Recreational Lifting with Misanthrope

[Misanthrope]

Figured I might as well have a journal here and do my part in helping to keep the place active. I'm known to be fairly long-winded, so I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

Introduction
Name: Matt
Age: 25
Height: 5'11
Weight: 210-215
Body fat: Yes

I began lifting in January of '06. I spent a number of months improvising and trying a couple of different programs, unsure of what I should be doing. After devoting a lot of time reading and research, I began to get a better handle on what I was doing. In July of '06 I began the now infamous "Starting Strength" program. This lasted 20 weeks and finally ended in November. My lifts were absolutely horrible when I began this program. Although they were still far from respectable by the end of it, I had made some good improvements, nonetheless. I finsihed off the year with a Starr 5x5 program.

In January of '07 I began an Iron Addict program that I made little progress with. I became increasingly interested in experimenting and trying new things in a better effort to design my own training plans rather than follow a cookie cutter designed by someone else. I've spent the rest of this year experimenting with upper/lower splits to mixed results. It has been a great learning process for me, as each adjustment worked better than the last.

I've been using my current format since May/June. It has been by far the most productive for me, as I am getting a better idea of what makes me tick. My current BB.com journal has been active since January. It can be found at this link: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1006795

I will post all four sessions of my most recent microcycle to give new readers a good idea of how my training looks at the moment.

Current Lifts
My lifts are still weak by weight lifting standards, but I've been making tremendous headway over the last few months. I see no reason to list them here since they will be posted in my workout logs for everyone to see. Although I've been lifting consistently for a year, I consider myself a begginer. I'm inching closer and close to what I would consider intermediate status for me.

Training Goals
One point I want to make very clear is that I consider myself a recreational lifter. I have no interest or intention of competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting. My goal is simply to become bigger, stronger, and to feel good and lead a healthy lifestyle. Also, while I consider lifting to be an important part of my life, it is not my entire life. I have no target bodyweight or bodyfat percentage I am shooting for. I just want to look in the mirror and be satisfied with what I see. I also try to avoid getting caught up in chasing numbers. I prefer to measure progress from workout to workout, and then see how I have improved over time. Most importantly, I want to continue to learn as much as I can. I am never satisfied with how much I know, thus I am always striving to improve my knowledge.

I'm sure there are other things I could discuss, but I'm tired of typing and most of you have probably stopped reading by now anyway. :)

I'll copy and paste my last week of workouts from my BB.com journal.

[Kiknskreem]

First.

[Misanthrope]

August 10

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Ten
Micro cycle 10: Session 1 of 4
Upper Body - Horizontal Emphasis

Decline Bench Press
5x185*
5x185*
5x175
10x150

Barbell Rows
6x150
6x150
6x140
10x120

Hammer Strength Incline Press
8x90 (per side)
8x90
8x80 (this would have been the better weight to use)

Lat Pulldowns
8x130
8x130
8x130

Cable Laterals
12x25
12x25

Tricep Pushdowns
10x80
10x80

NOTES
Very quality session today. I'm liking the changes I've made to the format; though my workout times are getting longer as the weight on the strength movements gets heavier.

Decline bench was great. I really didn't have to struggle much for either set of 185. A plate and a quarter was my goal on flat bench, but I'm happy to have reached it on decline. Six reps are going to be a grind next week, but after today I'm liking my chances. I thought I could try for at least 6 reps on the 175 backoff set, but that wasn't happening, lol. This shows me how important this set is. Had it been another set of 185, I wouldn't have hit all my reps.

Barbell rows were tough. I got all my reps but it was hard to keep form this time. I knew six reps weren't going to be easy, though. Next time I may bump the weight 5 lbs, but try for 2x4 and stay at 155 for an extra week.

I tried another new exercise in the form of cable laterals. These felt very smooth and I liked how I was able to keep tension on the muscle throughout the movement. I'm keeping these around for a while.

Ten weeks down. My training is still going very well. This is the longest sustained progress I have EVER experienced with my lifting. That's pretty damn satisfying.

[Misanthrope]

August 12

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Eleven
Micro cycle 10: Session 2 of 4
Lower Body Workout - Deadlift Emphasis

Warm-ups not listed

Deadlifts
3x285
3x285
3x285

Leg Press
12x4 plates+10 lbs (per side)
20x3 plates+10 lbs (per side) Got it this time

Barbell Curls
8x85
8x85
8x85

Pull-throughs
10x80
10x80

Donkey Calf Raises
12x450
12x450
12x450

NOTES
Good workout, but nothing outstanding. I did everything I was supposed to. I'm getting a little tired of barbell curls, so I think I'm going to switch back to the EZ bar for a while. They both hit my bicep pretty well. I don't like the Sunday workouts much, as I'm not able to get in until the afternoon. They'll probably stop once football season starts, unless there's no early game on a particular day.

[Misanthrope]

August 14

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Eleven
Micro cycle 10: Session 3 of 4
Upper Body - Vertical Emphasis

Overhead Press
4x120*
4x120*
5x110
12x85 (buuuuurn)

Hammer Grip Chin-ups (new grip)
10xBW
10xBW
10xBW
10xBW

Incline Dumbbell Press
7x60s*
7x60s*
10x50s
10x50s

Single Arm Cable Rows
12/12x60
12/12x60
12/12x60

Dips
3xBW
3xBW
3xBW
3xBW
3xBW

NOTES
Awesome workout today. Outstanding. I was drenched in sweat by the end of it. I've been feeling drained from the excessive heat lately so I wasn't sure what to expect. It is safe to say I surpassed my expectations for this session

Overheads - So I dd 2x6x115 last time, and I've been microloading my weight increases lately. This time, rather than microload the increase I decided to try a five lb jump with reduced reps, like I've been doing on my bigger lifts. The weight felt heavy, but I managed to get my target reps. The burn set was mind blowing. Not sure how the rep increases will go in the coming weeks, but I can always adjust if need be. I'm 15 lbs from 135 now. :)

Hammer chins - After using medium-close grip supine chins for several months, I decided it was time to change grips. I wasn't feeling chins for the last couple of weeks, so I thought a grip change could help with that. It had been many months since I used a hammer grip so I stuck with bodyweight sets to gauge where I was at. Very smooth for 4x10. These felt great for my back. Weight will be added next time.

Incline DB - Added a rep each for the heavy sets. The last burn set was insane.

Single arm cable rows - These felt great again. Between these and hammer chins, I'm expecting some quality work for my back.

Dips - Got 15 reps in this time. I'll try to add more reps next time. They felt a bit less awkward than last session but will still take some getting used to.

[Misanthrope]

August 16

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Eleven
Micro cycle 10: Session 4 of 4
Lower Body Workout - Squat Emphasis

Warm-ups not listed

Squats
6x235*
6x235*
6x225
6x215

Romanian Deadlifts
7x215*
7x215
7x215

Leg Extensions
10x120
10x120

Seated Hamstring Curls
10x120
10x120

Dumbbell Hammer Curls
8x40s
8x40s
8x35s

NOTES
Today's workout was great. Very punishing on my legs. The last squat reps at 235 were tough. Since it was my last session with 235, I increased the overall workload by raising one of my back-off sets to 225. It's time to bump the weight again; and I'm going for 245x4x2 next week.
Everything else felt good and went as planned. I'm a little suprised at the rate at which I seem to be improving with hammer curls. The next session, the last for the week, will be Saturday with the start of the new micro cycle.

[Misanthrope]

Today's workout

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Eleven
Micro cycle 11: Session 1 of 4
Upper Body - Horizontal Emphasis

Decline Bench Press
6x185*
6x185*
6x175
8x155

Barbell Rows
4x155*
4x155*
5x145
12x125

Hammer Strength Incline Press
8x80 (per side)
8x80
8x80

Lat Pulldowns
12x130
12x130
10x130

Cable Laterals
8x30
8x30

Tricep Pushdowns
12x80
12x80

NOTES
This was everything a great workout should be. It was demanding. It pushed me to my limits. I had to fight for the last reps. My chest and back were pumped to hell.

Decline bench was easily the highlight of the session. That first set of 185 was pretty tough, so I asked for a spotter on the second set. I cranked out five reps and knew I had the sixth in the bag. It was a matter of willpower at that point. I held the bar above me for a few moments and told my spotter I had one more. I sucked in some air and brought the bar down to my chest. It was a fight. My spotter was about to reach in to help (against my instructions) and I told him I had it. I got it. It felt damn good. I'm going for 190x4 next time.

Dropping down to four reps on rows for the five lb increase was a wise move. Those were definitely a challenge. We'll see how 2x5 goes next time. The burn set felt great. My lats were throbbing.
Another week in the books. This one ended on a very good note.

[Lifting N Tx]

'Bout time. :D

I must say that Kik is damn quick. Rhymes too, doesn't it?



Body fat: Yes



Best line in the whole intro. ;) I resemble that remark. Matt, last I recall, you were pretty much keeping weight relatively constant. Is this still the case? Any thoughts about that vs. doing controlled bulking and dieting cycles?

I've got to say that it helps seeing a bunch of workouts on one page. Following as many journals as I do it often takes too much research time for me to go back and look to see the trends in someone's workouts plus their overall routine.

[VikingMan]

Upper lowers FTW. Keep it coming man. (hey, at least I didn't call you bro).

[Kyle]

All I can say is you've made some outstanding progress in the time you've been training.

I'm impressed with your all around balance, by your numbers I don't see any noticeable imbalance's with your training and strength levels which in the long run is going to pay out a lot for you.

Kyle

[abarlament]

Matt how old are you?

[Kiknskreem]

Matt how old are you?

Post #1 amigo.

Hope you don't mind me fielding this one anthro!

[Misanthrope]

Best line in the whole intro. ;) I resemble that remark. Matt, last I recall, you were pretty much keeping weight relatively constant. Is this still the case? Any thoughts about that vs. doing controlled bulking and dieting cycles?
I am sloooooowly trying to trim down. That's all I'll say about that. :)

I've got to say that it helps seeing a bunch of workouts on one page. Following as many journals as I do it often takes too much research time for me to go back and look to see the trends in someone's workouts plus their overall routine.
For sure. That's why there are so many repeat questions in journals. If I'm interested in what a particular individual is doing, I try my best to keep up. Some people ask questions without even bothering to read. It doesn't happen too much in my BB.com journal, but I see it happen in some others over there.

Upper lowers FTW. Keep it coming man. (hey, at least I didn't call you bro).
Thanks, Vike. I appreciate the consideration. :)

[Misanthrope]

All I can say is you've made some outstanding progress in the time you've been training.

I'm impressed with your all around balance, by your numbers I don't see any noticeable imbalance's with your training and strength levels which in the long run is going to pay out a lot for you.

Kyle
Thanks, Kyle. The last couple months of my training have brought more consistent gains than the first six months of this year. All of my lifts are fairly proportional, as you pointed out. I do think my deadlift is quite a bit ahead of my squat at this point, though. I'm working on that. :)

Post #1 amigo.

Hope you don't mind me fielding this one anthro!
Not at all. Good lookin' out.

[Kyle]

Thanks, Kyle. The last couple months of my training have brought more consistent gains than the first six months of this year. All of my lifts are fairly proportional, as you pointed out. I do think my deadlift is quite a bit ahead of my squat at this point, though. I'm working on that. :)


Thats good, its amazing what an open mind can do for progress.

Kyle

[abarlament]

Post #1 amigo.

Hope you don't mind me fielding this one anthro!

Pfftt, who reads anymore...
http://bart.trendmill.nl/forum/rolleyes.jpg

[r_graz]

Glad to see you started a journal here Matt.

[MISSINGLINK]

Today's workout

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Eleven
Micro cycle 11: Session 1 of 4
Upper Body - Horizontal Emphasis

Decline Bench Press
6x185*
6x185*
6x175
8x155

Barbell Rows
4x155*
4x155*
5x145
12x125

Hammer Strength Incline Press
8x80 (per side)
8x80
8x80

Lat Pulldowns
12x130
12x130
10x130

Cable Laterals
8x30
8x30

Tricep Pushdowns
12x80
12x80

NOTES
This was everything a great workout should be. It was demanding. It pushed me to my limits. I had to fight for the last reps. My chest and back were pumped to hell.

Decline bench was easily the highlight of the session. That first set of 185 was pretty tough, so I asked for a spotter on the second set. I cranked out five reps and knew I had the sixth in the bag. It was a matter of willpower at that point. I held the bar above me for a few moments and told my spotter I had one more. I sucked in some air and brought the bar down to my chest. It was a fight. My spotter was about to reach in to help (against my instructions) and I told him I had it. I got it. It felt damn good. I'm going for 190x4 next time.

Dropping down to four reps on rows for the five lb increase was a wise move. Those were definitely a challenge. We'll see how 2x5 goes next time. The burn set felt great. My lats were throbbing.
Another week in the books. This one ended on a very good note.


Very strong decline benching and rows. I am going to incorporate some burn sets. You will get 190 no problem.

[r_graz]

So Matt, I take it you're finding the 2x4,5,6 approach more effective than the 3x3 strength format? Or similar...but different? ;)

Trying to decide which way to go next on my ME exercises.

[Misanthrope]

Very strong decline benching and rows. I am going to incorporate some burn sets. You will get 190 no problem.
Thanks, Link. The burn sets feel pretty good to me after going heavy with lower reps.

So Matt, I take it you're finding the 2x4,5,6 approach more effective than the 3x3 strength format? Or similar...but different? ;)

Not more effective, just different. In fact, I see the 3x3 format as the next logical step for me after stalling on a lift using the regular format. I plan on switching to it whenever I do inevitably stall on bench and squats. This time I plan on using two higher rep back-off sets after the heavy sets so I can still train the lift in the 5-8 rep range.

[Misanthrope]

I decided to take an extra rest day. I woke up this morning with a headache and felt run down, and it's lingered throughout the morning. Today was deadlifts and high rep leg presses, and it just didn't feel like a good day to push myself like that. I plan on working out tomorrow and hopefully feel better after two days off. I just hope I'm not getting sick. The girlfriend was sick last week. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[VikingMan]

Bummer. I know what you mean though. Gotta be there, mentally and physically, especially for a deadlift day. Your head not being there for just one set can cause you months of problems.

Good call.

[Misanthrope]

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Twelve
Micro cycle 11: Session 2 of 4
Lower Body Workout - Deadlift Emphasis

Warm-ups not listed

Deadlifts
2x295
2x295
2x295
2x295

Leg Press
Skipped - see notes

EZ-bar Curls
8x80
8x80
10x80

Seated Good Mornings
8x145
8x145

Seated Calf Raises
15x145
15x145
15x145

NOTES
I felt better today than yesterday, but I still felt a bit worn out. My body is just feeling more tired than usual. It was one of those workouts where everything felt heavy.

