Question about squat form

[sgtmattbaker]

I have started doing heavy squats again (did not do them for a while because of a complication) but I think my form is bad. I can't keep my back rigid and it feels like I am doing a lot of lifting with my back. I have read Rippetoe's book about squats and have been trying to do them that way but they don't feel right. A couple powerlifters at my gym say his advice about looking slightly down to engage the hips is false and that to keep my chest up and my back arched I need to look straight ahead or slightly up. They also say I should sit back further and that when my back loosens the hamstrings loosen up and it goes to my knees, quads and back. One of them specifically said that the middle of the foot advice was bad too because the best squatters there are squat on their heels. This was also his reasoning for the head position on the squat. I am having trouble thinking of a cue for the descent part of the squat; whatever I do just doesn't feel right. Here are 4 sets of squats. I also have trouble keeping the arch in my back. My back isn't weak (my deadlift is decent) but it apparently isn't good enough fto help on squats. I would ask Rippetoe but he banned be from his q and a for asking too many questions/asking too many stupid questions (essentially bothering him). Thanks.

Warmup set 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-R7TzPhoo

Work set 1: It hasn't uploaded fully yet, if you would search wookieeassassin in youtube it should come up

Work set 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStb4FbsGOI

Work set 3:It hasn't uploaded fully yet, if you would search wookieeassassin in youtube it should come up

Work set 3 is the worst because that was the most difficult set.

Thanks again.

[Charles Staley]

OK I won't ban you (yet) but you're off to a bad start- that video was so far away and so fuzzy that I can't tell anything from watching it.

Incidentally I like Rippetoe's squat method but there are other methods too. Your friends are incorrect to say it's wrong however.

Maybe take a better video and I'll see if I can help you out a bit


I have started doing heavy squats again (did not do them for a while because of a complication) but I think my form is bad. I can't keep my back rigid and it feels like I am doing a lot of lifting with my back. I have read Rippetoe's book about squats and have been trying to do them that way but they don't feel right. A couple powerlifters at my gym say his advice about looking slightly down to engage the hips is false and that to keep my chest up and my back arched I need to look straight ahead or slightly up. They also say I should sit back further and that when my back loosens the hamstrings loosen up and it goes to my knees, quads and back. One of them specifically said that the middle of the foot advice was bad too because the best squatters there are squat on their heels. This was also his reasoning for the head position on the squat. I am having trouble thinking of a cue for the descent part of the squat; whatever I do just doesn't feel right. Here are 4 sets of squats. I also have trouble keeping the arch in my back. My back isn't weak (my deadlift is decent) but it apparently isn't good enough fto help on squats. I would ask Rippetoe but he banned be from his q and a for asking too many questions/asking too many stupid questions (essentially bothering him). Thanks.

Warmup set 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-R7TzPhoo

Work set 1: It hasn't uploaded fully yet, if you would search wookieeassassin in youtube it should come up

Work set 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStb4FbsGOI

Work set 3:It hasn't uploaded fully yet, if you would search wookieeassassin in youtube it should come up

Work set 3 is the worst because that was the most difficult set.

Thanks again.

[sgtmattbaker]

thanks...? That video is about the best quality I can produce with what I have. Also, I have not been able to find an angle that is any better to shoot from in respect to how the power rack is positioned; a shot directly from the side isn't any good either.

[coldfire]

One of them specifically said that the middle of the foot advice was bad too because the best squatters there are squat on their heels. Thanks again.

This comment is just retarded. Seriously, you are asking too many questions instead of reading again the squat chapter and doing what it says. You can't get a good squat by listening to everybody's advice. You have to stick to something you agree with, and not just listen to anyone who tells you something different.

Just read the fucking chapter again and do your squats.

