you actually have to live life and train. Things like weddings, wakes, and friendly get-togethers happen. Most folks figure out where the balance line is.

[Sevag]

OK I will take your word for it but it just sounded strange to me. You know my opinion about alcohol and sport, I just don't like seeing potentially good athletes drink themselves into a hangover and try and train the next day. To me if you are dedicated and want to be the best at whatever you do you have to make sacrifices. Why put yourself at a disadvantage as any type of sport is so competitive today. Stuffed if I know.

I think the point isn't that Starr wants to get the athletes hung over to maximize their performance, but rather Starr wants to deal with those unavoidable times when college guys are hung over.

[wal]

I think the point isn't that Starr wants to get the athletes hung over to maximize their performance, but rather Starr wants to deal with those unavoidable times when college guys are hung over.

Have you ever cut wood with an ax that has a dull edge? It takes more force to drive the blade in. If the edge is honed well it cuts easily and with less force. My point is when you are hungover it takes the edge of your training and degrades your abilities. You cannot drive a car well after a hangover, same goes for any physical exercise. Training to overcome a hangover is a waste of energy apart from the fact that your body has pissed out all night and the next day you are dehydrated.

You have to make a choice. Yes that type of dedication will stuff up your social life,( Starr is not talking about weddings and wakes, but "party central") but what do you want a podium finish or an also ran? Bill Starr is probably an excellent trainer, if Rippetoe vouches for him he must be OK. However if I was a trainer (which I am not) if you came to me to train hungover I would tell you to piss off home. Sorry boys.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You're not really interested in having a team, are you wal?

[wal]

Do you think I am a bit too tough? Well when one team member who comes to train is hungover that lets the whole team down. If the whole team comes in for training pissed, I guess I am out of a job.

I know about teams I have worked in a team environment for about 30 years, we have a 3 strike rule, come in hungover after a drug and alcohol test 3 times and your gone. No appeal, no questions, just out the door, what that does is to put pressure on the rest of the team because the same amount of work has to be done but with one less pulling the sled. You have to be fair, same rules applies to everybody.

As for an individual training if they want to train with a hangover well they have to make up their own mind what is most important the booze or the prize at the end. I am too old to change so I guess I will not get the position as your assistant. What a bugger. By the way I know what it is to live in a drought especially if you are on the land.

[Corrie]

Have you ever cut wood with an ax that has a dull edge? It takes more force to drive the blade in. If the edge is honed well it cuts easily and with less force. My point is when you are hungover it takes the edge of your training and degrades your abilities. You cannot drive a car well after a hangover, same goes for any physical exercise. Training to overcome a hangover is a waste of energy apart from the fact that your body has pissed out all night and the next day you are dehydrated.

You have to make a choice. Yes that type of dedication will stuff up your social life,( Starr is not talking about weddings and wakes, but "party central") but what do you want a podium finish or an also ran? Bill Starr is probably an excellent trainer, if Rippetoe vouches for him he must be OK. However if I was a trainer (which I am not) if you came to me to train hungover I would tell you to piss off home. Sorry boys.

1. It was Starr's job to train the team to the best of his ablity, not to babysit them or make life decisions for them.

2. At some point you have to face reality and understand that people are going to do these things and you have to learn to work around them.

[Mark Edward]

Bill Starr is probably an excellent trainer

This is fucking hilarious.

[wal]

1. It was Starr's job to train the team to the best of his ablity, not to babysit them or make life decisions for them.

2. At some point you have to face reality and understand that people are going to do these things and you have to learn to work around them.

It is not a question of babysitting or making life decisions, it is about personal responsibility to yourself, your team and your trainer, if you think you can give your best after a night out on the piss well go ahead.

If the coach on the other hand came in the next day hungover do you think that is a responsible attitude towards those he trains? I think not, likewise if you are serious about giving your best at whatever you do then as I said you need to make sacrifices. And the night life is only one of them.

If you don't like that type of dedication well there is nothing I can do for you.

[steelo]

Do you think I am a bit too tough? Well when one team member who comes to train is hungover that lets the whole team down. If the whole team comes in for training pissed, I guess I am out of a job.

I know about teams I have worked in a team environment for about 30 years, we have a 3 strike rule, come in hungover after a drug and alcohol test 3 times and your gone. No appeal, no questions, just out the door, what that does is to put pressure on the rest of the team because the same amount of work has to be done but with one less pulling the sled. You have to be fair, same rules applies to everybody.

As for an individual training if they want to train with a hangover well they have to make up their own mind what is most important the booze or the prize at the end. I am too old to change so I guess I will not get the position as your assistant. What a bugger. By the way I know what it is to live in a drought especially if you are on the land.

Tried and true professionals in any sport, profession, etc, are play makers. They deliver in less than ideal circumstances, with less than ideal tools. They lead from the front, and demand victory despite the conditions. Would you rather would rather give up on a team member than to spurr them on to greatness. Would you not find a certain satisfaction in that?

