Would you please help me solve this puzzle

[Drewfasa]

So KSC gave me this intermediate programme, which I'm thankful for:

Monday
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
P.Cleans 6x3

Weds
Front squat 3x3
Press 5x5
Chins x whatever

Friday
Squat 5rm
Bench 5rm
Deadlift 5rm


However, on a reply to flying fox you said not to do heavy presses on Wednesday. So here is my questions:

1)Can heavy presses 5x5 be added to Monday's workload or is that too much - if not, where can they go?

2)Ditto chin-ups.

3) Is it possible to do all 5 lifts each day on a 3-day a week TM programme, because if not, I really don't see how each lift can be done every week without interfering with another one.

Many thanks,

Drew

[Mark Rippetoe]

KSC gets to answer.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Drewfasa,

It is possible that Mark and I have varying opinions on the use of the press on a light day. I have done this program myself and used it with others with good success, but Mark has been doing this shit alot longer than I have and probably has run the Texas Method with many many more people than I have.

As I see it you have a few options:

1) Run the program as i outlined it and see what happens, altering the program as needed to keep progress going.
2) Do the alternating version that has been posted a few times on the board:

Week 1
Bench 5 x 5
Press 2 x 5 or 3 x 3 or something low volume and somewhat easy
Bench 1 x 1-5

Week 2
Press 5 x 5
Bench - low volume
Press 1 x 1-5

The option I gave you is basically for a powerlifter wanting to concentrate on squat - bench - dead. But even for a powerlifter the press is an important exercise and if it is only going to be trained once per week, should get adequate volume and intensity (in my opinon)

to your other questions:
- I wouldn't suggest trying heavy presses and heavy benches for 5 x 5 on the same day.
- No you cannot train all five core lifts every day 3 days per week. Not effectively or efficiently.

What are your ultimate goals with your training? General strength & size, powerlifting, etc????

I think the TM is the best way to organize training for an intermediate, but the split routine might be an option for you as well. If you can though, I'd try and make the TM work for you. Hope I haven't further added to the confusion.

[Drewfasa]

No, that helps a great deal KSC, and thank you again for you kind help. My goals are entirely strength oriented - basically, I just want to continue with what I was doing until I stalled irredeemably on the novice programme. I will stick with the first one you recommended, as it's already gotten me unstuck in only a week (cheers!). If I stall again I'll think about doing the second one. But thank you for posting, you've totally answered my questions 100% actually.

Best,

Drew

[Draco]

Week 1
Bench 5 x 5
Press 2 x 5 or 3 x 3 or something low volume and somewhat easy
Bench 1 x 1-5

But even for a powerlifter the press is an important exercise and if it is only going to be trained once per week, should get adequate volume and intensity (in my opinon)

Isn't there a discrepancy there? In the routine outline, you say to keep the press "low volume and somewhat easy." But then if the press is to be done just once per week, it should be done with "adequate volume and intensity"? I know your full post had presses alternating weekly with bench, but you seem to be also advocating a weekly plan that would go:

M: bench 5x5
W: press 2x5 (done "all-out")
F: bench 1x1-5

And I think this brings things back to Drewfasa's original question: If Rip commented that heavy presses would be a poor choice for a Light day, how do you program presses just once per week with a TM template?

BTW, I appreciate your help on this. And, in case Rip is reading, I'm not really violating my one-question-per-week rule, since I'm asking KSC, right? Yes, I really DO care.

[Mark Rippetoe]

My $.02: It depends on whether presses for you represent a large % of your bench press 1RM/5RM. If you are a competitive powerlifter with a big contest bench, the press will not serve to add a lot of stress that must be recovered from. But if your strength is more balanced the way a less-specialized athlete's should be, presses at 75% of the same RM would tap in more.

[Drewfasa]

My $.02: It depends on whether presses for you represent a large % of your bench press 1RM/5RM. If you are a competitive powerlifter with a big contest bench, the press will not serve to add a lot of stress that must be recovered from. But if your strength is more balanced the way a less-specialized athlete's should be, presses at 75% of the same RM would tap in more.

in which case....?

I've been asking this question for months, I just know you're going to answer it soon...I can feel it.

[Draco]

My $.02: It depends on whether presses for you represent a large % of your bench press 1RM/5RM. If you are a competitive powerlifter with a big contest bench, the press will not serve to add a lot of stress that must be recovered from. But if your strength is more balanced the way a less-specialized athlete's should be, presses at 75% of the same RM would tap in more.

Excellent! That definitely clarifies the matter (and explains why "written for everyone" TM routines miss the point of the method). I feel like a light has lit up in the attic.

[Drewfasa]

Excellent! That definitely clarifies the matter (and explains why "written for everyone" TM routines miss the point of the method). I feel like a light has lit up in the attic.

Really? Can you enlighten me? Where would you put your heavy presses Draco?

[Draco]

Really? Can you enlighten me? Where would you put your heavy presses Draco?

If you combine the last thing Rip says in the Starr thread, that Flying Fox posted, along with the last thing he says in this thread, you see that it all depends. How strong is your press relative to your bench? I just saw a post from a dude on this forum who said his bench is 245 and his press is 135. Sounds like he could do presses on the Light day without trouble (or better, focus on the press rather than the bench on Mon/Fri for a little while). But if you're pressing about 75% of your bench weight, 2 or 3 x5 might be too much for the Light day. Rip doesn't like btn presses, but I don't see why they can't be done as a Light day exercise if one is able to comfortably do them. If not btn presses, then db presses might be the another choice. 2x5 seems right to me, maybe 3x5 if you're feeling great.

I PM'd all this stuff to you (and you PM'd back) before you made that last post, I think. That's cool. I'm sure you just want someone to call me out on it if it's all fucked up. And maybe they will.