The first set of deadlifts sort of sucked. My form was a bit off and I wasn't using the amount of leg drive I prefer. I fixed it on subsequent sets and it went smoother. My hamstrings were pretty fatigued by the last set.

I started off on leg press with four plates +20 per side. This would have been a 10 lb increase from last week. The first rep felt unbelievably heavy (heavier than it should have felt). I also felt something funny in my left knee. I stripped a plate from each side and tried again, and my knee started feeling funny after just a few reps. Leg presses are definitely not worth fuxxoring my knee over, so I quit. The knee feels fine now, but something was definitely off with it then.

I'll see how I feel going in to my second upper body session Thursday to determine whether I'm in need of a break.

[Kyle]

What was the pain in your knee like?

Nice dls.

Kyle

[r_graz]

The first set of deadlifts sort of sucked. My form was a bit off and I wasn't using the amount of leg drive I prefer. I fixed it on subsequent sets and it went smoother. My hamstrings were pretty fatigued by the last set.
That's a nice amount of DL volume. I gotta figure out this "leg drive" thing vis-a-vis DL's - just can't seem to feel it there.

Yeah, don't f*ck up your knee on leg presses, not worth it. FWIW leg presses hurt my knees more than anything else, squats included.

[abarlament]

Just found out what your name meant.

Awesome.

[Misanthrope]

What was the pain in your knee like?
I wouldn't even say it was a pain, really. It was more of a warm, tingly sensation, and it went away shortly after I stopped.

That's a nice amount of DL volume. I gotta figure out this "leg drive" thing vis-a-vis DL's - just can't seem to feel it there.
The leg drive is all in the set-up for me. I hunker down and try to sit as deep as possible without compromising back angle. I also take a fairly narrow stance. It may just be how I'm built, as I have fairly long legs.

Yeah, don't f*ck up your knee on leg presses, not worth it. FWIW leg presses hurt my knees more than anything else, squats included.
They've never caused me trouble before. If the problem persists I guess I'll have to omit them from my training.

Just found out what your name meant.



Awesome.
:D

[MISSINGLINK]

Nice deadlifting Matt.

[VikingMan]

My body is just feeling more tired than usual. It was one of those workouts where everything felt heavy.
Time for a deload? You have been going hot and heavy for quite some time. Might be worth it even if you aren't totally over reaching.

[VikingMan]

Just found out what your name meant.

Awesome.
He's such a hater.

[Misanthrope]

Nice deadlifting Matt.
Thanks, Link. Tore another callous today, lol.

Time for a deload? You have been going hot and heavy for quite some time. Might be worth it even if you aren't totally over reaching.
Possibly. I may cut down or take some extra days off depending on how I feel. I'd like to wait and see how I feel for the next session, though.

[TheStender]

Hey Matt, I've followed your journals since basically the beginning, and I'm wondering how big of change you've seen in your physique? I don't know if it's been asked before, if it has, I missed it.

[r_graz]

Hey Matt, I've followed your journals since basically the beginning, and I'm wondering how big of change you've seen in your physique? I don't know if it's been asked before, if it has, I missed it.
Word has it he looks just like Brad Pitt now.

[Misanthrope]

Hey Matt, I've followed your journals since basically the beginning, and I'm wondering how big of change you've seen in your physique? I don't know if it's been asked before, if it has, I missed it.
I'm a lot bigger and muscular now than when I began the Starting Strength program last July. However, I also picked up a lot of fat in the process because I made the mistake of subscribing to the "eat everything in sight" philosophy. Not so good for my body type. One of these days soon I'll put some pics in my BB.com journal and perhaps on here too.

Word has it he looks just like Brad Pitt now.
Of course. I'm so glad I started that "how do I get the Brad Pitt look?" thread on BB.com.

[Kyle]

I'm a lot bigger and muscular now than when I began the Starting Strength program last July. However, I also picked up a lot of fat in the process because I made the mistake of subscribing to the "eat everything in sight" philosophy. Not so good for my body type. One of these days soon I'll put some pics in my BB.com journal and perhaps on here too.

Of course. I'm so glad I started that "how do I get the Brad Pitt look?" thread on BB.com.

Matt you thought about paying some attention to your diet?

Not sure if you know alot of people on here posting now are held in pretty high regards in the nutritional spectrum.

Kyle

[Misanthrope]

Matt you thought about paying some attention to your diet?

Not sure if you know alot of people on here posting now are held in pretty high regards in the nutritional spectrum.

Kyle
Yeah, I'm aware of the e-reputations of the people posting here now. I've done a lot of reading from different sources on the topic. It's simply a matter of choosing to make certain changes. I've already lost some weight over the last few weeks, and I'm sure I can lose some more.

Diet is one of those areas where there is so much dogma and conflicting information, I start to ignore everyone. It's also an area where I really do not wish for unsolicited advice. :) I will never compete in a physique contest, nor do I have any desire to be super lean. I think moderation is what is best for me right now.

[Misanthrope]

Matt's Upper/Lower, Week Twelve
Micro cycle 11: Session 3 of 4
Upper Body - Vertical Emphasis

Overhead Press
5x120*
5x120*
5x110
10x85

Hammer Grip Chin-ups
5x(BW+35)*
3x(BW+35) meh
4x(BW+25) bah
10xBW
10xBW

Incline Dumbbell Press
8x60s*
7x60s
8x55s
8x50s

Single Arm Cable Rows
8/8x70
8/8x70
8/8x70

Dips
4xBW
4xBW
4xBW
4xBW
4xBW
Total Reps: 20 (+5)

NOTES
This workout looked better than it felt, lol. I was dragging ass the entire time. Barely got the fifth rep on the back-off set for overheads, and lost two reps on the burn set.

Hammer chins were a bit disappointing. The first set of +35 was a lot tougher than I expected. It might have been due in part to the fatigue, but I doubt it made that much of a difference. After that set I didn't have much left in me for the subsequent sets. I should have just used two sets of 25.

Incline DB was undoubtedly the strongest lift of the session. I upped the total workload this time by moving the weight up on my third set to the 55s. I'm pretty confident about getting 2x8 with the 60s next time. Dips went well, and I'm still loving the single arm cable rows for my back.

While I was doing overheads, a couple of the Y employees were cleaning the mirror right next to the power rack and it didn't seem to matter that I was in the middle of working out there. I couldn't unrack the bar because her head was too close to the plates, so I just stepped back. When I did that, she walked into the rack and started cleaning as if I weren't even using it. She didn't even bother to say "excuse me" or "sorry for interrupting your workout." I thought that was pretty rude. I am paying to use their facility, after all.

I'm going to try my best to finish out the week on Saturday, and then possibly take some time off. I should have a better idea of what I want to do by the weekend.

[r_graz]

I like the fact that I can be the first one in after a workout here. No shot at that at bb.com

As I said in your bb.com journal, nice dipping :D

I'd say the evidence is mounting that it's time for a break, or at least a significant deload. You've been moving like a freight train for 12 weeks, that's bound to catch up with you. You've earned a break, and you know you're only going to come back stronger.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I'm aware of the e-reputations of the people posting here now. I've done a lot of reading from different sources on the topic. It's simply a matter of choosing to make certain changes. I've already lost some weight over the last few weeks, and I'm sure I can lose some more.

Diet is one of those areas where there is so much dogma and conflicting information, I start to ignore everyone. It's also an area where I really do not wish for unsolicited advice. :) I will never compete in a physique contest, nor do I have any desire to be super lean. I think moderation is what is best for me right now.

The best fatloss I ever had was when i was doing maintance and slightly below for awhile.

I was about what I'am now excess bodyfat, but over about 4 months I was 230 pounds with abs.

Kyle

[VikingMan]

I'd say the evidence is mounting that it's time for a break, or at least a significant deload. You've been moving like a freight train for 12 weeks, that's bound to catch up with you. You've earned a break, and you know you're only going to come back stronger.
*whistles innocently*

[Lifting N Tx]

Diet is one of those areas where there is so much dogma and conflicting information, I start to ignore everyone. It's also an area where I really do not wish for unsolicited advice. :) I will never compete in a physique contest, nor do I have any desire to be super lean. I think moderation is what is best for me right now.
A cmon, you gotta post your supps and your macros, Matt. We'll fix you right up. ;)


The best fatloss I ever had was when i was doing maintance and slightly below for awhile.

I was about what I'am now excess bodyfat, but over about 4 months I was 230 pounds with abs.

Kyle
Hmmm...I'm thinking you've got in one of your profiles something like 280-290 lbs. Unless you've gained a LOT of LBM since then this sounds like it could have involved loss of a fair amount of pounds.

If so, would "maintenance and slightly below" mean 2000 calories per day below? :D Or "slightly below" before doing an extra 2 hours per day of exercise?

[Kyle]

A cmon, you gotta post your supps and your macros, Matt. We'll fix you right up. ;)


Hmmm...I'm thinking you've got in one of your profiles something like 280-290 lbs. Unless you've gained a LOT of LBM since then this sounds like it could have involved loss of a fair amount of pounds.

If so, would "maintenance and slightly below" mean 2000 calories per day below? :D Or "slightly below" before doing an extra 2 hours per day of exercise?

That was sorta missleading the way i said that.

The way i sit now is how i was before i went to 230ish. Basically just adjusting my intake to maintance rather than the fatass eat everything mentality i had, did wonders for me.

Kyle

[Lifting N Tx]

Kyle, that's not the way to market your new diet and exercise book. You've gotta say something like "lose 50lbs in 2 weeks with no effort with our revolutionary new system". ;) Heck, I was about ready to throw out both Pendlay and McDonald and make you my new guru.

Do you think that you gained or lost LBM during that time?

[Kyle]

Kyle, that's not the way to market your new diet and exercise book. You've gotta say something like "lose 50lbs in 2 weeks with no effort with our revolutionary new system". ;) Heck, I was about ready to throw out both Pendlay and McDonald and make you my new guru.

Do you think that you gained or lost LBM during that time?

Yes I'm sure I gained a considerable amount of LBM in that time frame.

I actually put up a tiny snipit of my training in the Strength and Conditioning forum.. check it out.

Kyle

[Misanthrope]

I like the fact that I can be the first one in after a workout here. No shot at that at bb.com

As I said in your bb.com journal, nice dipping :D

I'd say the evidence is mounting that it's time for a break, or at least a significant deload. You've been moving like a freight train for 12 weeks, that's bound to catch up with you. You've earned a break, and you know you're only going to come back stronger.
Thanks, Ron. Yeah, it's time to slow down a bit and let my body catch up to all the momentum. I'm planning on finishing out this week on Saturday, and then taking some time off before starting fresh next Thursday. We'll see if that gives me enough of a break.

A cmon, you gotta post your supps and your macros, Matt. We'll fix you right up. ;)

I bet. ;)

[Misanthrope]

I put up a back pick in my BB.com journal, but apparently the file size is too large to put it here. Here's a link to the post over there:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=72100993&postcount=2628

[Misanthrope]

MJWs Upper/Lower, Week Thirteen
Micro cycle 11: Session 4 of 4
Lower Body Workout - Squat Emphasis

Warm-ups not listed

Squats
4x245*
4x245*
6x225
6x225

Romanian Deadlifts
8x215*
8x215
8x215

Leg Extensions
12x120
12x120

Seated Hamstring Curls
12x120
12x120

NOTES
Back after a brief hiatus from the gym. Tough workout today. 245 was hard. I'm not sure about five reps next time. It's going to be a grind, that's for sure. I was ready to puke after the RDLs. Got a good burn in my hamstrings. I don't know if it was cobwebs from taking time off, but I just didn't have the mental focus today. I even skipped hammer curls at the end just because I didn't feel like I had anything left in me. Interesting.

Hopefully next session will prove to be more mentally engaging.

[Kyle]

MJWs Upper/Lower, Week Thirteen
Micro cycle 11: Session 4 of 4
Lower Body Workout - Squat Emphasis

Warm-ups not listed

Squats
4x245*
4x245*
6x225
6x225

Romanian Deadlifts
8x215*
8x215
8x215

Leg Extensions
12x120
12x120

Seated Hamstring Curls
12x120
12x120

NOTES
Back after a brief hiatus from the gym. Tough workout today. 245 was hard. I'm not sure about five reps next time. It's going to be a grind, that's for sure. I was ready to puke after the RDLs. Got a good burn in my hamstrings. I don't know if it was cobwebs from taking time off, but I just didn't have the mental focus today. I even skipped hammer curls at the end just because I didn't feel like I had anything left in me. Interesting.

Hopefully next session will prove to be more mentally engaging.

It was probably just the time off from the gym that did it for you. You'll be back, nice squats.

Kyle

[TheStender]

Good workout despite the cobwebs.

[Lifting N Tx]

Good workout despite the cobwebs.

x2

Nice that you've had those squats moving up well recently, even though they're getting tough. If I'm not careful I'll be the only one left with sucky squats. :(

[VikingMan]

x2

Nice that you've had those squats moving up well recently, even though they're getting tough. If I'm not careful I'll be the only one left with sucky squats. :(
Na. Your squat is HUGE compaired to mine. *cries*

[r_graz]

x2
Nice that you've had those squats moving up well recently, even though they're getting tough. If I'm not careful I'll be the only one left with sucky squats. :(
No fear Steve, mine are dropping fast. Wave to me as you pass ;)

Nice squatting Matt.

[Misanthrope]

It was probably just the time off from the gym that did it for you. You'll be back, nice squats.

Kyle

Good workout despite the cobwebs.
Thanks, guys. I'm sure it was just cobwebs. This was a tough workout to jump into after taking time off.

[Misanthrope]

x2

Nice that you've had those squats moving up well recently, even though they're getting tough. If I'm not careful I'll be the only one left with sucky squats. :(

No fear Steve, mine are dropping fast. Wave to me as you pass ;)

Nice squatting Matt.
Thanks, guys. I doubt I'll be passing anyone on anything anytime soon. :)

[Misanthrope]

I will no longer be updating this journal; at least not for the time being. Hopefully the few of you that have followed won't mind going back to my BB.com journal.

[Misanthrope]

To those of you that know me on Bodybuilding.com and are wondering why I've been banned from that forum, the reason given to me was this:

"For making personal attacks on another member regarding rep points"

It isn't quite that simple. I voiced displeasure with the fact that BOLT, a 15 year old forum member with extremely questionable character, was given a huge boost in rep points and is allowed to continue to post on the forum. I called BOLT a liar, a fraud, and a trouble maker. All of these statements are true and verifiable. BOLT has committed numerous transgressions, some of them bordering on dangerous considering the nature of the advice he was giving. He is currently on his third user name there. For reasons I am unable to ascertain, he is continually given "second chances" no matter the egregiousness of his actions. I pointed out this fact, and was banned for it without warning.