[Tuesday]

thanks...? That video is about the best quality I can produce with what I have. Also, I have not been able to find an angle that is any better to shoot from in respect to how the power rack is positioned; a shot directly from the side isn't any good either.
More light and a lighter background would go a long way to cleaning up the video. As would positioning the camera closer to the subject. The side view is a lot better because there's contrast between the subject and the background, but the camera is still twice as far away as it should be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O78Monqa0-Y

Don't send someone on a treasure hunt for the videos you want him to review just because you were impatient to post, particularly when he's volunteering his valuable time to help you. And don't delete videos you've requested a critique on, even if they're lousy. Both are just rude. And it's not that you ask too many questions or that you ask stupid questions, but rather you ask questions that suggest you want other people to do your thinking and your work for you.

As coaching isn't my full time job, I was willing to take the time to decipher your post and videos in the hope coach Staley would critique my critique of your squats. You descend too fast and you rush through the set. The fast descent makes your low back flex at the bottom, and in later reps it pushes your knees and hips out of position because you let it get out of hand as you rush through the set. This poor position at the bottom makes you drive your hips back a bit rather than straight up. Other than that the squats look fine. Here's the changes to make: take a deep breath between reps and descend under control. It's strength training, not metcon. Also, if you're not using hard soled weightlifting shoes, get some.

[sgtmattbaker]

I was posting the links to the videos right before I had to go to work so they had not finished processing yet. If I knew what I was doing wrong with the squats I wouldn't be asking someone else.

"This comment is just retarded... Just read the fucking chapter again and do your squats." You fail to give a good reason why the parts of the squat I am questioning should be done the way Rippetoe says. "Just do it" isn't a good enough reason.

When I do look slightly done while doing squats it seems that my chest drops. That isn't something I made up just because someone disagreed. Even though, since these people disagree why don't you show some reasons why they are wrong. You can't use Starting Strength as a reference because that is the work they disagree with on head position and the weight being centered over the middle of the feet. One point one of them made was that your body follows your head. If you are looking down your chest, back, etc. will go down.

I feel like I am having difficulty getting the bar on a good position on my back. DUring earlier sets my left shoulder will get "pinched" and hurt with the low-bar position but I don't feel as if the bar is very secure unless I pull my shoulders back pretty tight and let it rest on them. The problem with the "pinching" goes away when the weight gets heavier.
I cannot keep the arch in my back at all.

I have flat, hard-soled shoes on in the video. The speed of my descent is my interpretation of "going down quickly, but in a controlled manner" from Starting Strength. I don't feel like I am dropping uncontrollably, but it still doesn't feel right.

Here are the videos I deleted and uploaded again. They have the same angle but the video is brighter:

warmup set 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTwVI1vVS30

work set 1: This video is gone because someone had walked in the way of the camera and blocked its view of my lifting.

work set 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvHiBY0_GuY

work set 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTVHzW_AvY

The whole movement just doesn't feel right. I have thought of the cue of pushing my knees out as I am going down to move the bar close to the middles of the feet (not horizontal movement I mean) but it feels much more natural to lean far forward while doing them.

[Charles Staley]

I'd love to help, but thst video is absolutely worthless. Maybe try to get the camera 40-50 feet closer?


I was posting the links to the videos right before I had to go to work so they had not finished processing yet. If I knew what I was doing wrong with the squats I wouldn't be asking someone else.

"This comment is just retarded... Just read the fucking chapter again and do your squats." You fail to give a good reason why the parts of the squat I am questioning should be done the way Rippetoe says. "Just do it" isn't a good enough reason.

When I do look slightly done while doing squats it seems that my chest drops. That isn't something I made up just because someone disagreed. Even though, since these people disagree why don't you show some reasons why they are wrong. You can't use Starting Strength as a reference because that is the work they disagree with on head position and the weight being centered over the middle of the feet. One point one of them made was that your body follows your head. If you are looking down your chest, back, etc. will go down.

I feel like I am having difficulty getting the bar on a good position on my back. DUring earlier sets my left shoulder will get "pinched" and hurt with the low-bar position but I don't feel as if the bar is very secure unless I pull my shoulders back pretty tight and let it rest on them. The problem with the "pinching" goes away when the weight gets heavier.
I cannot keep the arch in my back at all.

