A question about power cleans

[Irishman301]

I searched the forum for the answer to this, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. It's actually a 2 part question. Here's my deal with power cleans. As of right now I suck at them. I've been practicing and practicing with the bar, but my form still sucks. I have been substituting rows for them (I know it's not what you're supposed to do, but I love rows), but I've still been practicing the cleans with the empty bar.

1.) Considering that I can not yet do power cleans with proper form, should I still try to do them on the power clean day at the end of my workout with whatever form I can, although it's bad form? Basically I'd be doing 5 x 3 power cleans with the bar, but with crappy form (until it gets better of course). OR would you suggest that I do squats, overhead press, and rows, then just spend like 20 minutes or so working on my form for power cleans and eventually replace the rows when I have my form down much better?

[Mark Rippetoe]

It may very well be that you need to add some weight to the bar to practice your cleans. If you have followed the instruction in the BBT power clean chapter, and know that a clean is a jump with the bar in your hands that racks on the shoulders, you probably need to be using a weight that is heavy enough that it cannot be done wrong. Light weights can be done wrong -- heavier weight won't rack unless you clean it correctly. Quite often form gets better when the weight goes up, simply because it can't be cleaned wrong.

[Irishman301]

Okay, I'll try adding some weight then. I figured that I was supposed to wait until I had my form perfected with just the bar before I started to add weight, but I'll give some weight a shot. Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Quite often, for many exercises, form improves with the addition of weight -- within the boundaries of reason. This is sometimes due to the opportunity to stretch afforded by the weight, as with a squat, or the inability to do it terribly wrong, as with a clean or a snatch. Now, this does not mean that it is always better to add weight, but sometimes it helps stretch into position or motivates a better explosion.

[Irishman301]

Ya I did notice that it is much easier to do a good squat with at least 135 lbs. on my back then it is to do with an empty bar. It keeps me from falling on my ass backwards. I can't wait to try these cleans now, I thought I was never gonna get it.