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Thread: Barbell Training is Big Medicine

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by themetalgod View Post
    I have to disagree with the Dr.I'l use the easiest example first and that is Jack Lallane.
    Setting aside that you have misapprehended the point, what does your crystal ball tell us about Jack Lallane's lifespan in the alternate universe where he was a mildly overweight accountant in Poughkeepsie? Since some fat accountants in Poughkeepsie live to be 90, and since some athletes croak in their fifties, I'd be interested to know. Also, can you tell us what would have happened if Grouchy had come to Waterloo, or if Oswald had missed?

    Where is the prospective, randomized, longitudinal data showing that humans who count their blueberries and work out live substantially longer lifespans as a result?

    Even if we accept the Framingham data, is it clear to you that it shows an association, not a cause and effect relationship, and has absolutely no bearing on the point you bring to issue?

    less than truthful
    Be careful, here. Be berry, berry careful.
    Last edited by Jonathon Sullivan; 05-07-2015 at 03:48 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by themetalgod View Post
    I have to disagree with the Dr.I'l use the easiest example first and that is Jack Lallane. Lallane proved that by exercising and living a clean life from alcohol,cigarettes and obesity that you "can" extend your life and to say otherwise would be less than truthful.Have people lived longer who didn't follow his example....yes,but less then those who have followed it.The Japanese have proved that a diet high in seafood rich in omega 3 acids can extend your life.Also, look at the Frammington heart study done in Massachusetts.Those who had higher HDL,lower LDL,Less inflammation markers such a C-reactive protein lived longer lives.It's also true that a controlled carbohydrate diet and a calorie restricted diet can also extend you life.Remember,there are no guarantees in life but if you follow sound information your more likely to live longer.
    ...Don't really care about living longer...

    And before you ask: at present there is absolutely no solid evidence that strength training—or any other exercise or dietary program—will substantially prolong our life spans. But the preponderance of the scientific evidence, flawed as it is, strongly indicates that we can change the trajectory of decline. We can recover functional years that would otherwise have been lost. There is much talk in the aging studies community about “compression of morbidity,” a shortening of the dysfunctional phase of the death process. Instead of slowly getting weaker and sicker and circling the drain in a protracted, painful descent that can take hellish years or even decades, we can squeeze our dying into a tiny sliver of our life cycle. Instead of slowly dwindling into an atrophic puddle of sick fat, our death can be like a failed last rep at the end of a final set of heavy squats. We can remain strong and vital well into our last years, before succumbing rapidly to whatever kills us. Strong to the end.

  3. #153
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    @Dr Sullivan:
    So regarding the effect of (proper or not) strength training on expected life span, does the data suggest strength training has negligible effects on altering life span, or is it that there isn't enough data to even make a semi-decent inference on it's effect?

    Would be nice to have something to say besides "reducing morbidity" in a discussion about strength training vs. cardio, because people seem to associate reduction of morbidity with all training in general anyway, so the simplified equation in people's heads are then cardio: heart health + reduced morbidity > strength training: reduced morbidity. In any discussion I have with my family about this, I'm left being the odd one out while they consider cardio more important for health, and I seem like the fool. Might be I just can't argue my case well enough, but it's a tricky proposition to switch for people it seems.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by perman View Post
    so the simplified equation in people's heads are then cardio: heart health + reduced morbidity > strength training: reduced morbidity.
    So, you don't see anything wrong with this proposed inequality? That's your homework. Hint: what constitutes "morbidity?"

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    So, you don't see anything wrong with this proposed inequality? That's your homework. Hint: what constitutes "morbidity?"
    Well, bad health and reduced function right? I'd say to most people that jogging is associated with improving both and that most people won't accept strength training helps more because "jogging strengthens your legs too" or something. Anyways, I'm asking something unreasonable of you, you can't give me a soundbite that can change pre-conseptions easily. Opinions and notions are more ingrained than that.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by perman View Post
    Well, bad health and reduced function right? I'd say to most people that jogging is associated with improving both and that most people won't accept strength training helps more because "jogging strengthens your legs too" or something. Anyways, I'm asking something unreasonable of you, you can't give me a soundbite that can change pre-conseptions easily. Opinions and notions are more ingrained than that.
    Okay, fine. How's this for an elevator pitch:

    Aging is associated with a decline in all physical performance attributes, including strength, power, mobility, balance, endurance and healthy body composition. Of these, strength is the most fundamental, because it is by definition the ability to exert a force against an external resistance, without which ability all the other attributes are essentially meaningless. The loss of strength as we age is pronounced, and tracks a corresponding atrophy or loss of lean tissue, particularly muscle and bone. This has a profound impact on metabolic health and our ability to withstand illness and injury. A long-term resistance training program with barbells increases not only strength, but all the other physical performance attributes, improving power (the first derivative of strength), mobility, balance, and endurance performance. It promotes healthy body composition by reducing visceral fat and increasing lean mass. And while it has not been shown to increase certain surrogate, non-patient-oriented markers of cardiovascular fitness, the data on this point is incomplete and of poor quality. In any case, the addition of minimal high-intensity conditioning work to a strength training program seems to address cardiovascular fitness as well as LSD and in less time. Thus, a program of strength training with some high-intensity conditioning work constitutes a comprehensive exercise prescription specifically targeted to the needs of the aging adult.

    That's reasonable, concise, and true. But since reason, concision and truth don't work on stupid people (see: American political culture), it may not do you much good. Let us know.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    That's reasonable, concise, and true. But since reason, concision and truth don't work on stupid people (see: American political culture), it may not do you much good. Let us know.
    Thanks for the reply. Not on a mission though, just musing here, so I won't really have some status report to come back with.

    My mom and sister happen to be physical therapists who don't believe in lifting weights in the same vein of what's often denigrated here about physical therapists (despite neither ever having done it properly). As such, they are "experts" while I'm just a dude who's risking my body lifting too heavy weight (my mom for instance has the stock response of "that's too heavy" whenever I brag of my squat or deadlift weight). May test some lines from here, though I doubt it will carry much weight.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sully's article View Post
    our death can be like a failed last rep at the end of a final set of heavy squats
    That certainly resonates. A wonderful article, thanks Sully.

  9. #159
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    This recent Cell Metabolism paper might interest you as describing a possible example of a molecular mechanism by which strength training is Big Medicine (assuming strength training stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis, and thus this peptide as well).

    Lee et al. "The Mitochondrial-Derived Peptide MOTS-c Promotes Metabolic Homeostasis and Reduces Obesity and Insulin Resistance." 2015. Cell Metabolism 21 (pp 443-454).

  10. #160
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    starting strength coach development program
    Barbells are still working still kicking diabetes ass. A1c 5.5 boom

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