I have flat, hard-soled shoes on in the video. The speed of my descent is my interpretation of "going down quickly, but in a controlled manner" from Starting Strength. I don't feel like I am dropping uncontrollably, but it still doesn't feel right.

Here are the videos I deleted and uploaded again. They have the same angle but the video is brighter:

warmup set 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTwVI1vVS30

work set 1: This video is gone because someone had walked in the way of the camera and blocked its view of my lifting.

work set 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvHiBY0_GuY

work set 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTVHzW_AvY

The whole movement just doesn't feel right. I have thought of the cue of pushing my knees out as I am going down to move the bar close to the middles of the feet (not horizontal movement I mean) but it feels much more natural to lean far forward while doing them.

[sgtmattbaker]

Sorry for my irritated response. If I move it to the side my head position cannot be seen.

[coldfire]

"This comment is just retarded... Just read the fucking chapter again and do your squats." You fail to give a good reason why the parts of the squat I am questioning should be done the way Rippetoe says. "Just do it" isn't a good enough reason.

When I do look slightly done while doing squats it seems that my chest drops. That isn't something I made up just because someone disagreed. Even though, since these people disagree why don't you show some reasons why they are wrong. You can't use Starting Strength as a reference because that is the work they disagree with on head position and the weight being centered over the middle of the feet. One point one of them made was that your body follows your head. If you are looking down your chest, back, etc. will go down.


If you rellay have to ask me an explanation of why the bar is over the mid of the foot, you really need to read the book. About keeping the chest up - YOU control your chest, not the direction of your eyes and your head.

If I actually have to explain myself, than you haven't read the book. If your friends disagree with the weight being over the middle of the feet, they disagree with laws of physics. I wouldn't listen to them after this point.

[Tuesday]

I was posting the links to the videos right before I had to go to work so they had not finished processing yet. If I knew what I was doing wrong with the squats I wouldn't be asking someone else.
Do you think someone will want to help you if you come across as a jerk, regardless of your justification?



"This comment is just retarded... Just read the fucking chapter again and do your squats." You fail to give a good reason why the parts of the squat I am questioning should be done the way Rippetoe says. "Just do it" isn't a good enough reason.

When I do look slightly done while doing squats it seems that my chest drops. That isn't something I made up just because someone disagreed. Even though, since these people disagree why don't you show some reasons why they are wrong. You can't use Starting Strength as a reference because that is the work they disagree with on head position and the weight being centered over the middle of the feet. One point one of them made was that your body follows your head. If you are looking down your chest, back, etc. will go down.

I feel like I am having difficulty getting the bar on a good position on my back. DUring earlier sets my left shoulder will get "pinched" and hurt with the low-bar position but I don't feel as if the bar is very secure unless I pull my shoulders back pretty tight and let it rest on them. The problem with the "pinching" goes away when the weight gets heavier.
I cannot keep the arch in my back at all.

If you grab someone's head, their body will follow, true. This is because the head is on one end of a firm structure far from the center of gravity and very far from the point of support (i.e. a second class lever). But if you want to apply power, you lead with your hips. You don't throw someone else around by moving your own head.

Coach Rippetoe has already justified his position on squat technique -- recall the tennis ball drill, the pictures contrasting head up and head down form, and associated text in the squat chapter of SS. You need to provide more of a rebuttal than "these powerlifters I know say so" and "if I use correct technique rather than my interpretation of it, most of my problems go away" if you want anyone to listen to your arguments.

And as you have a problem with Rip's arguments, you should be taking it up with him, not us. If he has banned you from his forum, give him a call at CrossFit Wichita Falls/WFAC and apologize for being a dick, whether you think you were or not. He may be willing to point you in the right direction.

But, look, I'll save you the trouble. Squat however you want. You don't need to convince coach Rip or anyone else your way is the right way. Nobody can or will stop you, you just won't be able to get much help from people who disagree with you.