It looks like I will need to revive this journal for a while so I can post my workouts here during my week-long ban. If someone could be so kind as to post a link to this in my BB.com journal so people will know what happened and can continue to follow my workouts, I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, if someone could put me in touch with RipStone, I would much appreciate that as well. Thanks.

Matt

[Lifting N Tx]

It looks like I will need to revive this journal for a while so I can post my workouts here during my week-long ban. If someone could be so kind as to post a link to this in my BB.com journal so people will know what happened and can continue to follow my workouts, I would greatly appreciate it.


Done and sent you a PM also. I'll check back later.

[sully]

Im sorry to hear about your ban, Matt. Its such BS.
Just when u thought BB.com couldn't get any worse...
It does.

[VikingMan]

Out of curiosity, do you know what mod banned you?

[Dave76]

Out of curiosity, do you know what mod banned you?

I'm guessing Forge. He deleted Matt's post and edited BOLT's post.

I've gotta say that Matt's post didn't look over the top to me. Maybe it deserved an infraction but certainly not a ban. I'm even iffy on the infraction thing. The only thing I can guess is that it was obviously a mod who repped BOLT and he took it a little personally when Matt complained.

[Misanthrope]

I'm not entirely sure which mod banned me, but logic suggests it was Forge. It is absolutely absurd that I was banned for those comments. Not only are they mild compared to what people get away with every day on there, everything I said was true and can be proven. I've never had any trouble with mods before, and this is the first time I've been "disciplined" for anything. At the very most I should have received a warning first, though I don't believe I did anything wrong. Trust me, this is more about him than it is about me. Anyone would have been banned for attacking BOLT.

The mods, or at least certain mods, are protecting BOLT. There is no doubt about this. It's been happening for a while. Why they are protecting him, I'm not sure. I have my suspicions based on public knowledge about this kid, but I can't prove anything. Nevertheless, it is wrong and a serious abuse of mod power. I'm in the process of trying to get to the bottom of things.

[sw1rmd85]

I'm not entirely sure which mod banned me, but logic suggests it was Forge. It is absolutely absurd that I was banned for those comments. Not only are they mild compared to what people get away with every day on there, everything I said was true and can be proven. I've never had any trouble with mods before, and this is the first time I've been "disciplined" for anything. At the very most I should have received a warning first, though I don't believe I did anything wrong. Trust me, this is more about him than it is about me. Anyone would have been banned for attacking BOLT.

The mods, or at least certain mods, are protecting BOLT. There is no doubt about this. It's been happening for a while. Why they are protecting him, I'm not sure. I have my suspicions based on public knowledge about this kid, but I can't prove anything. Nevertheless, it is wrong and a serious abuse of mod power. I'm in the process of trying to get to the bottom of things.

I'm sure they're protecting him because of that amazing chest FAQ he wrote; anyone who brings information like that to the table, deserves to be defended.

[Kickbax]

I'm not entirely sure which mod banned me, but logic suggests it was Forge. It is absolutely absurd that I was banned for those comments. Not only are they mild compared to what people get away with every day on there, everything I said was true and can be proven. I've never had any trouble with mods before, and this is the first time I've been "disciplined" for anything. At the very most I should have received a warning first, though I don't believe I did anything wrong. Trust me, this is more about him than it is about me. Anyone would have been banned for attacking BOLT.

The mods, or at least certain mods, are protecting BOLT. There is no doubt about this. It's been happening for a while. Why they are protecting him, I'm not sure. I have my suspicions based on public knowledge about this kid, but I can't prove anything. Nevertheless, it is wrong and a serious abuse of mod power. I'm in the process of trying to get to the bottom of things.He is related to someone high up in the chain of command, maybe even Mr. D

[Misanthrope]

He is related to someone high up in the chain of command, maybe even Mr. D
I've actually heard that one before. I have no idea if it is accurate.

[Misanthrope]

Upper Body Stuff

Military Press (strict form, heels together)
Weight: 95 lbs
Sets: 5
Reps: 5 across
Notes: Solid. Will increase by 2.5 next session.

Flat Dumbbell Press
Weight: 70 lb DBs
Sets: 3
Reps: 7-6-5
Notes: Increase on first set. Total reps remained the same. Flat DB works my chest like no other. I love it.

Chin-ups (neutral grip, palms facing)
Weight: BW+25
Sets: 3
Reps: 5 across
Notes: OK.

Dips
Weight: BW
Sets: 3
Reps: 6 across
Notes: Very good. Steady improvement over the last couple of sessions. Will continue to add bodyweight weight reps to sets across.

Comments
I'm really liking these short, basic workouts. This one was done in 45 minutes. I think this is exactly what I needed to get my head back in the game. I dropped the weight quite a bit for military press to work on strict form. I'll be doing a set of push presses on my other upper day to help with lockout power, as well as improve explosiveness.

The weather has FINALLY cooled down here. It's been in the 60s all day with only a few clouds. I live for days like these.

Hopefully my friends over at BB.com will get to see my workout. I miss you guys. :(

Some day I will break free from the chains of oppression and reign hell upon the evil-doers that wrongfully banished me! :mad:

By the way, what does everyone think of the posting format I used today? It's quite a bit different from how I normally do it.

[TheStender]

I was going to say something about the format. Looks good and easy to follow.

How long were your workouts before you came up with the non-plan plan?

And it's cooling off here too, high 80's/low 90's only.

[Dave76]

[SIZE=4]Hopefully my friends over at BB.com will get to see my workout. I miss you guys. :(

And bb.com still has its share of demanding n00bs with a sense of entitlement who need your insightful and thought provoking comments. ;)

I could sure use my "enforcer" back in the SS thread right now. A guy thinks he's clearly too advanced for SS and insists that I give him his new workout.

[Lifting N Tx]

I'm really liking these short, basic workouts. This one was done in 45 minutes. I think this is exactly what I needed to get my head back in the game.

The idea of fairly basic workouts has a growing appeal to me. The short part will depend in part on the volume that experience tells you is needed.



The weather has FINALLY cooled down here. It's been in the 60s all day with only a few clouds. I live for days like these.

We're expecting some cool weather in Houston in a month or two ... or three... :D



Some day I will break free from the chains of oppression and reign hell upon the evil-doers that wrongfully banished me! :mad:

I take it that the experience does not incline you to reconsider your user name? ;)



By the way, what does everyone think of the posting format I used today? It's quite a bit different from how I normally do it.
I'd say it's interesting, but a bit wordy. What I like is the brief comments about each lift. It's easier to read them there than down below in the general comments.

[t-p-c]

nice upper body stuff haha

why heels together?

[VikingMan]

The weather has FINALLY cooled down here. It's been in the 60s all day with only a few clouds. I live for days like these.
I SO understand what you mean. I'm finally needing a blanket at night. Damn I love cold weather.

Nice workout Matt. Back to the heavy.

[Misanthrope]

I was going to say something about the format. Looks good and easy to follow.
Cool. I sorta like it myself.

How long were your workouts before you came up with the non-plan plan?
It varied. Some of them dragged on for after an hour, which usually meant I was dragging ass. My stamina sucks.

And it's cooling off here too, high 80's/low 90's only.
Only, lol. I've decided I'm not a hot weather guy. It's funny, though, as kid I never really minded the extreme summers and winters we have here, but now I do nothing but bitch about them.

And bb.com still has its share of demanding n00bs with a sense of entitlement who need your insightful and thought provoking comments. ;)

I could sure use my "enforcer" back in the SS thread right now. A guy thinks he's clearly too advanced for SS and insists that I give him his new workout.
That's like dangling a fresh piece of meat in front of a dog behind a chain link fence. :(

I can actually read posts still. I just can't do anything else, like make posts, see profiles, access my PMs. I saw the SS thread a few minutes ago. I want to beat liftingbuddy with a lead pipe so badly, you have no idea.

[Misanthrope]

The idea of fairly basic workouts has a growing appeal to me. The short part will depend in part on the volume that experience tells you is needed.
It's so much more simple this way. I think rest times as I advance will lengthen workout times, but hopefully not so much that I feel like I'm doing marathons again. I purposely made my lower days such that there's only a couple of lifts, plus accessory work if I have time and feel like doing it.

I take it that the experience does not incline you to reconsider your user name? ;)
Ha. Not hardly. This matter isn't over, either. I was going to appeal my ban to the CEO, which it gives me the option of doing, but I decided against it for now considering who my beef was with. I'm going to first take it up with the mod that banned me when I get back.

I'd say it's interesting, but a bit wordy. What I like is the brief comments about each lift. It's easier to read them there than down below in the general comments.
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that it is a bit wordy, and it might be a little more cumbersome in instances where different reps and weight are used for a single exercise. The notes after each lift is definitely a keeper. It provides less clutter than a large narrative at the bottom.

why heels together?
Technically, heels together is what makes it a "military" press. I elected to do them this way simply for the added balance and core stability needed for execution. I might move my feet out to the standard press position later as the weight increases.

I SO understand what you mean. I'm finally needing a blanket at night. Damn I love cold weather.
It will probably warm back up again a few times before Halloween, but I think the 90-100 degree days are done, for the most part. It will be mostly in the 60-80 range up to Halloween before it cools off more. My favorite time of the year, for sure.

Nice workout Matt. Back to the heavy.
Thanks, Vike. :)

[MISSINGLINK]

Upper Body Stuff

Military Press (strict form, heels together)
Weight: 95 lbs
Sets: 5
Reps: 5 across
Notes: Solid. Will increase by 2.5 next session.

Flat Dumbbell Press
Weight: 70 lb DBs
Sets: 3
Reps: 7-6-5
Notes: Increase on first set. Total reps remained the same. Flat DB works my chest like no other. I love it.

Chin-ups (neutral grip, palms facing)
Weight: BW+25
Sets: 3
Reps: 5 across
Notes: OK.

Dips
Weight: BW
Sets: 3
Reps: 6 across
Notes: Very good. Steady improvement over the last couple of sessions. Will continue to add bodyweight weight reps to sets across.

Comments
I'm really liking these short, basic workouts. This one was done in 45 minutes. I think this is exactly what I needed to get my head back in the game. I dropped the weight quite a bit for military press to work on strict form. I'll be doing a set of push presses on my other upper day to help with lockout power, as well as improve explosiveness.

The weather has FINALLY cooled down here. It's been in the 60s all day with only a few clouds. I live for days like these.

Hopefully my friends over at BB.com will get to see my workout. I miss you guys. :(

Some day I will break free from the chains of oppression and reign hell upon the evil-doers that wrongfully banished me! :mad:

By the way, what does everyone think of the posting format I used today? It's quite a bit different from how I normally do it.


Solid workout Matthew. I like your new format for typing out workouts. Very defined, easy to read and no confusion. How long are you carrying the ban stick?

[TheStender]

I can actually read posts still. I just can't do anything else, like make posts, see profiles, access my PMs. I saw the SS thread a few minutes ago. I want to beat liftingbuddy with a lead pipe so badly, you have no idea.

I really wouldn't have a problem with all his questions (well, yes, I would actually), but then he goes and answers other questions in other threads....then two minutes later he'll ask a completely retarded question in the SS thread like "My wrist hurts, should I do a workout" then a few minutes later he's telling someone why he thinks their 4 day split wouldn't be optimal.

Also, RedShark has crossed the line as well. "Can't I just skip rope for 3 minutes instead of doing multi set warmups? It's warms your whole body..."

Can't wait to have you back. I miss waiting for the MJW flame.

[Misanthrope]

Solid workout Matthew. I like your new format for typing out workouts. Very defined, easy to read and no confusion. How long are you carrying the ban stick?
Thanks, Link. I'm going to toy around with the posting format a little more. The way I did it yesterday won't work as well when I have lifts that use different weight and reps.

My ban is supposedly until Friday at 4 p.m.

I really wouldn't have a problem with all his questions (well, yes, I would actually), but then he goes and answers other questions in other threads....then two minutes later he'll ask a completely retarded question in the SS thread like "My wrist hurts, should I do a workout" then a few minutes later he's telling someone why he thinks their 4 day split wouldn't be optimal.

Also, RedShark has crossed the line as well. "Can't I just skip rope for 3 minutes instead of doing multi set warmups? It's warms your whole body..."

Can't wait to have you back. I miss waiting for the MJW flame.
I've called liftingbuddy on his helping other people while asking the most novice questions imaginable. No surprise, he didn't see a problem with what he was doing. We negged him into the red, and somehow he got out of it pretty quickly. I encourage everyone to neg him on site.

[Misanthrope]

Lower Body Stuff

Squat
5x5
227.5 lbs

Notes: Solid, for the most part. Bar speed was pretty good for most sets. Slowed down a bit on the last set. Move up 2.5 lbs next week.

Hang Clean/Power Clean (practice)
Multiple sets of doubles and triples
Empty bar, 65 lbs, 95 lbs

Notes: A slight improvement over last week, but I still need a lot of work. Also practiced some jump shrugs. I wore myself out towards the end, so my heavier reps weren't as quality. I pulled one rep at 95 from the floor and drove the bar straight into my knee caps. Hurt like a bitch.

Accessory
Light ab and core work.

Comments
I came into the gym a little tired today. I thought I was going to get to sleep in this morning, but the asshole in the apartment above me kept waking me up earlier in the morning with his primitive stomping. Hate that bastard.

Tomorrow will be an off day. Looking for another decline bench PR on Friday, and maybe a pull on Saturday.

[sw1rmd85]

I've called liftingbuddy on his helping other people while asking the most novice questions imaginable. No surprise, he didn't see a problem with what he was doing. We negged him into the red, and somehow he got out of it pretty quickly. I encourage everyone to neg him on site.

I think he's overly fixated on the rep. system more so than simply trying to "help" people.

Nice workout btw.

[Misanthrope]

I think he's overly fixated on the rep. system more so than simply trying to "help" people.
Well, he's going to be disappointed when I get back.

[Dave76]

We negged him into the red, and somehow he got out of it pretty quickly. I encourage everyone to neg him on site.

Ok, I'll stop repping him. :o

Sorry, I don't know why but that kid makes me laugh. I think it's the youthful "deer in the headlights" innocence about him. FWIW, drunkenmaster is so far in the red now that I won't even try to help him.

[Tad_T]

why heels together?

Because that is how military press is done. With the heels together and the feet at a 45 degree angle as in standing at the position of attention. That is why there is no such thing as seated military press. <-- pet peeve :)

With the feet in any other position it is not a military press. It is an overhead press or just a press.

Nice work, Matt. The format looks cool.

[Misanthrope]

Ok, I'll stop repping him. :o

Sorry, I don't know why but that kid makes me laugh. I think it's the youthful "deer in the headlights" innocence about him.
It's the smiley face he uses with every post. It's a manipulation tactic meant to blindside the person with friendliness so they will want to like him. That way, it's easier for him to get what he wants.

