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Thread: Squat Mechanics: A Clarification

  1. #1
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    Default Squat Mechanics: A Clarification

    by Mark Rippetoe

    Every seminar we hold is attended by people who have read the book, who have been training with the material for various lengths of time, and who are interested enough in what we have to say that they have paid money to hear it from us directly. Yet every Saturday morning’s squat session on the platform involves deprogramming the too-vertical back angle of essentially everybody who attends. Almost everybody. Why?

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    Original discussion on Rip's Q&A

  2. #2

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    Look, Rip, you've certainly made an impact in the entire world with starting strength. It changed my life as I was studying to become a personal trainer. But there is an inherent fallacy by repeating the low bar, low chest squat is superior in all aspects. Below I've linked most of the world's raw squat record holders

    Ray Williams Squatting 1052 (477.5kg) // World Record // Arnold Classic 2017 - YouTube

    Eric Lilliebridge - 914 lb Raw Squat, No Knee Wraps @ 306 lbs (415@138.8 kgs) - YouTube

    Dennis Cornelius - 821 lb Raw Squat, no Wraps @ 270 lbs - YouTube

    Amit Sapir Sets World Record in Raw Squat - YouTube

    Alexey Nikulin 82,5 kg All-Time Record Squat 345kg/760lbs - YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfXmAm6_xA

  3. #3
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    One of the most fundamental logic errors is that of correlation/cause and effect confusion.

    Starting Strength Seminars

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    Prior to 1965, every collegiate and Olympic high jumper used the straddle method. It's a good thing that Dick Fosbury didn't think "every champion now is doing it" was an argument in favor of the method.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodie Butland View Post
    Prior to 1965, every collegiate and Olympic high jumper used the straddle method. It's a good thing that Dick Fosbury didn't think "every champion now is doing it" was an argument in favor of the method.
    The "flop" is cheating just like Sumo, plus it's stupid. Would you jump a fence by landing on your neck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skid View Post
    The "flop" is cheating just like Sumo, plus it's stupid. Would you jump a fence by landing on your neck?
    1. You don't land on your neck; you land on your back on a large cushion.
    2. Cheating means you break the rules. If sumo of the flop allows you to either move more weight or get over a higher bar, then what's the problem.
    3. The purpose of hopping a fence is to get into the yard, not get over the tallest fence.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skid View Post
    The "flop" is cheating just like Sumo, plus it's stupid. Would you jump a fence by landing on your neck?
    No. Then again, if I had a need to go over top of a fence (which need has been entirely obviated pretty much my entire life thanks to the advent of gates), I wouldn't be jumping head first over it, assiduously avoiding making any contact with the top of the fence whatsoever.

  8. #8
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    For you two dummies I'll bring out the crayons and provide a scenario:

    Due to your clumsy legal defense, 14 year old Billy is getting the electric chair for stealing a candy bar. His older powerlifting brother Leeroy is totally pissed at you and chases you out of the courtroom. As you run across the courthouse lawn you see a hedge (with no gate) that you need to jump over if you are to escape Leeroy. You try the "flop", as you know it is the superior way to leap tall obstacles. Expecting a cushioned landing just like track day, you land on your neck and break it. Leeroy leaps the hedge with ease and lands on his feet. As Leeroy catches up he notes you are now a quad, but still decides to sue you for your incompetent defense of his brother. He gets your prized Barbie doll collection. You sit in your wheel chair drooling.

    Yep, the flop is just stupid

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skid View Post
    For you two dummies I'll bring out the crayons and provide a scenario:

    Due to your clumsy legal defense, 14 year old Billy is getting the electric chair for stealing a candy bar.
    Can't execute anyone for non-homicide crimes. Kennedy v. Louisiana.

    Can't execute anyone under 18. Roper v. Simmons.

    Ohio only has lethal injection.

    I don't do criminal trial work.


    His older powerlifting brother Leeroy is totally pissed at you and chases you out of the courtroom.
    Fortunately we know from the great contributions of posters like bcleeroy, Marengha, Berserker, and others that powerlifters are slow, musclebound, get out of breath tying their shoes, and are basically walking heart attacks. So I should be able to evade Leeroy just by briskly walking. Worst case, I'll pull a protein bar out of my bag and throw it in the opposite direction, and Leeroy's bro brain will instantly be distracted from me.


    As you run across the courthouse lawn you see a hedge (with no gate) that you need to jump over if you are to escape Leeroy.
    I work in downtown Cleveland. The courthouses don't have lawns or hedges.


    You try the "flop", as you know it is the superior way to leap tall obstacles.
    No, it's the superior way to leap over a bar in a high jump track and field event with post-1965 rules on cushioning.


    Expecting a cushioned landing just like track day, you land on your neck and break it.
    No, I land on my back and get the wind knocked out of me.


    Leeroy leaps the hedge with ease and lands on his feet.
    No he can't...he's a slow, musclebound powerlifter who couldn't accelerate fast enough to leap the hedge. Do you even Rip Q&A????


    As Leeroy catches up he notes you are now a quad, but still decides to sue you for your incompetent defense of his brother. He gets your prized Barbie doll collection.
    He can't sue for that. He lacks standing. Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife.


    You sit in your wheel chair drooling.
    So I'll just become a plaintiff's attorney. Not too bad of a life.


    Yep, the flop is just stupid
    Clearly my logic is superior, and therefore the flop is not stupid.

  10. #10
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    Touche

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