I have flat, hard-soled shoes on in the video. The speed of my descent is my interpretation of "going down quickly, but in a controlled manner" from Starting Strength. I don't feel like I am dropping uncontrollably, but it still doesn't feel right.

Here are the videos I deleted and uploaded again. They have the same angle but the video is brighter:

warmup set 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTwVI1vVS30

work set 1: This video is gone because someone had walked in the way of the camera and blocked its view of my lifting.

work set 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvHiBY0_GuY

work set 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTVHzW_AvY

The whole movement just doesn't feel right. I have thought of the cue of pushing my knees out as I am going down to move the bar close to the middles of the feet (not horizontal movement I mean) but it feels much more natural to lean far forward while doing them.
Thank you for brighter the videos.

Your squats are 95% fine. They would improve if you looked at a spot on the floor about 6' in front of you rather than straight ahead. That will make it easier to drive your hips straight up rather than up and slightly back. And taking a narrower grip on the bar will make it easier to maintain upper back tightness, which will make the bar a bit more comfortable on your back. Your back angle is what it should be for your proportions and the low-bar athletic-stance technique you're using. It feels weird because it's not what you're used to.

The butt wink is insignificant. It comes from sacrificing a little intra-abdominal pressure and back tension for a little extra depth. Although there's nothing wrong with the amount of butt wink you have, if you want it to stop, don't go quite so far below parallel.

If you practice good form (head down, knees out, butt back, back arched, abs braced against a big breath) without weight, you'll feel a kind of bump stop when your hips reach full flexion, which will be just below parallel. If you force your way below that bump stop feeling, your back will flatten and eventually round to get you there.

Slowing your descent a little will make the correct bottom position feel more obvious. It's like punching through a piece of newspaper. If you slam into it, you barely notice as your fist plows through, but if you just touch it, it's clear when you make contact. Right now you're not descending too fast to control the weight on the way down, but you are descending too fast to feel the bottom of your squat perfectly. It'll be easier as you get stronger and you get used to the feel at the bottom.

[sgtmattbaker]

"And it's not that you ask too many questions or that you ask stupid questions, but rather you ask questions that suggest you want other people to do your thinking and your work for you."

Regarding my comment that I wouldn't have asked, it may have come across as rude, but really though, I did post the videos here because my own "thinking" was not cutting it.

Regardless, thank you for your analysis.

The only points the powerlifters I know gave for their head up deal was that if you look at the very best lifters all of them look straight ahead of up. Looking at the best lifters was also the argument for the weight being on the heels. You already posted your rebuttal to the "body follows the head" argument.

[Scott Rousseau]

One of the coaching cues used in Starting Strength is having a training partner, coach, homeless person, whomever, put their hand on your sacrum (lower back) and have you push up against it. This helps you to initiate hip drive. Try this exercise with an empty bar while looking down and then again while looking up or straight ahead. One will feel better.

Don't worry too much about the weight on the heels thing. Once you get everything else in order, physics is gonna settle that argument.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "it doesn't feel right." That may just be a matter of adapting to having heavy shit on your shoulders. It is not going to be comfortable.

Lastly, I would disagree with the notion that you can't reference Starting Strength to defend against an argument it already settles.

[sgtmattbaker]

I don't know of anyone that would be willing to touch my sacrum...

Regardless here are the squats I did today. I tried moving the angle to a different one, but my head position cannot really be seen now. I hope these videos are better. In my opinion they suck pretty badly. Take a look at the last rep of the last set specifically (it looks like a good morning/squat combo).


second to last warmup set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1JwonpFKbU
last warmup set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quRIhOYu3Bo
second work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjsqu9Rceaw
last set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP_hcYzyzTw

I don't know what the deal is, maybe my hips are too far back?

[Charles Staley]

This is a much better camera angle.

I watched the last warm up set BTW

Squats look fine, although because you're wearing a loose shirt not tucked in, I can't really see your lumbar posture. Depth is great.