With the feet in any other position it is not a military press. It is an overhead press or just a press.

Nice work, Matt. The format looks cool.
Exactly!

Thanks, for stopping by, Tad.

[sw1rmd85]

Ok, I'll stop repping him. :o

Sorry, I don't know why but that kid makes me laugh. I think it's the youthful "deer in the headlights" innocence about him. FWIW, drunkenmaster is so far in the red now that I won't even try to help him.

How come drunkenmaster got negged to death? Does he hand out advice too?

[sw1rmd85]

This might make you laugh about your boy liftingbuddy:

The last time he benched, he only got 4 reps up on all his sets, so this time he decides to do weighted dips and deadlifting BEFORE benching and only did 3 on his first set and stalled on his second set during the second rep.

And then, of course, he proceeds to hand out advice.

That's CLASSIC liftingbuddy.

[Misanthrope]

This might make you laugh about your boy liftingbuddy:

The last time he benched, he only got 4 reps up on all his sets, so this time he decides to do weighted dips and deadlifting BEFORE benching and only did 3 on his first set and stalled on his second set during the second rep.

And then, of course, he proceeds to hand out advice.

That's CLASSIC liftingbuddy.
What a moron. Report him to a mod. If I can be banned for telling the truth about someone, he can at least get an infraction for giving unqualified advice.

[Dave76]

That's CLASSIC liftingbuddy.

ROFL... See, I told you that he makes me laugh. ;)

[Knowles]

FWIW, drunkenmaster is so far in the red now that I won't even try to help him.

Bwahahahahahah! My mission is now complete...

[jwright715]

Ok, I'll stop repping him. :o

Sorry, I don't know why but that kid makes me laugh. I think it's the youthful "deer in the headlights" innocence about him. FWIW, drunkenmaster is so far in the red now that I won't even try to help him.

I havent been in the SS thread in awhile, but i thought drunkenmaster had shown some improvement, no?

[jwright715]

And about the ban thing..cant you appeal the ban to another mod, someone without there head up there ass, like Rip? Cause theres something real fishy going on with this Bolt kid, and the way in which you were reprimanded.

[Misanthrope]

And about the ban thing..cant you appeal the ban to another mod, someone without there head up there ass, like Rip? Cause theres something real fishy going on with this Bolt kid, and the way in which you were reprimanded.
You really can't contact anyone directly when you're banned because you don't have access to your PMs. In order to appeal the ban, I'd have to go over the head of the mod that did it. I had the option of emailing the BB.com CEO, but I decided against it. If it's true that BOLT has some kind of connection with people high up on the totem pole, I wasn't going to be doing myself any favors by going to them after what I said to BOLT. I would still look like the bad guy, even if I only told the truth.

As for RipStone, bringing him into the matter would have put him in a predicament of conflicting interests - our e-friendship, and his standing as a moderator. That wouldn't be fair of me to expect him to get involved in a matter that he himself really wouldn't be able to resolve anyway.

You're right, though. Something definitely smells rotten here, and this matter is far from over. It isn't just about me being banned for something stupid, it is about ethical behavior and the intregrity of the forum, which, last time I checked, represents a business and someone's livelihood. I'll go about it in my own way.

[Misanthrope]

Upper Body Stuff

Decline Bench Press
3x3
177.5 - 197.5(PR) - 187.5

2x8
155

Notes: Getting heavy. I'm glad I decided to microload my jumps. Going for the big 200 next time. Got a good pump from the two back-off sets.

Push Press
1x4
125

Notes: Missed the fifth rep. Not a big deal, but it surprised me a bit, given my success with overhead pressing over the last few months. My lockout strength may have been affected by the benching. I still need to work on technique to make this an explosive movement as it is intended to be.

Chin-ups (50 Rep Test, neutral grip)
15 - 15 - 10 - 10
Bodyweight

Notes: Took me only four sets to get 50 this time. :) Last time it took me five, and the last set consisted of 8 reps. On the downside, this reminded me of how much my stamina sucks. :( Not sure what I'll do with these next week. I'll have to either add reps, or try to get to 50 faster.

Dips
3x7
Bodyweight

Notes: I was pretty much toast stamina-wise after the chins, so these were a bit of a drag. Long rest times. Still an improvement across sets, though. All things considered, dips are coming along fairly well compared to a few months ago when I couldn't even do one.

Comments
Not bad, overall. I would have preferred 197.5 not feeling as heavy as it did, but I'll take it. I'm interested to see how far I can push it with the triples.

I plan on pulling tomorrow, if I'm feeling up to it. I've had a bit of a sore throat today, which for me is often a precursor to catching a cold. Hopefully that isn't the case.

[TheStender]

50 chin ups is awesome. I'm still working on getting one...

Still like the new format, I really like the notes for each workout. Gives a bit more to it.

Hopefully you'll outrun the cold, it's been going around here I think. I caught it last week, and my girlfriend had it this week.

[MISSINGLINK]

Solid workout Matt. Your chinning power continues to impress. When the banstick is lifted are you shooting right over to that other place?

[Misanthrope]

50 chin ups is awesome. I'm still working on getting one...

Still like the new format, I really like the notes for each workout. Gives a bit more to it.

Hopefully you'll outrun the cold, it's been going around here I think. I caught it last week, and my girlfriend had it this week.
Thanks, man. Yeah, I definitely don't want to be getting sick right now. The sore throat isn't going away, though, so we'll have to wait and see. :(

When the banstick is lifted are you shooting right over to that other place?
If I'm at the computer when it's lifted, perhaps.

[jwright715]

You really can't contact anyone directly when you're banned because you don't have access to your PMs. In order to appeal the ban, I'd have to go over the head of the mod that did it. I had the option of emailing the BB.com CEO, but I decided against it. If it's true that BOLT has some kind of connection with people high up on the totem pole, I wasn't going to be doing myself any favors by going to them after what I said to BOLT. I would still look like the bad guy, even if I only told the truth.

As for RipStone, bringing him into the matter would have put him in a predicament of conflicting interests - our e-friendship, and his standing as a moderator. That wouldn't be fair of me to expect him to get involved in a matter that he himself really wouldn't be able to resolve anyway.

You're right, though. Something definitely smells rotten here, and this matter is far from over. It isn't just about me being banned for something stupid, it is about ethical behavior and the intregrity of the forum, which, last time I checked, represents a business and someone's livelihood. I'll go about it in my own way.

Well, for what its worth, id take a hit from the ban stick in your honor if it helped get to the bottom of this.

But anyways, awesome workout. Very impressive chinning.

[Dave76]

You're right, though. Something definitely smells rotten here...

Yes, it does smell rotten. BOLT is banned immediately for his comments. You weren't. Logic tells me that a mod read everything and didn't think your comments were bannable or even worthy of an infraction.

A day and a half later, you're banned, your comments are deleted, and BOLT's comments are deleted. It's pretty obvious to me that BOLT complained to someone and a mod was ordered to take further action.

BOLT obviously has connections somewhere. I've seen his posts where he says that "Ryan" told him something. Ryan DeLuca doesn't talk directly to many of us. I strongly suspect that BOLT is somehow related to Ryan. If not a blood relationship, they're family friends or something.

One would think that a 15 yr old kid claiming to be working on a PhD and offering advice from that standpoint would receive a pema ban. People could actually get hurt by following his advice thinking that they were being advised by a true expert. The fact that that the perma ban didn't happen speaks volumes.

If Ryan wants to protect this kid, that's his business. The best advice I can give you is to stay away from BOLT. It's not fair but life isn't always fair.

[Misanthrope]

Dave, your comments are spot on. I find it a little disturbing that this sort of thing is allowed to take place. Nobody seems to really take it too seriously. Maybe because it's the Internet, and maybe because it's just a silly little forum about weightlifting, but every day thousands of people read and follow advice given to them by the members of that forum. I take it seriously that a person might use information given by me. The ethical considerations of allowing a member who has consistently proven himself fraudulent to roam free are startling, when you take in consideration the fact that BB.com is a legit business and most likely the livelihood of the CEO.

Like I said, this matter isn't over.

[Misanthrope]

So far, I am being stonewalled in my efforts to get to the bottom of my banning.

[Misanthrope]

Lower Body Stuff

Front Squat
5x3
125

Notes: Very solid. I'm getting used to the clean grip. No wrist pain, though I'm sure my shoulders will be a little bruised again. Will increase by at least 5 lbs next time.

Deadlift
1x5
295 (PR)

Notes: This is sort of a bullshit PR in the sense that it's only a record because I haven't pulled a set of 5 in a long time. It was pretty much a given; though, I didn't want to push it too hard today being sick. Grip strength has improved tremendously. I pulled that set with no chalk this time.

Comments
Short workout today. No accessory work. Almost didn't go today since I'm fighting a cold. Coughing up nasty shit and all that. However, I'm really not feeling that bad, so I thought what the hell. Next two days will be off. I'll only be able to work out three days next week, as I'll be out of town for a big part of next weekend.

[Misanthrope]

I don't know if I'll be ready to work out tomorrow or not. I've been sick all weekend. I'm feeling better today (was awful yesterday), but I don't know if I'll be ready to go tomorrow. If not, it looks like I'll only be able to work out two days this week since I'm going out of town for the weekend. Oh well.

[Lifting N Tx]

Sometimes I think a minor illness can be the body's way of telling us that we need a break. Better to get well and then have a decent workout than to workout when you shouldn't and make yourself sick.

[Misanthrope]

Sometimes I think a minor illness can be the body's way of telling us that we need a break. Better to get well and then have a decent workout than to workout when you shouldn't and make yourself sick.
My thinking exactly. I may take the rest of the week off if I'm not ready by tomorrow.

[Dredge]

Well, I guess I got what I set out to do for the day ;)

[Misanthrope]

Well, I guess I got what I set out to do for the day ;)
:)

I run the show in here. :cool:

[Kyle]

That sucks that you got the ban stick at bb.com.

I can still rember when BOLT would troll me about a year or so ago and repost all my information as 'His Stuff'. Him and about 400,000 other people there are worthless fucks.

Good workouts man.

Kyle

[Misanthrope]

Upper

Military Press (strict form, heels together)
5x5
97.5 lbs

Notes: OK.

Flat Dumbbell Press
8-5-4
70 lbs

Notes: The last two sets were weak. My energy was shot at this point.

Chin-ups (neutral grip)
1x4
BW+25 lbs

Fuck it. I was done.

Comments
My first workout in nine days after being sick. The air conditioner at the gym wasn't working, which really made things difficult. I was drenched in sweat and coughing, and generally not feeling well. By the time I got to chins I just had nothing left. It was to be expected that my first workout after being sick wouldn't be stellar, but this was really disappointing. I was looking forward to getting back into action today, and my workout sucked.

Not sure if I'll do my squat workout tomorrow, or wait. Guess we'll have to see.

[r_graz]

2 things:

- You've already seen that your first workout or two after a layoff isn't stellar. I remember that from your journal previously.

- You've been sick, and that doesn't make for great "deload time".

I know it sucks to go back in after time off and feel like shit. I may have some of that coming to me next Monday ;) But hang in there.

[Misanthrope]

2 things:

- You've already seen that your first workout or two after a layoff isn't stellar. I remember that from your journal previously.

- You've been sick, and that doesn't make for great "deload time".

I know it sucks to go back in after time off and feel like shit. I may have some of that coming to me next Monday ;) But hang in there.
Yeah, you're right. A crappy workout is a letdown no matter what, though. Hopefully next session will run more smoothly.

[Misanthrope]

Lower

Squat
5x5
230 lbs

Notes: Good lord. I hate 5x5 squats, lol. The first few sets were solid. The last was a battle of keeping my mind from giving out before my body. A good deal of mental toughness is required to make it through the last couple of sets. Will increase another 2.5 lbs next week.

Power Clean
6x3
95 lbs

Notes: Still rough, but much, much improved over last time. I decided today to stop practicing from the hang position, so I elevated the bar to the same height as if the 45s were on there. The movement went much smoother for me because I could generate so much more power pulling from the floor. More and more reps were being racked with better efficiency. I also felt a nice little burn in my hamstrings. Does anyone else get that? More comments are included below.

Comments
Decided to call it a day after cleans and skip any accessory stuff. The workout was running fairly long anyway. Overall, this session felt much better than yesterday.

A couple more notes about the power clean. After pulling a few reps from the floor today, I think I realized why my timing had been so off before. Whenever I was pulling with a lot of force, I caught myself being hesitant about what to do once I got the bar to my thigh. This hesitation in turn caused me to be afraid to use "too much" force off the floor, which slowed down the movement and obviously took away a lot of the power. That split second of hesitation was affecting my timing on the second pull. To combat this, I gave myself a little jump command once I got the bar in position. It seemed to make a difference, because it allowed me to yank the bar up quickly without worrying what to do next. I guess you could say it came more natural. I still need a lot of work on the power clean, but today's performance was promising.

Off day tomorrow. Going for a PR on decline bench next session.

[HomeYield]

I don't know if you have access to one but a video camera would make critiquing powercleans a whole lot easier. It's such a technical lift that even though you can feel this and see certain things in the mirror you can't capture on your own what a video camera could from the side.

Good luck on the decline bench PR next time!

[r_graz]

Looks like things are looking up :cool:

[Misanthrope]

I don't know if you have access to one but a video camera would make critiquing powercleans a whole lot easier. It's such a technical lift that even though you can feel this and see certain things in the mirror you can't capture on your own what a video camera could from the side.

Good luck on the decline bench PR next time!
Thanks for stopping in, man. Yeah, it would be interesting to analyze my lifts on a video. I really don't have anything to take a video with, though. Hopefully that will change if I'm able to get a home gym together next summer and can have my girlfriend film me.

Looks like things are looking up :cool:
:cool:

[Lifting N Tx]

Looks like a pretty good session for still getting back in the swing of things. Those 5x5 squats are no joke. I'm using about 40lbs less and they can be a grind.

I'm with you on the "need a video camera but the budget doesn't currently allow it"...

My only videos are from the limited video function of my cheap electronic camera, when I can get one of my kids to take one. Eventually I'll get a decent one.

[Misanthrope]

Looks like a pretty good session for still getting back in the swing of things. Those 5x5 squats are no joke. I'm using about 40lbs less and they can be a grind.

I'm with you on the "need a video camera but the budget doesn't currently allow it"...

My only videos are from the limited video function of my cheap electronic camera, when I can get one of my kids to take one. Eventually I'll get a decent one.
Thanks, Steve. Hopefully I'll be able to continue to eek out progression on my 5x5 squatting since I'm only making 2.5 lb increases. I think they're a little easier to wrap my head around. I mean, they're just tiny little plates, right? :)

My girlfriend has a digital camera that I bought for her last Christmas. She treasures it. It isn't mine to take, and I'm not going to ask her for it. I have no interest in getting one for myself. Maybe when we get our house in the Spring and I can put together a home gym, I'll have her take some vids of me then.

