Squats and Your Knees

[stef]

by Mark Rippetoe

The idea that below-parallel squats are bad for the knees is complete nonsense which, for some reason that escapes me, will not go away. This mythology is mindlessly repeated by orthopedic surgeons, physical therapists, registered nurses, personal trainers, dieticians, sportscasters, librarians, lunch-room monitors, and many other people in positions of authority with no actual knowledge of the topic, and therefore no basis in fact for their opinion.

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[Sherm Churlish]

Is there any disadvantage to using the bar catches to gauge your squat depth? I have a hard time telling how deep I am.

[Mark Rippetoe]

There are several disadvantages, the worst being that you can touch the bar to the catches with your hips above parallel by doing a goodmorning.

[Sherm Churlish]

Huh, so I might lean forward so far that I'd get the bar to the "right" depth, but I wouldn't be below parallel. If I'm working out alone, it's seeming like recording and reviewing clips might be the best way. Thanks for the response.

[danlightbulb]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the article. I hope I don't get ridiculed for commenting what Im about to comment, because I genuinely like the squat and the satisfaction of continuing to progress with heavier weights, and intend to get back to it soon.

I did hurt my knees whilst I was squatting - but it was my fault. I didn't have access to a coach (UK), and successfully got my squat up to 120kg from practically nothing. However I started to hit a limit, and was pushing very very hard (and eating loads too) but in hindsight I was overtrained. I pushed very hard over a series of sessions trying to break through 125kg and felt my right knee twinge, then shortly after, the left much worse. They've not been quite right since, I get terrible patella tendon inflamation whenever I do any form of impact exercise (eg running), or when the knee is loaded. From self diagnosis over a period of time (using the internet, yes not ideal but doctors here are rubbish with this sort of thing), I possibly have chronic patella tendonitis, where the tendon fibres have ruptured then healed in a haphazard fashion (think twisted elastic bands) so they easily get irritated. This is different to transient tendonitis, which heals with rest. Twisted tendon fibres can't heal back straight, from what I've read on the subject. I have dabbled in the squat since my injury and seen a SS coach in London on a couple of occasions, I discovered I was squatting too narrow.

So here is one comment. When the book says shoulder width, that's actually got some leeway I discovered. I was squatting at what I thought was shoulder width. But I also have long legs in proportion to my torso and because Im small framed I have narrow shoulder width relative to my height. So I should have been squatting quite a bit wider, heels outside of shoulder width rather than in line with shoulder width. From the top looking down, this seems very wide but is where I should have been. The stance that was slightly too narrow also meant I went too deep and was bouncing off my knees. Even though I did use the TUBOW trick, my knees were also not set as far back as they should have been, driven by the too narrow stance and my odd proportions.

Problem is that I did do some damage, so I don't know whether, even if I now squat with good form, whether I will still get patella inflamation. At one stage a couple of years ago I could barely sit down, it is much better now though so I am tempted to try building my squat back up again because I do recognise how great a full body exercise it is.

The other comment I would like to make, is that not everyone has good joints and bones. I may well be in the 1%ile in that regard, displaying some traits similar to marfans - i.e long thin limbs, long tendons and underdeveloped muscles. I have a high riding patella, which it seems has led to underdevelopment of the quad muscles in my legs when I was growing up. However I was also malnourished as a child, so it could be that my physical development suffered during adolesence causing the current physical characteristics I have. But whatever the underlying cause, I am not 'average'.

Possibly this means that I will always be succeptable to injuries of this type and that my ultimate strength potential is alot lower than your typical trainee. It is very difficult to get advice on what adaptations I should make to my training to allow for this, because to be honest when I have asked in the forum about this in the past it is met with the normal responses of 'NDTP, not eating enough' etc etc. I recognise that many here may dismiss this as theoretical or unneccessary overthinking bullshit (I have been around here a while lol), nevertheless I think if you, as an experienced strength coach seeing all sorts of people over the years, was to see how my knee and other joints are constructed in person (a photo or video doesn't do it justice really), then perhaps you would have a different view. Maybe, maybe not. Of course I wouldn't expect you to cater for the 1% who do have genuine physical issues in your book or forum, but I think its fair to recognise that they exist, may have a desire to train and get stronger, and may need adaptations to the teaching advice that you use for your more avergae individuals.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and what I percieve about my own body is not the limitation it appears to be. I really don't know. I'd be very interested in finding out if you or your other coaches have trained people who were at the extreme end of thin, at the extreme end of limb lengths, who were oddly proportioned in terms of torso vs legs, or who perhaps were malnourished growing up for whatever reason and didn't develop fully. What advice you would give in that situation?

Best regards, keep up the good work.
Dan

[Mark Rippetoe]

What advice you would give in that situation?

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