My only comment is once you exit the rack, you spend too much time fiddling and fidgeting. Just step back left foot, then right, get your stance, and go. Learn to find your position faster.

Pretty good squats though



I don't know of anyone that would be willing to touch my sacrum...

Regardless here are the squats I did today. I tried moving the angle to a different one, but my head position cannot really be seen now. I hope these videos are better. In my opinion they suck pretty badly. Take a look at the last rep of the last set specifically (it looks like a good morning/squat combo).


second to last warmup set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1JwonpFKbU
last warmup set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quRIhOYu3Bo
second work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjsqu9Rceaw
last set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP_hcYzyzTw

I don't know what the deal is, maybe my hips are too far back?

[sgtmattbaker]

They look like good squats? Shouldn't my "extreme" back angle be of some concern? Also, it seems that as soon as I hit the "knees a couple inches higher than where the femur attaches to the pelvic bone" depth my chest falls forward and my hips go back a lot farther (I also see a butt wink that I don't think I used to have a couple months ago). Is this not a problem? Also, I feel like I am doing a lot of the lift with my back; maybe just because the low-bar requires a stronger back? I don't really feel like my hips or hamstrings are doing an awful lot in the movement.

Also I am unsure of bar position. Sometimes during lighter weights when I have the bar on the rear deltoid my left shoulder starts to have a sharp pain in it. It gets better as the weight is heavier but it still raises a concern. One thing I have tried doing is getting under the bar with a wider grip on it and before I lift the weight up walk my hands until I feel it is secure enough. I noticed during a couple of my sets yesterday that when the weight was really heavy I would slide my hands out wider on the bar after a couple reps, which is strange because that doesn't feel very secure at any other time.

I squat again tomorrow. If I were to post another video would you prefer for me to tuck in the bottom of the shirt so you can see lumbar posture?


Thank you.

[Rawr]

My only comment is once you exit the rack, you spend too much time fiddling and fidgeting. Just step back left foot, then right, get your stance, and go. Learn to find your position faster.

What is the problem with this? Not questioning you, just curious.

[Phil Stevens]

What is the problem with this? Not questioning you, just curious.

#1 wasted energy. Its energy expensive to stand there with a heavy load on you and keep proper position, and under a HEAVY load its going to be Much harder to stay tight and keep that breath in you. As the loads get VERY high you got to get that Biggest breath prior to putting the load on you and you have a limited amount of time.

The other the thing to mention is the mental aspect. Pause to long and you flat out start thinking to damn much and can talk your self out of a lift. Do the thinking prior to and after the lifts. That's what all the practice is for so when you lift its routine as fats crisp and efficient as it can be

[sgtmattbaker]

Here are my squats from yesterday from last warmup set to third work set.
I still feel like my back is doing way too much work; after the third set my lower back had tightened up so much that I could barely walk for about 10-15 minutes. It was if I had just done 5 consecutive "maxes" on good mornings or something similar. I didn't have my shirt tucked in so the lumbar posture could be seen during squats simply because it is uncomfortable and I think it would annoy me while lifting.

The second set I admit that I did not keep my lower back tight. Also, I am having trouble in general remembering to Valsalva.

The last rep of the third set the pause between the 4th and 5th rep was because my hands had slipped during the 4th rep. I had them placed on bar with my thumb over the bar and my hands slipped. So my palms were no longer in contact with the bar and my hands were now hooked over the bar; the only part of my arm contacting the bar was my forearms. Although, I was still able to have a relatively sturdy base for the bar and was able to complete the last rep. The last rep, strangely enough, looked like the best rep. Maybe I should move the bar position on my back up an inch or two to make my back angle a little closer towards vertical?

last warmup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9JTA_kSjgM

first work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvSeIbtxVKo

second work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwlsqwXdIyQ

third work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m94VXMunoEE

I really think my back angle should be more vertical. Even if it doesn't necessarily have to be, my back would probably be grateful if it was. If I look around youtube and look for Rippetoe squat videos, lots of people that are doing them correctly look like their back angle is closer to 45 degrees.
Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22-uQqP4us Her stance seems to be about 2-4 inches wider than shoulder width (from outside of heels to outside of heels; this is how I understand shoulder width stance) while mine is probably 2-4 inches narrower than shoulder width. Maybe I need a wider stance?