[Misanthrope]

Upper

Decline Bench Press
3x3
180 - 200(PR) - 190

Notes: Got the 200. I guess I should be more excited about breaking 200 than I am, but now I just think it's pathetic that it took me so long to get there. Whatever. Barely got the last rep. Will try a 2.5 lb increase.

Chin-ups (neutral grip)
3 sets: 7-6-5
BW+15

Notes: These haven't been going so well lately. Dropping the weight helped a bit, but I'm surprised that adding even a little more weight would feel so tough considering how many reps I can do at bodyweight. Oh well. Keep grinding, I guess.

Dips
3x8
BW

Notes: Good stuff. These are improving quickly. I still want to add some more reps before I try adding weight, though.

Accessory
Barbell Curls

Comments
Meh. I should have put this workout off until tomorrow. I'm noticing that I seem to have much better lower body sessions than uppper; thus, I better enjoy the lower body sessions.

Normally this session would have included a set of push presses, but I decided to hold off on those until I read the updated "Starting Strength".

Tomorrow will most likely be an off day. I still have pretty bad soreness in my legs from Tuesday. My next scheduled session is Saturday.

[t-p-c]

Congrats on 200 man, 2 plates before you know it.

Dips have improved a lot too. What grip width do you use on these? I like to switch it up using narrow and wider grips.

Is your current plan with squats to do 5x5 with a 1x week frequency?

[r_graz]

Meh. I should have put this workout off until tomorrow. I'm noticing that I seem to have much better lower body sessions than uppper; thus, I better enjoy the lower body sessions.

Same here. I seem to either have a good run of lower body or a good run of upper body, but never at the same time.

Very nice work on the bench, regardless of whether you were excited about it or not ;)

Which reminds me, I have to figure out what the f*ck I'm doing before I'm supposed to start lifting again next week...

[Misanthrope]

Lower

Front Squat
5x3
130

Notes: I'm getting good at these. Grip held up wonderfully. The weight was challenging on the last few sets, but I'm confident I'll be able to bump it up to 135 next time.

Deadlift
1x1
345 (PR)

Notes: Nailed it. My 1RM was estimated to be around 345, so I wanted to test it today. It felt great. It wasn't an easy pull and was especially difficult at my sticking point right below the knee. I let out a grunt and cleared it, and it shot the rest of the way up. I held it in lockout a little longer just for the hell of it. :) More comments below.

Accessory
45 degree back extensions
Machine donkey calf raise
Seated Calf raise

Notes: Blasted the calves today since I haven't done much work on them lately. Instead of worrying about how many reps I had, I just got as many slow reps as I could with little rest time between sets.

Comments
Excellent session. That deadlift was awesome. It was the heaviest weight I've ever picked up in my life, but my form held solid. Absolutely no back irritation at all right now. This was a very encouraging lift because I'd say I had another 5-10 lbs in me. This means 365 is not far away. I consider that a stepping stone to four plates. If I can keep up this pace, I should be able to reach my goal of four plates next summer. I won't pull another single for a while, but when I do, I expect to be able to nail another 10 lbs to today.

I saw a guy doing snatches and overhead squats today. He was an older guy, about 40. I talked to him for a little while and told him that I've never seen anyone do stuff like that at our gym. He said he used to do strongman stuff when he was younger. He invited me to join in, but this was after I had already done front squats an deads, so I politely declined. It was pretty cool to watch, though.

I'm very amped up after today's work. The lower sessions have felt so much better than the upper.

[Lifting N Tx]

Nice job on the PR, Matt. Seems like the break did you good.


I'm very amped up after today's work. The lower sessions have felt so much better than the upper.

I'm searching for a reason for this, but I'd be just making something up if I said that I had any clue. Care to elaborate on this comment? Is it just that you're more satisfied by the lower since you can handle more impressive poundages, or is there more to it?

[Misanthrope]

Nice job on the PR, Matt. Seems like the break did you good.



I'm searching for a reason for this, but I'd be just making something up if I said that I had any clue. Care to elaborate on this comment? Is it just that you're more satisfied by the lower since you can handle more impressive poundages, or is there more to it?
Thanks, Steve.

I really don't know why the lower sessions have gone so much better than the upper. It isn't like I've been doing poorly on the upper sessions. They just feel more sluggish and uninspired. That's about the best way I can explain it. Whatever the reason, it has led me to toy with the possibility of going back to full body. I'm not sure if I really want to do that, though.

Any thoughts?

[Lifting N Tx]

I think that a clear focus on improving a few major compounds helps my motivation. However, then one faces the challenge of both having a plan and being convinced that it's the right one.

I'm sort of evaluating that myself, and have been rereading some of Practical Programming and have also contemplated possibly doing full body myself. I'm still thinking it over.

[Misanthrope]

I'm sort of evaluating that myself, and have been rereading some of Practical Programming and have also contemplated possibly doing full body myself. I'm still thinking it over.
I just re-read the Texas Method section of PP last night. Looks like we're on the same wavelength right now.

If I did do a full body plan, which I still may not, this is what I expect it would look like:

Workout 1
Squats: 5x5
Flat DB bench: 3 sets of 6-12 (move up in weight when 12 is reached)
Power cleans: 6x3
Dips: 3 sets
Ab work if desired

Workout 2
Front squat: 3x3
Press: 5x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets
Back extensions: 2 sets
Barbell curls if desired

Workout 3
Squat: 1x3-5, or speed sets of 10x2
Decline bench press: 3x3
or 3x2
or 3x1 (all using 90-100-95 format)
Deadlift: 1x1-5, or possibly speed sets of 15x1
Tricep isolation: 3 sets
Calf work

I may decide just to stay with my upper/lower, or I may give this a shot to see if I would even like it. Sometimes it's better just to try something new and decide whether to take or leave it, rather than continue to wonder if there's something I would enjoy more.

[t-p-c]

I like it, but no rowage?

[daYDreAmErX]

I like it, but no rowage?

Exactly my thought. I'd try to throw in some pendlay rows maybe on day 2 instead of the weighted hypers...

[Misanthrope]

I like it, but no rowage?

Exactly my thought. I'd try to throw in some pendlay rows maybe on day 2 instead of the weighted hypers...
No.

:)

[daYDreAmErX]

No.

:)

Is there any specific reason for that ? :o

[Misanthrope]

Is there any specific reason for that ? :o
I just don't care for them enough to fit them in. I'm not doing them with my current format, either. As far as back exercises go, I've had far better results with other row variants compared to the 90 degree row from the floor. I may decide to work them back in later as a pull, but for now I'd rather devote my time and energy to more effective stuff..

Besides, I've been rowing for a year and a half. I'd say I'm pretty well qualified at this point to determine what to include in my own workout plan. ;)

[daYDreAmErX]

Besides, I've been rowing for a year and a half. I'd say I'm pretty well qualified at this point to determine what to include in my own workout plan. ;)

Wasn't attacking you in any ways... Just sayin'

[Misanthrope]

Wasn't attacking you in any ways... Just sayin'
I didn't think you were. Just 'splainin my rationale. :)

[jked4life]

Sub'd until you ban me:p


Now, I'm gonna go back and read the whole thing so I have something constructive to say, rather than "Nice lifts man" :cool:

lol, I never knew your name was Matt.

Me too. When my boy is born in december, he's gonna be Matt Jr.:)

[jked4life]

Interesting read.

I'm glad to see you continue to progress. Slow but sure. As kyle said, you have a very balanced lifting base. All of your lifts are about at the same level, which is definitely a plus.

As for overall strength, you'll get there.



For the whole BOLT situation, he's a douche. It makes sense that he's related to the big guy. The only thing that doesn't make sense is if he is, why the hell does he post things about smoking weed and saying he's high and stuff. I'd be pissed if a relative of mine was doing that and lay the smack down.

[Misanthrope]

Welcome aboard, Jked. This journal doesn't give the same kind of comprehensive overview of my training history the way my BB.com journal does. It should give you a pretty good idea of where I'm at, though. I spent three months on a really good upper/lower split working in multiple rep ranges. I had great results, but I also burned out on it after a while. I decided to buckle down and really concentrate on improving my strength for awhile. That's where I'm at right now. It feels good to just sort of wing it without worrying about getting in a ton of volume per bodypart.

[jked4life]

Welcome aboard, Jked. This journal doesn't give the same kind of comprehensive overview of my training history the way my BB.com journal does. It should give you a pretty good idea of where I'm at, though. I spent three months on a really good upper/lower split working in multiple rep ranges. I had great results, but I also burned out on it after a while. I decided to buckle down and really concentrate on improving my strength for awhile. That's where I'm at right now. It feels good to just sort of wing it without worrying about getting in a ton of volume per bodypart.

I really like the Upper/Lower split.

If you're burning out on it, I'd suggest trying something different.


I like the following splits:

Push/Pull/Legs - 3 days a week
Back/tricpes, Chest and biceps, shoulders and legs- 3 days a week
Push + biceps + 1 shoulder iso, Pull + triceps + 1 shoulder iso, Legs + 1 shoulder iso.- 3 days a week.


Stick to the compounds as a base and add some iso work in there as much as you can. Scaling back to 3 days a week might not be a bad idea. As I've gotten more advanced, I've scaled back my workouts from 5 a week all the way back to 3 times a week. I've realized when you train intensely and efficiently, you really don't need anymore.


I'm really not a fan of full body splits at all, and I hate 5x5. Just my own personal biases here. If I were you, I'd go with one of the splits that I had above

[Misanthrope]

I really like the Upper/Lower split.

If you're burning out on it, I'd suggest trying something different.


I like the following splits:

Push/Pull/Legs - 3 days a week
Back/tricpes, Chest and biceps, shoulders and legs- 3 days a week
Push + biceps + 1 shoulder iso, Pull + triceps + 1 shoulder iso, Legs + 1 shoulder iso.- 3 days a week.


Stick to the compounds as a base and add some iso work in there as much as you can. Scaling back to 3 days a week might not be a bad idea. As I've gotten more advanced, I've scaled back my workouts from 5 a week all the way back to 3 times a week. I've realized when you train intensely and efficiently, you really don't need anymore.


I'm really not a fan of full body splits at all, and I hate 5x5. Just my own personal biases here. If I were you, I'd go with one of the splits that I had above
Actually, I stopped the plan I burned out on several weeks ago. It's not that I didn't like it, it was just that I wasn't enjoying going to the gym. A lot of personal life stress was involved in that. The plan I'm doing now is an upper/lower and it's loosely formatted and strength based. I enjoy it more, but am strongly considering moving back to full body for a while because I'm enjoying the lower body work a lot more than the upper. The other stuff doesn't interest me as much right now.

I think I'm in a pretty good position to be able to set up my training based around my goals and what I'm interested in at the moment. I've had a variety of experiences over the last year and a half, and I've gotten pretty good at pegging what I do and don't like. I wouldn't be going forward with any of this if I haven't had personal experience that tells me I'm making the right move. Long term, I'm thinking of actually rotating full body or upper lower strength based formats along with body part splits. That's a ways off, though. I appreciate the suggestions.

[jked4life]

Actually, I stopped the plan I burned out on several weeks ago. It's not that I didn't like it, it was just that I wasn't enjoying going to the gym. A lot of personal life stress was involved in that. The plan I'm doing now is an upper/lower and it's loosely formatted and strength based. I enjoy it more, but am strongly considering moving back to full body for a while because I'm enjoying the lower body work a lot more than the upper. The other stuff doesn't interest me as much right now.

I think I'm in a pretty good position to be able to set up my training based around my goals and what I'm interested in at the moment. Long term, I'm thinking of actually rotating full body or upper lower strength based formats along with body part splits. That's a ways off, though. I appreciate the suggestions.

I've never been a fan of cookie cutter programs. I'm glad to see you are thinking for yourself. I like to look at different programs and pull things I like from them and borrow it.

In the end, once you have some lifting experience and a knowledge base, you should be creating your own splits. I'd have to say you are probably there already.

Long term, you need to enjoy your workouts. If you hate your split, there's no point, even if you are making great gains. I'm glad you are switching it up and thinking about what YOU WANT TO DO IN THE GYM, rather than what the parrots tell you is going to give you teh hyooge gunz.

Besides, given your goals, having fun lifting should be priority number one.

[Misanthrope]

I've never been a fan of cookie cutter programs. I'm glad to see you are thinking for yourself. I like to look at different programs and pull things I like from them and borrow it.

In the end, once you have some lifting experience and a knowledge base, you should be creating your own splits. I'd have to say you are probably there already.

Long term, you need to enjoy your workouts. If you hate your split, there's no point, even if you are making great gains. I'm glad you are switching it up and thinking about what YOU WANT TO DO IN THE GYM, rather than what the parrots tell you is going to give you teh hyooge gunz.

Besides, given your goals, having fun lifting should be priority number one.
Yeah, I haven't followed a cookie cutter since the beginning of the year. It's been all me ever since, for better or worse. Over the months I've slowly but surely learned about myself. I've found a lot of stuff that works, a lot that hasn't, and some that I could take or leave. I look at it as an educational experience, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Sometimes I like trying things just for the hell of it. Even if it bombs, I will have learned something from it, and can pass that on to someone else in a similar situation.

I'm in a pretty good place right now. I have a great handle on my training, and a pretty good idea of where I want to take things. At this point, I think the majority of my decisions will be for the better. My training isn't going to be as hit or miss as it was last spring.

[Lifting N Tx]

I just re-read the Texas Method section of PP last night. Looks like we're on the same wavelength right now.

If I did do a full body plan, which I still may not, this is what I expect it would look like:

Workout 1
Squats: 5x5
Flat DB bench: 3 sets of 6-12 (move up in weight when 12 is reached)
Power cleans: 6x3
Dips: 3 sets
Ab work if desired

Workout 2
Front squat: 3x3
Press: 5x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets
Back extensions: 2 sets
Barbell curls if desired

Workout 3
Squat: 1x3-5, or speed sets of 10x2
Decline bench press: 3x3
or 3x2
or 3x1 (all using 90-100-95 format)
Deadlift: 1x1-5, or possibly speed sets of 15x1
Tricep isolation: 3 sets
Calf work

I may decide just to stay with my upper/lower, or I may give this a shot to see if I would even like it. Sometimes it's better just to try something new and decide whether to take or leave it, rather than continue to wonder if there's something I would enjoy more.

Generally looks good. I think I'd add chins also to WO 3, drop the curls in WO 2 and move the triceps work from WO 3 to WO 2. Chins 2x per week would make up for dropping the curls (my bis are worked reasonably well by them), and for me cleans and deads don't do that much for my lats. Just my perspective.