[wal]

Tried and true professionals in any sport, profession, etc, are play makers. They deliver in less than ideal circumstances, with less than ideal tools. They lead from the front, and demand victory despite the conditions. Would you rather would rather give up on a team member than to spurr them on to greatness. Would you not find a certain satisfaction in that?

Of course, yes you are correct. However there are enough challenges putting a team together such as sponsorship, training schedules, talent levels of individual players, personality clashes, injuries, the pressure to produce a season win from the supporters etc. Why the hell would you permit athletes to participate or train hungover? It does not make any sense. Today more than ever sport of any type is very competitive. Opposing teams are looking for any weakness that can be exploited. Why give them a helping hand? Sorry, no excuses, want to train? then don't come pissed!

[Mark Rippetoe]

What the hell makes you think you can control the behavior of a bunch of college athletes? Are you crazy? Or are you just willing to cut off your nose to spite your face/shitcan everybody on the team who parties?

[wal]

If you came across a trainee that had the potential to be a great lifter, I mean someone with real talent, not wannabes like me, if he turned up hungover each training session would you accept that? I don't reckon you would. 100% total commitment is what you would demand, don't tell me that is behavior control, it is bloody guidance. It is the same way you treat your kids, if they were affected by drugs or alcohol and it affected their performance at school or work would you not do something about it?

A team, an individual, your children there is no difference it is your responsibility to get the best from them and that sometimes requires tough leadership, yes you may become unpopular. No one including myself ever said it is easy. You do what you think is best.

[GOMAD]

Some of the best games of rugby I ever played were when most of us were still a little buzzed from the night before. Especially on the tours to Ireland.

In some regards it's a cultural thing and it comes down to knowing what you control in regards to team behavior and what youre better of accepting and even making something of.

In the last club I played for we had a real drinking culture and it did get a little out of hand. The coach flipped it around and said anyone who plays especially poorly in training doesn't get to join in on the after match boozing. If you play poorly in a match then it's an open bar on your tab... Problem solved.

[Hercp]

Of course, yes you are correct. However there are enough challenges putting a team together such as sponsorship, training schedules, talent levels of individual players, personality clashes, injuries, the pressure to produce a season win from the supporters etc. Why the hell would you permit athletes to participate or train hungover? It does not make any sense. Today more than ever sport of any type is very competitive. Opposing teams are looking for any weakness that can be exploited. Why give them a helping hand? Sorry, no excuses, want to train? then don't come pissed!

I think you're missing one point of the article; the training they did when they were on a hangover was so exhausting that after the 3rd or 4th time they realized that they had to be sober to train and that's what they did eventually. You gave them a 3 strike ban. The result is the same in either case.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If you came across a trainee that had the potential to be a great lifter, I mean someone with real talent, not wannabes like me, if he turned up hungover each training session would you accept that? I don't reckon you would. 100% total commitment is what you would demand, don't tell me that is behavior control, it is bloody guidance. It is the same way you treat your kids, if they were affected by drugs or alcohol and it affected their performance at school or work would you not do something about it?

Wal, your problem is that you think ALL drinking is a problem, and you therefore give yourself too big a problem to solve.

[wal]

Wal, your problem is that you think ALL drinking is a problem, and you therefore give yourself too big a problem to solve.

I did not say all drinking is a problem, but the potential is there. You maybe one of the few that can control it, but I have seen tougher men than you in a moment of weakness succumb to its influence and then plague them for the rest of their lives.

Bill Starr's article is about training with a hangover, but what some of these young athletes don't realize is the immediate effect of binge drinking maybe over come by some physical training, but the overall effects are cumulative. Old habits die hard, therefore it is my opinion that it is better to discourage the "party time" attitude.

Bill Starr says train them hard and they will correct themselves to a certain extent. I say don't come to training pissed at all, that is if you want to excel in your chosen sport. Now you may not like what I say and If I have to go it alone on this issue so be it. I work with young men and yes they drink, and you are right I cannot stop them, but if they come to work hungover I send them home, why should training be any different, is it not as important as anything else you do?

[Adam Moncrieff MacMillan]

Wal I don't think you understand what university sports are like. At the professional level it's a different matter I'm sure. I'm at St Andrews and our rowing team is pretty decent at the university level though it still joked that it is a "drinking club with a rowing problem", it is competive but we still have to fill an eight. There's only so many 6ft4 people who are dedicated enough to row or aren't doing some other sport like rugby or swimming. It's the same situation with football in America I presume, there's only a handful of 275lbs+ lineman material walking around. It's always better to have a boat full tall muscular guys that are operating at 70% becuase they're hungover vs some average people who never drink but are still shit comparatively.

[wal]

I am in the last category Adam average but still shit. Ha! I understand what you are saying, but I would like to see those guys operating at 100%. Alcohol consumption is causing a huge problem in my country especially among the young kids, it is so hard for them to resist peer pressure.

To me as stupid as I am I would like to change that, but Rippetoe is right how the hell can I change the behavior of bunch of college athletes, the short answer to that questions is I can't. However men like you and coaches like Rippetoe can at least try. So Adam if the other rowing team is rowing at 70% I guess you guys have chance to win the cup.

Anyway I am getting out of here before Rippetoe throws me out.