Thanks.

[Charles Staley]

OK, watched the last warm-up set video and it looks fine

You're massively overthinking things here, just train!


Here are my squats from yesterday from last warmup set to third work set.
I still feel like my back is doing way too much work; after the third set my lower back had tightened up so much that I could barely walk for about 10-15 minutes. It was if I had just done 5 consecutive "maxes" on good mornings or something similar. I didn't have my shirt tucked in so the lumbar posture could be seen during squats simply because it is uncomfortable and I think it would annoy me while lifting.

The second set I admit that I did not keep my lower back tight. Also, I am having trouble in general remembering to Valsalva.

The last rep of the third set the pause between the 4th and 5th rep was because my hands had slipped during the 4th rep. I had them placed on bar with my thumb over the bar and my hands slipped. So my palms were no longer in contact with the bar and my hands were now hooked over the bar; the only part of my arm contacting the bar was my forearms. Although, I was still able to have a relatively sturdy base for the bar and was able to complete the last rep. The last rep, strangely enough, looked like the best rep. Maybe I should move the bar position on my back up an inch or two to make my back angle a little closer towards vertical?

last warmup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9JTA_kSjgM

first work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvSeIbtxVKo

second work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwlsqwXdIyQ

third work set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m94VXMunoEE

I really think my back angle should be more vertical. Even if it doesn't necessarily have to be, my back would probably be grateful if it was. If I look around youtube and look for Rippetoe squat videos, lots of people that are doing them correctly look like their back angle is closer to 45 degrees.
Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22-uQqP4us Her stance seems to be about 2-4 inches wider than shoulder width (from outside of heels to outside of heels; this is how I understand shoulder width stance) while mine is probably 2-4 inches narrower than shoulder width. Maybe I need a wider stance?

Thanks.

[Charles Staley]

Because everyone has different limb lengths, everyone will have a different "ideal" squat. She's got shorter femurs than you do, which means she'll have a more upright squat that you will. It's all good




I really think my back angle should be more vertical. Even if it doesn't necessarily have to be, my back would probably be grateful if it was. If I look around youtube and look for Rippetoe squat videos, lots of people that are doing them correctly look like their back angle is closer to 45 degrees.
Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22-uQqP4us Her stance seems to be about 2-4 inches wider than shoulder width (from outside of heels to outside of heels; this is how I understand shoulder width stance) while mine is probably 2-4 inches narrower than shoulder width. Maybe I need a wider stance?

Thanks.

[Scott Rousseau]

Here are my squats from yesterday from last warmup set to third work set.
I still feel like my back is doing way too much work; after the third set my lower back had tightened up so much that I could barely walk for about 10-15 minutes. It was if I had just done 5 consecutive "maxes" on good mornings or something similar. I didn't have my shirt tucked in so the lumbar posture could be seen during squats simply because it is uncomfortable and I think it would annoy me while lifting.

Maybe I should move the bar position on my back up an inch or two to make my back angle a little closer towards vertical?

I really think my back angle should be more vertical. Even if it doesn't necessarily have to be, my back would probably be grateful if it was. If I look around youtube and look for Rippetoe squat videos, lots of people that are doing them correctly look like their back angle is closer to 45 degrees.

Her stance seems to be about 2-4 inches wider than shoulder width (from outside of heels to outside of heels; this is how I understand shoulder width stance) while mine is probably 2-4 inches narrower than shoulder width. Maybe I need a wider stance?



This really sounds like a case of just having too much weight on the bar. If you are at a weight that you cannot lift with what you are sure is correct form, it would be prudent to do a reset and work back up. If you cannot maintain a lordotic curve, you are asking for an injury. You may have just increased the weight a little too quickly.