I'm still trying to get my training as dialed in as yours. Doing 5x5 seems to accumulate fatigue over the weeks, especially in bench where I can use fairly decent weights. I'd like to find a scheme that works better for me as weekly periodization, which I ought to be able to as an intermediate. I could adjusting TM by dropping 5x5 for 3 sets of 5 but I'm not sure if I'd get enough effect from the "volume" workout. At the moment I'm leaning toward something similar to the Advanced Starting Strength (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=76422573#post76422573) (4 day split) that Dave posted.

What I've been pondering is that Rip presents the TM as being for intermediate lifters with fatigue being built and dissipated over a weekly time frame. Madcow's "advanced" 5x5 is explicitly dual factor, with not a lot more work..a few more sub-max or ramping sets on Weds and Fri. The difference may be the Madcow has DLs at 5x5, and I don't think that most would do that if using a TM setup for squats. In any case, in doing somewhat less than a TM workload I can't fully recover on a weekly basis, at least for upper body horizontal pressing.

Anyway, as always I'll be interested in following along whatever you try.

[Misanthrope]

Generally looks good. I think I'd add chins also to WO 3, drop the curls in WO 2 and move the triceps work from WO 3 to WO 2. Chins 2x per week would make up for dropping the curls (my bis are worked reasonably well by them), and for me cleans and deads don't do that much for my lats. Just my perspective.
Thanks for the suggestions. I can see why you would suggest doing chins twice, and normally, I would. However, if I do decide to try the full body workout, I'm not as concerned as to whether a particular muscle group is being hit "enough". In fact, I'm not too entirely concerned about building a lot of muscle right now. I've been losing weight and eating at a caloric deficit most days of week. I'm also not doing it in a very scientific matter; I'm simply eating less. As long as my strength keeps going up, as it has been, I am content. Once I can get down to an acceptable weight, I'll worry more about putting on muscle again.

Also, I'm not of the "chins for biceps" school of thought, so the curls would defintely stay. :)

I still haven't decided whether I even want to do it or not.

I'm still trying to get my training as dialed in as yours. Doing 5x5 seems to accumulate fatigue over the weeks, especially in bench where I can use fairly decent weights. I'd like to find a scheme that works better for me as weekly periodization, which I ought to be able to as an intermediate. I could adjusting TM by dropping 5x5 for 3 sets of 5 but I'm not sure if I'd get enough effect from the "volume" workout. At the moment I'm leaning toward something similar to the Advanced Starting Strength (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=76422573#post76422573) (4 day split) that Dave posted.
I'm currently using a format borrowed heavily from the upper/lower that Rip has Dave using. I made some changes to suit my preferences, but the general idea is the same. As for 5x5 as a set/rep scheme, I don't think a person with decent strength can expect to use 5x5 indefinitely on any particular lift. There has to be a taper at some point. Also, I think a more "advanced" intermediate lifter might need to give more consideration to planned progression if his emphasis is on strength. That's what the advanced 5x5 is all about. In PP, Rip describes the Texas Method as the first form of simple periodization after the novice stuff doesn't work anymore. That's a far cry from the advanced 5x5. More on that in my reply below.

What I've been pondering is that Rip presents the TM as being for intermediate lifters with fatigue being built and dissipated over a weekly time frame. Madcow's "advanced" 5x5 is explicitly dual factor, with not a lot more work..a few more sub-max or ramping sets on Weds and Fri. The difference may be the Madcow has DLs at 5x5, and I don't think that most would do that if using a TM setup for squats. In any case, in doing somewhat less than a TM workload I can't fully recover on a weekly basis, at least for upper body horizontal pressing.
I see the comparisons between the TM and advanced 5x5, and I don't think the two are at all much alike. I think people see that 5x5 sets across are used (or can be used, in TM's case), so they note the similarities without really understanding the differences. In my opinion, the differences are pretty important.

There is a major increase in workload for the deadlift with the advanced 5x5, which is likely to be the most taxing on the CNS of the lifts involved here. Deadlifting volume is still pretty low on the Texas Method because we're operating under the assumption that the trainee is at a level where low volume is still enough to trigger an adaptation. If it isn't, then more volume needs to be used which is likely to going to mean the deadlift should be performed less frequently, or, we need to manipulate the programming for the whole shebang (greater complexity of periodization). This is what you do with the advanced 5x5.

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the significance of ramping the weights with the Adv5x5 on the days that 5x5 sets across aren't used. It may not be a huge difference in workload compared to the "just enough" warmups for the intensity days of the TM, but it does make a difference in the overall tonnage moved for the week. Couple this with the fact that 5x5 sets across AND 5x5 ramped sets are intertwined on the same day for difference exercises (no dissipation of fatigue over the week) and there is a considerably more amount of work being done compared to the TM.

Also important is the idea of planned progression. The Adv5x5 manages systemic stress over the course of several weeks by having you peak and deload (or completely deload) after some really tough weeks. The TM normally wouldn't incorporate this sort of planned progression because the trainee is supposed to still be at a level where he can just keep adding weight each week. Deloads can and still should be used here, and how much and for how long depends on the trainees strength and the amount of time he's spent accumulating fatigue.

So, as you can see, I don't see the two being at all alike. :)

[Lifting N Tx]

Well, I'm sort of conflating 2 things that are really different in that TM is a method and Adv. 5x5 is a routine, so I wound up comparing partial routines that Rip uses to illustrate the TM with the Adv. 5x5. I haven't read in detail the TM threads lately.

To me it looks like Adv. 5x5 does use some TM like methods but of course does use multi-week programming. I think the 5x5 deadlifts on Adv. 5x5 are probably a lot of the extra loading, as you suggest. Looking at bench the Adv 5x5 superficially looks similar to what Rip shows for squat in his first example, with 1x5 and 5x5 days, and a light day in between. But adv 5x5 has 5x5 military or incline in the middle day. I guess I'd have to see how Rip would lay out an entire TM routine to better compare.

I don't see mixing 5x5 and 1x5 in the same day incurring more systemic fatigue over a week or longer than having the 5x5s all in one day and 1x5s all in another, but maybe I'm missing something.



As for 5x5 as a set/rep scheme, I don't think a person with decent strength can expect to use 5x5 indefinitely on any particular lift.

I think this may be the key point. Re-reading more of the TM section I note how Rip talks about TM being the first thing after linear progression stalls. That may be the critical context regarding using 5x5 and still dissipating the fatigue in one week.

Looking at Rip's table of "Basic Strength Standards" I'm Novice to Intermediate in lower body lifts but just about Advanced in bench press. I'd still like to think I could achieve some weekly progression and not have to plan progress in terms of monthly or longer plans, though.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion, Matt.

[Misanthrope]

To me it looks like Adv. 5x5 does use some TM like methods but of course does use multi-week programming. I think the 5x5 deadlifts on Adv. 5x5 are probably a lot of the extra loading, as you suggest. Looking at bench the Adv 5x5 superficially looks similar to what Rip shows for squat in his first example, with 1x5 and 5x5 days, and a light day in between. But adv 5x5 has 5x5 military or incline in the middle day. I guess I'd have to see how Rip would lay out an entire TM routine to better compare.
For me the similarities stop with the fact that both incorporate 5x5 sets across (the TM doesn't even have to). The deadlifts do contribute quite a bit to the loading in the Adv5x5, but so does the arrangement of the exercise for the entire week, across multiple weeks.

I don't see mixing 5x5 and 1x5 in the same day incurring more systemic fatigue over a week or longer than having the 5x5s all in one day and 1x5s all in another, but maybe I'm missing something.
To quote a BB.com-ism, I'd say it makes a hyoooge difference. The Texas Method is a pretty loose strategy, as you know. The only real "rule" about it is that it should follow a Volume - Recovery - Intensity format. The meat of your workload is performed on "Monday". Everything else you do for the rest of the week must be performed in a manner to not cause any further damage from Monday, and to not hamper recovery for next Monday's workout. This is how fatigue is managed throughout the week.

Not so with the Adv5x5. Not even close. Fatigue is accounted for over the course of multiple weeks, as opposed to over a single week on the TM. The 1x5 on the Texas method is preceded by a minimal warm-up. The 1x5 on the Advanced 5x5 is actually a 5x5 ramped set, and if you follow the suggestion on the spreadsheet it's a pretty damn tight ramp. There's a lot more tonnage there, for both Monday AND Friday. With TM, Friday is very low volume. With Adv5x5, Friday is basically a mirror image of Monday. Where's the weekly fatigue management there? There isn't.

Big differences there, in my opinion. I don't see how the two can even be compared.

I think this may be the key point. Re-reading more of the TM section I note how Rip talks about TM being the first thing after linear progression stalls. That may be the critical context regarding using 5x5 and still dissipating the fatigue in one week.
The critical context regarding dissipating fatigue in one week is the fact that the bulk of your workload is performed one day of the week and the rest of your sessions are spent trying not to screw it up. The Adv5x5 doesn't work anywhere close to that. Completely different concepts regarding loading, fatigue management, and overall tonnage. With the Adv5x5, you're basically working over the course of a few weeks to overreaching, and then deloading.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion, Matt.
Any time. :) It's nice to actually talk about training with someone.

[Lifting N Tx]

The 1x5 on the Advanced 5x5 is actually a 5x5 ramped set, and if you follow the suggestion on the spreadsheet it's a pretty damn tight ramp.

Good point. Having run SF 5x5 I'm used to very loose ramping in that, but looking at the SS for DF 5x5 it is very tight. That's an important point that I had missed and it supports what you're saying.

Another thing that I noticed is that the ramp up from week to week is very steep. It seems that for flat bench 5x5 sets across even with a TM type setup puts me in an "overreached" state in a couple of weeks. This may indicate that I either need to 1) try a lower volume on the volume day or to 2) go with an explicitly dual factor approach. In trying 5x5 "sets across" previously I had used a "shallow" ramp from week to week: starting maybe 20lbs below my 5x5 PR and bumping it 5-10 lbs per week...much different than the steeper ramp from one week to the next that Madcow uses in the spreadsheet.



Any time. :) It's nice to actually talk about training with someone.
Ah, ok. My wrists are sore from wrist curls. Do you think I should still do squats tomorrow or will that be overtraining?

[Misanthrope]

Volume Session

Squat
5x5
232.5 lbs

Notes: Survived another increase. I attacked the first two sets pretty quickly. The next two felt really hard. I took extra rest before the last set and it felt fairly strong. Will move up to 235 next week. :)

Dumbbell Bench Press
3 sets: 9 - 7 - 3 (lol)
70 lbs

Notes: Got an extra rep on the first set from last week. That last set was a joke. I just gave out due to lack of energy. I could barely even feel my chest at that point anyway, lol.

Power Clean
6x3
97.5 lbs

Notes: About the same as last week. Still rough in some spots, but I racked the bar fairly well every rep. I consider that an improvement. I was pretty well spent by the time I got to these.

Dips
I had nothing left at this point. I was a wobbly mess by 4 reps.

Comments
As you can see, I decided to give the full body plan a try. Not sure what I think of it. It was very draining after squats. It also took longer than an hour, which I didn't like at all. I was disappointed about dips, but maybe it's best that I only do three exercises on this day since it's very high workload. I'll try them again as an accessory exercise on Saturday's intensity session. My recovery session is Thursday, so hopefully it will be less grueling.

If I decide by the end of the week that I don't want to keep this, I'll switch back to my upper/lower next week without having lost anything.

[t-p-c]

Nice squatting! Would you consider doing pushups instead of dips? I think they are a good finishing exercise.

[Lifting N Tx]

I think if I went full body I'd probably keep the workouts pretty minimal in terms of exercise variety. If I couldn't give up all of the accessory exercises I'd probably add a 4th day just for them.

[Lifting N Tx]

Matt, I've been thinking again about our compare/contrast discussion re TM vs. Adv. 5x5. I understand the difference in approach and having considered your points and examined a copy of Madcow's spreadsheet can see better how the Advanced 5x5 is designed to bring the trainee to an overreached state, despite superficial similarity to a Texas Method approach.

However, I'm still curious about that apparent similarity. The Adv. 5x5 still has a heavy workload day, a second lighter day (though not light enough to really be a recovery day). Finally, it has a ramped "intensity" day, though again as you've noted the ramp is tight enough to still be somewhat of a workload day. Different in effect, but superficially similar to the TM. To me, it seems like you could accomplish the same effect with 5x5 "sets across" each day with the same weight each day of the week, or slightly increasing each workout. There could be a variety of schemes to achieve similar weekly workload and average intensity.

I know that Madcow's routines are largely based on Starr/Rippetoe/Pendlay training, which tends to evolve as a lifter matures. My guess is that the superficial similarity of Advanced 5x5 to TM is because the lifter doing something like Adv. 5x5 was probably once doing TM, which then morphed over time to achieve a dual factor effect.

Do you see any other reason for this superficial similarity or any other purpose that it serves?

[r_graz]

It also took longer than an hour, which I didn't like at all.
I imagine a large part of that is the 5x5 squats, given some reasonable number of warmup sets and 2-3 minute rest between sets. That stuff just takes time.

I think I spent more than 1.5 hours lifting yesterday, and that was making an honest effort to not rest any more than necessary between sets or waste any time between exercises. I figure if you get the big stuff out of the way early, it's not such a problem.

[Lifting N Tx]

I imagine a large part of that is the 5x5 squats, given some reasonable number of warmup sets and 2-3 minute rest between sets. That stuff just takes time.


I've typically taken long rests in my training. I did do some with short (1-2') rests for a while. I can do that with higher reps if I push myself. With low rep, relatively heavy stuff I start pushing rest times to 4-5 minutes once it gets tough. Even between near-limit singles I may go that long.

Maybe some of it is psychological, but I think with heavier stuff it's not really an endurance issue. More like CNS recovery. Or so it seems to me. But heavy 5x5 definitely takes me quite a while even for just one exercise.

[Misanthrope]

Nice squatting! Would you consider doing pushups instead of dips? I think they are a good finishing exercise.
Thanks, man. I don't want to exclude dips, but I'll keep pushups in mind to add at another time.

However, I'm still curious about that apparent similarity. The Adv. 5x5 still has a heavy workload day, a second lighter day (though not light enough to really be a recovery day). Finally, it has a ramped "intensity" day, though again as you've noted the ramp is tight enough to still be somewhat of a workload day. Different in effect, but superficially similar to the TM. To me, it seems like you could accomplish the same effect with 5x5 "sets across" each day with the same weight each day of the week, or slightly increasing each workout. There could be a variety of schemes to achieve similar weekly workload and average intensity.
Note the bolded portion. I'm just going by memory here, but the Adv5x5 doesn't have an "intensity day", because both Monday and Friday's workouts have exercises that are both 5x5 sets across and 5x5 ramped. Am I right? If so, that doesn't make it at all similar to the Texas Method. We may have to agree to disagree, but I just think there are some pretty different concepts at work between your "standard" TM workout and the Adv5x5.

