Steroid Usage on the Beginner Routine

[Amu]

Certain teenagers are bent on using anabolic steroids with SS. Since advice over side effects doesn't work well, I was wondering whether you think they'll even be effective. I don't see how steroids would be wise when you're already progressing in a linear manner.

Your advice is valued and would help many of those looking into steroids. I apologize if this question is unappropriate for this section.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It's perfectly appropriate, and I think you for the opportunity to answer this question on the record. Novices progress in a linear manner. Novices on this program are frequently accused of using steroids, most usually by people that are unfamiliar with the capacity for human adaptation when training, food, and rest are optimal in people who have previously not adapted to them. This adaptation can result in bodyweight and strength increases in novice trainees that are far in excess of what can be obtained by more advanced athletes using steroids. It is not uncommon for novices to gain 40 lbs. of bodyweight and 300 lbs. of squat strength on this program. Anyone who thinks that steroids can improve upon this is inexperienced with both this method and steroids. I have had quite a bit of experience with both.

Therefore when I tell you the following things, you can believe me:

1. Nothing works better for a novice than a linear progression on heavy squats and 1 gallon of whole milk per day. Nothing.

2. Novices who insist on using steroids are lazy bastards who want a shortcut where there is none. The fact that they want a shortcut means that they are not willing to do the work that is actually necessary EVEN IF YOU DO TAKE STEROIDS.

3. There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a Fucking Pussy. I have no time or patience for Fucking Pussies. Please tell everyone you know that I said this.

[Amu]

Would you be just as angry if someone took steroids with Madcow's intermediate/advanced 5x5?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I get mad when people take steroids instead of training hard, thus becoming Fucking Pussies. If the shoe fits...

[Paul Stagg]

I honestly think this is the best response on the subject I've ever seen.

[Stu Hughes]

It is not uncommon for novices to gain 40 lbs. of bodyweight and 300 lbs. of squat strength on this program.

Wow, is that for a 1RM or sets of 5? I assume you're talking about the first 9-12 months on the program?

[Mark Rippetoe]

That is for a 5RM, in the first 9 months. If you'll just do the program.

[Markus]

Mark what does qualify as a begginer? I have done o-lifting seriously for 2 years and am in powerlifting now. Im gonna hit a 462 squat soon at about 198 lbs. Would I get a 300 lbs progress in my squat in 9 months? Id love to be doing 762 at 238 :D.
If I dont qualify as a begginer, then what is the rate of progression you have seen on the intermediate program? Thanks! :D

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are not a beginner. But there is no way to quantify your rate of progress as an intermediate, except to say that it will be "slow". But it should also be "steady" for quite some time, so that good progress can be made over the next year.

[Markus]

If my program will be steady would the texas method take me there by the end of next year?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes.

[noahfor]

What about me? I've been lifting weights for 2.5 years, but because of poor training and not gaining weight I haven't made as much progress as I could have. I didn't gain weight because I didn't want to because I was rock climbing(bouldering) and doing jiu jitsu, but I'm no longer doing those things and I'd like to gain as much weight as possible. I squat 315, deadlift 375, bench 225, and press 150, at a body weight of 160. Would I be able to make progress using SS, or would I be better suited for an intermediate method.

My understanding of PP would lead me to believe that the ability to progress on SS doesn't depend on weight gain, once a trainee has moved into the intermediate stage because it's not that the trainee can't recover, it's that the training stimulus isn't great enough to spur supercompensation. But, my intuition, which I probably shouldn't listen to, tells me that if I am consuming lots of calories and gaining lots of weight that I should be able to make progress every workout. Thanks alot.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The default position is always to try the linear progression, whether you're a novice, or an intermediate or advanced lifter coming back after a significant layoff. This is because it works the fastest for gaining size and strength, and until you try it to see if it works (and it always does, if only for a few weeks) you are probably wasting training time.

[Stu Hughes]

That is for a 5RM, in the first 9 months. If you'll just do the program.

Not missed a workout yet, and chugging that milk like it's going out of fashion. 50kg work sets on the first workout to 75kg on the sixth - I owe you one Mark :D

[Mark Rippetoe]

I drink Samual Adams Boston Ale.

[Stu Hughes]

I drink Samual Adams Boston Ale.

Samuel Adams Boston Ale < Batemans Victory Ale :p

[Mark Rippetoe]

But I don't have access to Bateman's here in North Texas. What do you suggest I do?

[Brandon Oto]

Move. This beer program is based around Bateman's.

[Polynomial]

Do you have any thoughts about HGH or steroid supplementation for 'anti-aging' purposes? Here's an interesting (http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html) article about an older cyclist that experimented with these substances under medical supervision.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, I think that is an awfully long article.

[mlawson]

Play the hand your are dealt. I have Crohn's disease. I get put on Prednisone a few times a year and have had around 3 feet of my guts cut out. GH or Test would be "understandible" by some BS standards but i rough it out.

My doc told me i said, "staple me up and let me train" while in recovery after my first bowel re segment (i was loopy and cant recall if i did). Though i was, at the time, referring to Jiu-Jitsu, the same mentality applies to any endeavor. Old, Sick, leg blown off by RPG (a client of mine) it does not matter. These are more reasons to train as hard as you can.

Few things can be as demoralizing as dropping from a 400 lb dead to not being able to lift my backpack with SS in it off the ground; however, you will have a few things to look forward to:
1. get to start drinking shit stacks of milk
2. Linear progression again!
3. being able to stare anyone in the face and say, "yeah im back. when it happens again, ill be back again"

Fuck it. Train.

[Stu Hughes]

But I don't have access to Bateman's here in North Texas. What do you suggest I do?

Many will swear by home-brewed mead as a substitute to English ale.

[Mark Rippetoe]

We need to talk about that mead.

[mlawson]

mead makes the world go round. sadly it is also responsible for the worst hangover of my life.