If you move the bar up on your shoulders you increase the torque on the lower back. This will not help your situation.

The more questions you ask, the less it sounds like you have the book. If you don't it would save you alot of headaches to get it. Things like width of stance are covered in there.

[sgtmattbaker]

I have read the book and understood it when I read it. The shoulder width stance seems a bit wide when I put it into practice and the stance a couple inches narrower seems to seem a little more "natural". I can adapt it though. I can keep a lordotic curve under heavy weight, although it is a desperate struggle to do so and it has to be a conscious effort of squeezing the lower back through the entire lift. The weight I used I feel like I can lift without my back rounding, but at the expense of feeling like I demolished my back. My legs definitely could press it up though, even though it was difficult. I don't think I have had tighten up as bad as it did after the last work set of squats even after heavy deadlifts. That could either mean that a) I could be pulling more weight on the deadlift b) the back angle I have on the squat is too hard on my back or c) I don't know.

I have never understood the low-bar vs. high-bar on lower back torque. Having the bar lower means your back angle is going to be more horizontal than if you used a higher-bar which seems to make gravity want to push your torso down. If you have the bar higher, not necessarily to the other extreme of a high bar up at the base of your neck your back angle is closer to vertical than the low-bar position. If the back angle were the same and you were using a higher bar position the torque would definitely be greater, but I don't understand how a more vertical back angle is harder on the back.

All I know is I feel like I am lifting way too much of that with my back. Perhaps I should do a number of lighter sets tomorrow and watch form.

Thanks.

[Scott Rousseau]

Your squats are 95% fine. They would improve if you looked at a spot on the floor about 6' in front of you rather than straight ahead. That will make it easier to drive your hips straight up rather than up and slightly back. And taking a narrower grip on the bar will make it easier to maintain upper back tightness, which will make the bar a bit more comfortable on your back. Your back angle is what it should be for your proportions and the low-bar athletic-stance technique you're using. It feels weird because it's not what you're used to.

The butt wink is insignificant. It comes from sacrificing a little intra-abdominal pressure and back tension for a little extra depth. Although there's nothing wrong with the amount of butt wink you have, if you want it to stop, don't go quite so far below parallel.

If you practice good form (head down, knees out, butt back, back arched, abs braced against a big breath) without weight, you'll feel a kind of bump stop when your hips reach full flexion, which will be just below parallel. If you force your way below that bump stop feeling, your back will flatten and eventually round to get you there.

Slowing your descent a little will make the correct bottom position feel more obvious. It's like punching through a piece of newspaper. If you slam into it, you barely notice as your fist plows through, but if you just touch it, it's clear when you make contact. Right now you're not descending too fast to control the weight on the way down, but you are descending too fast to feel the bottom of your squat perfectly. It'll be easier as you get stronger and you get used to the feel at the bottom.

Don't go quite as deep, keep your chest up. This will fix the other 5% as Tuesday stated. Refer to Page 11 of SS for a picture (fig 2-4) of correct depth at the bottom. Do that.

[sgtmattbaker]

I will try that when I wake up in a few hours. I didn't notice my squats were that deep; they look like the crease is about 4 or 5 inches below the knees.

Somewhat off-topic but why do some people insist on doing squats so low that their hamstrings touch their calves? I don't see how you would have any balance that low, let alone any semblance of a tight back.

[Donald Lee]

I watched 2 videos you posted of your 3rd set. The last one was pretty bad. You were doing a good morning at the bottom. You are just asking for lower back pain. You definitely should reset with lower weights. Because the weight is too heavy, you end up caving forward and losing your arch. Your warmup set looks good, which means you just need to lower the weight.

[Donald Lee]

Squat to just below parallel. The lower you go with the low bar squat, the harder it is to keep your arch. People go really low on the Olympic squat because they're training for the Olympic lifts. They also squat with a high bar. Try going that low with the low bar squat. It's impossible to keep your back arch.

Stick with the way you're squatting, and read through the book again.