When you say "similar weekly workload" and "average intensity", I think what makes the differences significant is the different methodologies at work. We can't ignore the fact that the Adv 5x5 does have an overall higher workload in a week (not including the deload/taper weeks). This workload isn't accomplished by giving much consideration to the dissapation of fatigue over a week -- instead, fatigue is managed in a deliberate manner over the course of weeks. Even if we pretend that the workload over the course of a week comes up to be roughly the same (it doesn't), the fact that the majority of the work done for the TM takes place on Monday underlines the crux of the entire method. It is very neccessary for fatigue to have dissapated enough over the weekend so that we are fresh again for Monday. I don't know how we could look at Friday's workout - or even Wednesday's - for the Adv5x5 and say that there is any deliberate means for recovering by the next Monday.

I just don't see the similarities.


Do you see any other reason for this superficial similarity or any other purpose that it serves?
No. I think too much is being read into the whatever superficial "similiarity" there might be. For the individual trainee, it is simply a matter of whether he can progress from week to week using fairly simple periodization, or whether he has reached a point in this training where he needs to map out progression over the course of months rather than weeks.

I imagine a large part of that is the 5x5 squats, given some reasonable number of warmup sets and 2-3 minute rest between sets. That stuff just takes time.

Yeah, that's a big part of it. It takes a lot out of you. Even using a minimal warmup it still takes quite a bit of time.

[Lifting N Tx]

Note the bolded portion. I'm just going by memory here, but the Adv5x5 doesn't have an "intensity day", because both Monday and Friday's workouts have exercises that are both 5x5 sets across and 5x5 ramped. Am I right? If so, that doesn't make it at all similar to the Texas Method. We may have to agree to disagree, but I just think there are some pretty different concepts at work between your "standard" TM workout and the Adv5x5.

I've actually agreed all along with your last sentence, and come to agree that the Adv 5x5 does differ much more significantly from a TM implementation. I think that you've shown that well.

It was just the superficial similarity that still had me curious, though perhaps I didn't make that very clear. I was wondering if you saw any reason for that similarity that I was missing. You answered that question:



No. I think too much is being read into the whatever superficial "similiarity" there might be.

As for why I fixated on that similarity, let me put it this way...take a typical BBer pump routine for arms. Maybe sets of 12, 10, 8, etc. with ascending weights, then a drop set or two. Lots of pump. I could probably achieve the same effect with 5 sets of 5. Do a set with modest weight, rest 30 seconds, do another, etc. until all 5 are done. Then do the same with short rest and another exercise for the same body part. Then a third exercise for the same body part. I bet you'd get a great pump.

Someone could look at that and see a superficial resemblance to a 5x5 strength routine, but the concepts at work would be far different. I'd look at someone doing that and wonder "what the heck?". Why did they take something that looks like a standard 5x5 and use it for something totally different? My conclusion would be that someone familiar with a 5x5 style of routine decided for some reason to "go for the pump" and adopted the one format for a totally different purpose. No special reason for using that format other than familiarity.

That's the same conclusion that I've come to with regard to Adv. 5x5 and the Texas Method format. No special reason for one "sets across" day with higher weight than the next since as you note they're not trying to dissipate fatigue in the loading weeks in the Adv 5x5. Still significant workload in the Friday workout despite the format being ramped. It looks to me like someone familiar with TM format just used it for a totally different purpose.

So, pulling some numbers from the Adv. 5x5 spreadsheet (week 1, squat 5RM of 315):

M - 233 x 5 x 5
W - 210 x 5 x 5
F - 192, 207, 222, 237, 252 all @ 5 reps

I come up with 75 reps, average load 222lbs

I'm thinking little to no difference in doing 220 x 5 x 5 each day of week 1. Alternatively 210 x 5 x 5; 220 x 5 x 5; 230 x 5 x 5, M, W, F, respectively.

Sorry to beat this to death, Matt, I just thought I'd explain what I was trying to get at in the post that you quoted.

[Misanthrope]

That's the same conclusion that I've come to with regard to Adv. 5x5 and the Texas Method format. No special reason for one "sets across" day with higher weight than the next since as you note they're not trying to dissipate fatigue in the loading weeks in the Adv 5x5. Still significant workload in the Friday workout despite the format being ramped. It looks to me like someone familiar with TM format just used it for a totally different purpose.

So, pulling some numbers from the Adv. 5x5 spreadsheet (week 1, squat 5RM of 315):

M - 233 x 5 x 5
W - 210 x 5 x 5
F - 192, 207, 222, 237, 252 all @ 5 reps

I come up with 75 reps, average load 222lbs

I'm thinking little to no difference in doing 220 x 5 x 5 each day of week 1. Alternatively 210 x 5 x 5; 220 x 5 x 5; 230 x 5 x 5, M, W, F, respectively.
Okay, I think I have a better idea of how you're seeing this now. Again, note the bolded portion. I think the explanation for this is a simple one, but it still supports my belief that the superficial similiarities are more coincedence than anything.

Actually, first, before I get into that I think it's worth acknowledging that the people behind these programs and methodologies all come from a similar school of thought. Thus, it should come as no surprise that they would employ similar systems of training, albeit different methods of periodization dependent about the individual's level of progress. When you look at it this way, the similarities aren't all that superficial. I've been thinking about this in terms of the periodization, while I think you've been looking at it in terms of overall training systems. Perhaps that's where we weren't completely touching base.

Anyway, as you know, the Adv5x5 has both ramped and sets across exercises on Monday and Friday. While mixing it up like this might not do a whole lot for fatigue dissipation over the course of a week, I think it's actually set up this way to keep the trainee from killing himself on Monday. I'll use the example you posted above. For simplicity purposes, let's pretend the same weight is being used for all three exercises.

Monday
Squat 233 x 5 x 5
Bench 192, 207, 222, 237, 252 all @ 5 reps
Row 233 x 5 x 5

Friday
Squat 192, 207, 222, 237, 252 all @ 5 reps
Bench 233 x 5 x 5
Row 192, 207, 222, 237, 252 all @ 5 reps

That's how it would look. Of course, we should assume that it is likely that a person needing an advanced program will have higher numbers than this. Imagine doing all of 5x5 sets across on Monday. That's probably going to be pretty demanding. Perhaps overly demanding. By alternating the sets across and ramped sets as the Adv5x5 does, I think it better helps to manage fatigue during the week simply to keep the trainee from becoming buried.

For me, this is where the superficial similarities start and end.

[Misanthrope]

Recovery Session

Front Squat
3x3
135 lbs

Notes: Challenging, but no real problems. Adding weight.

Press
5x5
102.5 lbs

Notes: Tough, but no breakdown in form. Add 2.5 lbs next week.

Chin-ups (neutral grip)
3 sets: 12-12-10
Bodyweight

Notes: Not as strong as I normally am with these, but got a good pump in my lats. I'll probably alternate each week between bodyweight and weighted. Hopefully they'll help each other out.

Accessory
45 degree extensions
EZ-bar Curls

Notes: Pumped up the guns for the first time in a while.

Comments
Decent session. I was tired by the end, but felt pretty good about a half hour afterward. Some of the soreness in my thighs and hamstrings has been alleviated. Hopefully I'll be ready for some PRs on Saturday.

[jked4life]

I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here and feel free to ignore it...


I think I'm seeing a lot of over analyzing going on here. I really don't think you need to put so much thought into the details and what I would consider to be minutia.

I see a lot of getting caught up in the details and quite frankly its kind of making my head spin. Sometimes you need to take a step back and see the forest not the trees.

No matter what program you use, I think in terms of simple progressive overload.

I like to rotate between three rep schemes (1-3, 4-8, 8-15).

Some months I'll do a workout with all exercises in one rep range, some months I'll vary each exercise of my workout in a different rep range, rotating the rep range of each exercise from week to week.

At each rep range, I shoot for PR's from week to week. With some time off every couple of weeks, I don't usually stall.

Not an incredibly complicated system, but it works. I personally would go crazy organizing my workouts by spreadsheet, and analyzing every detail (not that its wrong).

I'm a believer in the KISS method (Keep it Simple Stupid).




Again, I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. You guys are having an intelligent conversation. Just my 2 cents here. Its my understanding that we're all here to talk about reality, forgetting the dogma's of other places. Just being honest...

[Matt]

I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here and feel free to ignore it...


I think I'm seeing a lot of over analyzing going on here. I really don't think you need to put so much thought into the details and what I would consider to be minutia.

I see a lot of getting caught up in the details and quite frankly its kind of making my head spin. Sometimes you need to take a step back and see the forest not the trees.

No matter what program you use, I think in terms of simple progressive overload.

I like to rotate between three rep schemes (1-3, 4-8, 8-15).

Some months I'll do a workout with all exercises in one rep range, some months I'll vary each exercise of my workout in a different rep range, rotating the rep range of each exercise from week to week.

At each rep range, I shoot for PR's from week to week. With some time off every couple of weeks, I don't usually stall.

Not an incredibly complicated system, but it works. I personally would go crazy organizing my workouts by spreadsheet, and analyzing every detail (not that its wrong).

I'm a believer in the KISS method (Keep it Simple Stupid).




Again, I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. You guys are having an intelligent conversation. Just my 2 cents here. Its my understanding that we're all here to talk about reality, forgetting the dogma's of other places. Just being honest...

I agree with the Jacked one. I'm not attacking either, just giving some food for thought from a different point of view.

But I'm the hated anti-micro-loading guy, so take that for what its worth.

00ps

:p :p :p

[Misanthrope]

We were just discussing the differences between two different methodologies. Steve mentioned similarities he noticed between them. I disagreed. Discussion ensued. We enjoy talking training. I don't see the problem.

[jked4life]

We were just discussing the differences between two different methodologies. Steve mentioned similarities he noticed between them. I disagreed. Discussion ensued. We enjoy talking training. I don't see the problem.

I don't either.:)

I still stand by what I said, and by all means talk away (no sarcasm).

Like I said, I have my opinion, I dropped it. There's nothing wrong with that conversation. All is good.

[Misanthrope]

I just fail to understand how discussing facts about an existing program is over analyzing. It would be the same thing as comparing the offenses of two different football teams, and how one relies on the run, and the other relies more heavily on the pass. I don't think anyone would accuse us of "overanalyzing" if we were having that conversation.

[jked4life]

I just fail to understand how discussing facts about an existing program is over analyzing. It would be the same thing as comparing the offenses of two different football teams, and how one relies on the run, and the other relies more heavily on the pass. I don't think anyone would accuse us of "overanalyzing" if we were having that conversation.

All I said was that I use a simpler method, and I though there was more thought going into this than needed. I believe at your level, you can get results with a simpler method and less thought.

I never said your conversation was irrelevant or unnecessary. I just believe you can be successful with less complicated thought.

You are overanalyzing my overanalyzing comment.:p

[Misanthrope]

All I said was that I use a simpler method, and I though there was more thought going into this than needed. I believe at your level, you can get results with a simpler method and less thought.

EDIT: On second thought, I'm tired of talking about it.

[Matt]

hey man, no hard feelings. I think chalking it up to different strokes is the best resolution....

Here's my peace offering

http://www.dynamo-durst.at/images/swe_girls_kissing_0622.jpg

[jked4life]

hey man, no hard feelings. I think chalking it up to different strokes is the best resolution....

Here's my peace offering

http://www.dynamo-durst.at/images/swe_girls_kissing_0622.jpg

Agreed.

And reps for lesbians

[Matt]

Everyone can use a little more girl on girl in their lives.

:D :D

[Misanthrope]

Intensity Session

Squat
1x5
245 lbs (PR)

Notes: Not a huge PR here because I didn't want to start things off too crazy. This was pretty much a PR by technicality only, and I don't get too excited over those.

Decline Bench Press
3 single rep sets (3x1)
195 - 212 (PR) - 205 lbs

Notes: Decided to bust out the fractional plates in light of recent conversation in my Strength Mill journal. :rolleyes: 212 was a lot easier than I had expected, lol. I even got a spotter and told him that I had it as soon as I began to push up. Guess I should have went for 215. :) Next week I'll shed about five lbs off the bar and go for a double.

Deadlift
1x5
310 lbs (PR)

Notes: This was the ball breaker of the day. I began using the progression template that Tad suggested; and damn you, Tad, today was fuggin hard. :D I almost stalled on the fourth rep, so I wasn't even sure if I would get the fifth. The fifth rep was a killer. I sloooowly pulled it past my sticking point around the knee and locked it out. My hamstrings felt like they were going to rip out of my legs and they stayed pumped for about five minutes afterward. It felt pretty good once my soul returned to my body. I had to work hard for this PR, so I'm extremely happy with it.

Accessory
Machine donkey calf raises

Notes: Wasn't in the mood to do a whole lot of accessory work after deads. Got some calf work in and called it a day.

Comments
The normally sparsely populated YMCA parking lot was packed full today because of a bunch of kids' games at the soccer fields. It took me almost 15 friggin minutes of driving around until a parking space opened, and just as long to back out of my space when I left. Damn kids...

Anyway, good session today. Surprised by the ease of which 212 went up on decline, and really proud of the deadlift PR. I'll stick with the full body next week since it was really only Tuesday's session that was rough. Two days off coming up.

[sw1rmd85]

Sorry for jumping into the conversation rather late lol.


I could adjusting TM by dropping 5x5 for 3 sets of 5 but I'm not sure if I'd get enough effect from the "volume" workout.

When I talked to Pendlay, he did mention he has had trainees who couldn't handle the 5x5 without fatiguing; consequently, they continued to do 3x5.


I either need to 1) try a lower volume on the volume day

I don't know, but if 5x5 seems to be too much, there is some maneuverability between 3x5 and 5x5 -- if, of course, 3x5 isn't enough; you can always try 4x5 or do 3-4 sets with some back-offs.


But adv 5x5 has 5x5 military or incline in the middle day. I guess I'd have to see how Rip would lay out an entire TM routine to better compare.

I'm sure you've seen this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=35795551&postcount=245

[Lifting N Tx]

Nice job, Matt! PRs on DL and squat in the same workout is a good thing. Grinding out a 5 rep PR on DL is rough.

I forget, did you set out to make this full body experiment a TM style setup or just sort of fall into it?



When I talked to Pendlay, he did mention he has had trainees who couldn't handle the 5x5 without fatiguing; consequently, they continued to do 3x5.

Seems like I'm one of them, especially on flat bench where I'm relatively strong--just about "advanced" according to the table in Practical Programming. I can start to "bury" myself pretty quickly.



I don't know, but if 5x5 seems to be too much, there is some maneuverability between 3x5 and 5x5 -- if, of course, 3x5 isn't enough; you can always try 4x5 or do 3-4 sets with some back-offs.

I'm sure you've seen this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=35795551&postcount=245

Good comments; I have seen that. At the moment, I'm thinking of keeping to a split and moving what I'm doing closer to what Dave76 calls the "Advanced Starting Strength" setup, with some 3x5 days instead of 5x5. Those routines in the link would be a good starting point if I decided to try full body, adjusting volume down a little on the volume day.

[sw1rmd85]

Seems like I'm one of them, especially on flat bench where I'm relatively strong--just about "advanced" according to the table in Practical Programming. I can start to "bury" myself pretty quickly.

I've always wondered about that chart. I dunno; I'm about 185-190 and can do 250 for 3x5 and can add weight workout-to-workout still (well I'm assuming i can since i JUST reset). And if a novice adds weight each workout and according to the chart i'm either very late intermediate or advanced, I have no clue how accurate that chart is or if i'm just different.

[Misanthrope]

I forget, did you set out to make this full body experiment a TM style setup or just sort of fall into it?
I was already sort of using a TM method with the upper/lower, minus the recovery day, and it made a lot of sense to do it that way with the full body.

[jked4life]

Nice session Matt.

Congrats on the PR's. That'll make your weekend.:)

[Matt]

I don't know, but if 5x5 seems to be too much, there is some maneuverability between 3x5 and 5x5 -- if, of course, 3x5 isn't enough; you can always try 4x5 or do 3-4 sets with some back-offs.


Also, don't get pidgeon-holed into thinking you HAVE to do 5 reps. You could do 8 sets of 3 or 6 sets of 4 also if the 5x5 is kicking your ass.

There are many ways to skin a cat...


http://www.coolhunting.com/images/ruthmarshall-rocky-rug.jpg

[Misanthrope]

Nice session Matt.

Congrats on the PR's. That'll make your weekend.:)
Thanks, jked.

[Misanthrope]

Volume Session

Squat
5x5
235 lbs

Notes: Wow. These went really well today, even with a weight increase. I'm very encouraged by the fact I've been able to work my way up this far with 5x5 sets across. Even the last set was pretty smooth.

Dumbbell Bench Press
3 sets: 10 - 5 -5
70 lbs

Notes: Got another rep on the first set again. I'm going for max reps on the first set, which really hampers my performance on the remaining sets. I may do something different with this next week.

Power Clean
6x3
100 lbs

Notes: My best sets since starting power cleans. I've improved tremendously with these over the course of a few weeks.

Comments
Much, much better session today than last Tuesday. My energy was there, and I wasn't dragging ass by the end like I was last time. The session still took a bit longer than I wanted, but I can't really complain this time. It feels good to know that the bulk of my work for the week is done. Recovery session on Thursday and then hopefully some PRs on Saturday.

[Misanthrope]

I think I accidentally deleted this after I posted it this afternoon, lol.

Recovery Session

Front Squat
3x3
140 lbs

Notes: Add 5.

Press
4x5, 1x4 :mad:
105 lbs

Notes: Missed the very last damn rep, lol. I fought and fought for it, but finally had to accept it wasn't going up. I was leaning way too far back and my legs were shaking. It was tempting to use leg drive to lock that last rep out, but I really want to keep my form clean. Repeat 105 next week.

Chin-up (neutral grip)
3 sets: 15 - 12 - 10 reps
Bodyweight

Notes: I had planned to do these weighted, but I got tired of waiting for the dip belt, so I went with bodyweight again. These were decent; a little better than last week.

Accessory
45 degree extensions
Barbell curls

Comments
Average session. I had to wait on almost every station I used today, and that can be a real momentum killer. Hopefully Saturday's session will be better than average.

[Matt]

I had to wait on almost every station I used today, and that can be a real momentum killer.

That shit drives me nuts, when I lift in a commercial gym. Sometimes I wanna yell at that people and tell them I am far more important, go do something else.

:D :D

[Misanthrope]

Intensity Session

Squat
1x5
250 lbs (PR)

Notes: More of a challenge than last week's effort, but nothing major. My previous known 3RM was 255, and I see no reason why I can't get it for five next week.

Decline Bench Press
Doubles (3x2)
187.5 - 207.5 (PR) - 197.5 lbs

Notes: Decent effort. Bar speed was considerably slow on the second rep of the PR. Almost failed on the last rep of 197.5 afterward, lol. I'll strip off 5 lbs next week and go for a PR triple.

Deadlift
1x4
320 (PR)

Notes: This wasn't too bad. :) After 310x5 almost killed me last week, I expected a similar outcome for four reps today. The fourth rep was really the only slow one and it was just a matter of dragging it past my sticking point. I'm very pleased with how my deadlift is progression. I plan on owning my PR triple attempt next week.

Comments
Stellar workout, overall. Second week of PRs on the full body format. I skipped accessory work today because I was really hungry by the time I got to deadlifts. This was because my workout started almost 20 minutes late due to the second straight week of not being able to find a parking space at the gym. It's those damn soccer games out on the fields by the Y. The parents and spectators fill up the parking lot and apparently the Y doesn't give a damn about whether the regular customers have a place to park. It's starting to piss me off. I pay every month to go there just like everyone else. My motivation to work out was replaced by anger, and I had to get myself psyched up all over again when I finally made it into the building.

Anyway, good session to end the week. The intensity sessions are my favorite. Looking forward to next week.

[sw1rmd85]

nice pr's dude


I was really hungry by the time I got to deadlifts.

lol thats never happened to me. whenever i workout, my appetite disappears during and for a rather long time after.

[Dave(DBD)]

Park on the soccer field. Problem solved.

Interesting to see you're using a TM variation again.

[Misanthrope]

nice pr's dude



lol thats never happened to me. whenever i workout, my appetite disappears during and for a rather long time after.
It was a bit unusual for me, too. I guess that what happens when your workout starts late because you can't find a place to park. :mad:

Park on the soccer field. Problem solved.

Interesting to see you're using a TM variation again.
Indeed. It's the first time I've done it with a full body format, and the first time I've done full body since last December. I just want to concentrate entirely on gaining strength for a while, and I think going as basic as possible is the best way for me to do it.

[Misanthrope]

Volume Session

Squat
5x5
237.5 lbs

Notes: Solid yet again. The last rep on the fourth set was a grind, so I gave myself a couple extra minutes of rest after. I nailed the fifth set. :)

Decline Bench Press
4 sets: 6-6-6-4 reps
165 lbs

Notes: This sorta sucked. Weight was a bit heavy for the intended volume. See 'Comments' for additional notes.

Power Clean
6x3
105 lbs

Notes: Power cleans are fun. I let myself get sloppy on a rep here and there, and it's usually because I didn't generate enough power. When I tell myself "hard and fast" I rack that bad boy with no trouble. I'm really enjoying these as I get better at them.

Comments
Can't say I'm too upset with how this workout went. My squats are still sailing through every weight increase, and my power clean is going very well. Best of all, this was easily my best session so far in terms of maintaining my stamina for a Tuesday volume workout. This one didn't pass an hour like the previous two.

I tried decline press today because I wasn't sure if I liked how flat DB press was being used in the context of this program. So, I decided to give decline a shot to see if I liked it better. If I decide to keep it for next week, I'll definitely have to lower the weight a bit. I may go with 3x8 instead of 4x6, since I have a little extra added volume for decline in Saturday's intensity session.

Overall, very good workout with some positive developments.

[t-p-c]

Nice squatting! I wanna try power cleans but I know my form would be garbage.

No more dips???

[Misanthrope]

Nice squatting! I wanna try power cleans but I know my form would be garbage.
Everyone's form is garbage the first few times you try. You shouldn't let that keep you from doing them.

No more dips???
Nope, not for this session. They may be relocated to another day.

[Lifting N Tx]

Nice squatting! I wanna try power cleans but I know my form would be garbage.




Usually, people just feel intimidated by anything that resembles a technical exercise and just would rather not do them. This is just being a pussy, and sets a bad precedent for the management of both training and life.


Just sayin' ... ;)

[t-p-c]

Just sayin' ... ;)

damnit lol

[Dave(DBD)]

Everyone's form is garbage the first few times you try. You shouldn't let that keep you from doing them.


Agreed. When in doubt, get a copy of starting strength. It does an awesome job going through the details.

btw, nice squat progress Matt

[Misanthrope]

Recovery Session

Front Squat
3x3
145 lbs

Notes: Very good. Was able to hit a good depth. I'm 10 lbs away from my tested 3RM, so hopefully we'll see some PRs pretty soon.

Press
5x5
105 lbs

Notes: Got it this time. You might recall that I couldn't lock out the final rep last week. I got it without much of a fight this time. Increase 2.5 for next week.

Chin-ups (neutral grip)
3 sets: 8-6-6 reps
BW+15 lbs

Notes: Felt stronger than last time. I'm going to try to keep the volume as even as possible for a while, so look for increases across sets rather than an all-out effort on the first set.

Dips
3x9
Bodyweight

Notes: These were done in alternating sets with chins since I use the same station for both. I decided to move dips to this session. Hopefully it will not affect my decline PR attempt on Saturday.

Accessory
45 degree extensions
EZ-bar curls

Notes: Got the guns nice and pumped. ;) I've decided to stop worrying about reps on curls and just go by feel. I get too caught up in whether or not I've added a rep from last time, and I ignore how my biceps actually feel.

Comments
Really good workout. Everything felt good and it gave me a good "cool-off" from Tuesday's volume session. Looking forward to cranking out some PRs on Saturday. :)

[r_graz]

You've made incredible progress on dips, Matt. Esp. considering there was a time when you were convinced you simply couldn't do them at all.

[Misanthrope]

Intensity Session

Squat
1x5
255 lbs (PR)

Notes: None.

Decline Bench Press
3x3
185.5 - 202.5 (PR) - 190.5

Notes: None.

Deadlift
1x2 (Actual attempt: 1x3 - fail)
330 lbs

Notes: I was way too distracted to be doing this today. I don't think strength was the problem. My mind was light years from the gym. More comments below.

Comments
I was dealing with some personal stuff and it really distracted me this morning. Without going into too much detail, my girlfriend has had a life-long medical situation that has come and gone throughout her life thus far. Yesterday, it reared its ugly head, and she's been having a really rough weekend. I wasn't even going to go to the gym today, but she insisted. Needless to say, my thoughts weren't on the task at hand; they were with her. By the time I got to my triple attempt for deadlift, I couldn't concentrate. I felt weak and my form was slop. I'm not too concerned about it at the moment.

I can be excited about the other PRs later. Right now my mind is in another place.

[Misanthrope]

Volume Session

Squat
5x5
240 lbs

Notes: Better than anticipated following a layoff. Basically picked up where I left off. I may or may not have done six sets instead of five, lol. I might have lost track after my third set. Either way, the last set was a bitch. Increase 2.5 lbs next week.

Decline Bench Press
3x8
155 lbs

Notes: Meh. These were okay. I had planned on doing flat DB bench, but all of the benches were in use and I didn't want to wait.

Power Clean
6x3
110 lbs

Notes: Started off rough, but got better with each set. Does anyone else experience this with power cleans? I probably need to do a more thorough warm-up now that the weight is increasing.

Comments
All things considered, it was a decent session having come back from a week away from the gym. With all the stress and lack of eating/sleeping from earlier in the week, I wasn't expecting much today. However, I was able to get some good meals in and some good nights of sleep the last couple of days, so I felt better. This workout lasted fairly long because I gave myself plenty of rest between sets. That's part of the reason I thought it would be good to have this session on Saturday. I can take my time.

Did you guys read Rippetoe's comments about decline bench in the new edition of SS? To say he isn't a fan is an understatement, lol. He certainly has his opinions.

[r_graz]

Started off rough, but got better with each set. Does anyone else experience this with power cleans?

Yes, absolutely. After warmups (triples and doubles of increasing weight), I find that each working set goes a little better than the previous one.

The way I see it, there's an awful lot going on in a clean, and you can't really think about more than a couple of them as you do each one. So by the time you get to the end, you've more or less dialed in everything, so even if you're a bit fatigued at that point, the reps are better.

I'm guessing that this becomes less and less the case as you get more experience with the exercise.

Of course my theory might be total sh!t :), but at any rate I do experience what you describe.

[Dave(DBD)]

Did you guys read Rippetoe's comments about decline bench in the new edition of SS? To say he isn't a fan is an understatement, lol. He certainly has his opinions.

I haven't got my copy yet but I'm pretty sure I knew that anyways. I'll be interested to see exactly why. Rippetoe's certainly knows his subject well however it really is up to you how you apply his input. His methods may be a very effecient way of developing strength but if you're just a recreational lifter then you're primary goal is probably personal satisfaction followed by strength.



The way I see it, there's an awful lot going on in a clean, and you can't really think about more than a couple of them as you do each one. So by the time you get to the end, you've more or less dialed in everything, so even if you're a bit fatigued at that point, the reps are better.
.

I agree. Within a set I seem to correct from the last rep more and more each time. Unless its a harsh PR attempt, that doesnt always seem to happen

[Misanthrope]

Recovery Session

Front Squat
3x3
150 lbs

Notes: These were good. I think I still have a good run of progression left before I stall. My previous tested 3RM was 155 (though I could have done more), so if I hit all my sets next week it will be a volume PR.

Press
3x5
107.5 lbs

Notes: I had hoped for at least one more week of 5x5, but after barely locking out the last rep on my third set, I decided to keep it at three. I'm going to push as far as I can with 3x5. My main interest is to see how much my 5RM has improved using strict form. If I have to scale it down to a couple of weeks of 1x5 to still add weight, I'll do that. I reeeaaaalllly do NOT want to reset for a while.

Chin-ups (neutral grip)
3 sets: 8-7-7 reps
BW+15 lbs

Notes: Meh.

Dips
3 sets: 10-10-6 reps
Bodyweight

Notes: Meh.

Accessory
45 degree extensions

Comments
Very blah session. A little too blah for my liking. Aside from front squats, which went well, there wasn't too much to be impressed with today. I didn't eat well yesterday, and I got up much earlier than usual today, so I'm sure that factored in. I also still had horrible DOMS from Saturday. Meh. They can't all be stellar, I guess.

Intensity session is Wednesday. Hopefully I'll feel up for getting some extra arm work in at the end. Been neglecting that lately.

[t-p-c]

Nice dips Matt. What is your plan with these? Get to bwx10x3 and then add weight?

[Misanthrope]

Nice dips Matt. What is your plan with these? Get to bwx10x3 and then add weight?
Either that or shoot even higher for bodyweight reps. They're still a work in progress for me.