Mike's YNDTP program

[manveer]

michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif

[MBasic]

michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif

Rip will take some obscure thing I said in that post to take the conversation somewhere else.
. . .probably that Max has the wrist thing wrong; or internal/external rotation of the shoulder is incorrect.

Except for the SSfanboi quote (directed at Wilson, not Rip); I thought this was a pretty civil response.

[manveer]

this picture is for reference only . . .)

"for reference"

Rip will take some obscure thing I said in that post to take the conversation somewhere else.
. . .probably that Max has the wrist thing wrong; or internal/external rotation of the shoulder is incorrect.

Except for the SSfanboi quote (directed at Wilson, not Rip); I thought this was a pretty civil response.

Yeah. Your criticism is valid. Also more wild assumptions later in the thread:

I'm going to guess that Max is comparing squat strength to the snatch. Probably a mistake. A lot of factors are involved.

[continued criticism based on this assumption]

JTS guys have a few ideas that seem strange to me (related to PL, I don't know shit about WL), but on the whole they put out really good info.

[MBasic]

"for reference"

Moar reference illustrations, for science !
Instagram

Yeah. Your criticism is valid. Also more wild assumptions later in the thread:
JTS guys have a few ideas that seem strange to me (related to PL, I don't know shit about WL), but on the whole they put out really good info.

I think Max has a weird obsession with a knees forward squat for Oly lifters.
Which is a weird thing to even say.
He over cues that IMO. That doesn't work for everybody.

The Programming concepts videos put out by Max and Chad are real good IMO; PL or WL-wise.

That mobility diva they have, Dr.Quinn is a total quack . . . he's a half a step behind Starrett.

Could do without the Meg Squats girl. Just trying to get views/attention.

I guess some of their best Oly lifters are leaving (Colin Burns; his GF; and another, name escapes me.)

Which bring me around to. . . . I'd hate to be a (good) OL coach in this day and age.
Lifters (society in general) seem like narcissistic fucktards . . . (see 'ref' photos above)
Hoping from coach to coach all the time. Some of these guy change every 1-2 years?
Remote internet coaching has enabled this to a large degree I guess;
How good can this work? I mean in the context of a nationally ranked Oly lifter.

[MBasic]

7-22-2017. SAT. W2D2

-PUSH PRESS-
.95 2x5; 135x3; 160x3; 185x3; 210x1
.227½x3 crushing me all to shit
.205 4x5 ...failed very last rep

-SNATCH HIGH PULL-
. 105x5; 155x5; 205 10s x 2r

-DIPS-
.BW+10#: 4X12...barely did last rep
-------------------------------------------

2 hrs later at boy's gym
-HBBS- slight pause
20 3*5; 50*5; 80*3; 110*3; 135*1

[MBasic]

7-24-2017 MON. W2D3

-CLEAN & JERK-
. Rx is (1+1) x 10 singles at a challenging weight
. wu: 95(3+3); 135(3+3); 160(2+2); 185(1+1); 210(1+1)
. 235 @ rpe "shit, feelz heavy"
. 235 @ rpe "fuck, isn't getting any easier"
. 235 @ rpe "better, but maybe you should only 5 singles, then some lite front squats"
. 235 @ rpe "yeah, you're gonna burn out your CNS, do the light front squats"
. 235 @ rpe "wasn't so bad, you're half way thru, you can do it, try one more, then decide . . . pussy"
. 235 @ rpe "yeah, I can do it, these feel ok, consistent"
. 235 @ rpe "that's it, I'm gonna do a comp"
. 235 @ rpe "shit, I'm going to do 315# in a few months . . . this is awesome"
. 235 @ rpe "oh fuck my chest is collapsing and the bar is slipping off one shoulder!!! I hate this. WTF!"
. 235 @ rpe got psyched, did it pretty good, legs smoked, so butt shot out some of course
. no shit though, that 9th rep I did not like; so I went again in about 1:40 like a meet (having to repeat); I used some arousal/psyche for that one.
. the power jerks were all ok except maybe one elbow on one . . .but still probably woulda passed 2/3.
. For reference: I've done 235 3s x 2r for a clean only before; C&J 3sx1r . . . so this is sorta PR
. next week at 240 should tell me something

-TALL/VERY HIGH HANG SNATCH-
. 95x3; 120x3; 145x3; 155x3; 165 x3 (miss 1); 170x3 (miss 1)
. but these were all super crisp . . for me anyways

-ROLL OUTS-
. 4x8

BW= 216.6 after

This was about rep #7; cutting off my pull again, but I sorta don't care.
Also, this is using the cue "super slow first pull". So the above doesn't matter.
My front squat is the problem.

[Dave Wilson]

Posting this here, becuz either Mark won't post it, OR will post it like two days from now, on the week end, at midnight. . . .
. . . I sent at 7:02 Pacific Time 7-21-2017

More bullshit:



I lol'd.

Mark doesn't like when people misquote him, or take things out of context, or paraphrase incorrectly.

We should extend the same courtesy to others.

Someone asked Max about the cue "turn it over" in the catch.
So an instagram post of a fairly jacked female 75kg kilo lifter who is at the very limit of her weight class doing the snatch . . .
. . . and Max's preceding paragraph about her wrist position and shoulder rotation providing a more solid catch position . . .
. . . and how these little tweaks can add a few kgs to a person total, at that person's same given strength level at that time . . .
(lifter is a 31+ y.o x-crossfitter who came to WL'ing late in life; her technique could stand to improve I'm sure)

So all the above gets distilled down to 'they' said: "strength isn't very important" and "technique conquers all" by Mr. Wilson???
Solid work!



__________________________________________________ ________________________________________



__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

clearly, she's been neglecting her strength work; or should I say, need to do moar, bulk up, etc . . . she's a waif:
(this didn't go in Mark's post; this picture is for reference only . . .)

At what point did I say she neglected strength work? I don't see why you needed to call me a SS fan boy either, I'm always interested in having a civil discussion. I will admit I don't really know anything about Olympic Weightlifting, and you seem like someone that is passionate about the subject. Rather than attacking me, why not give me your perspective? I may actually learn something about the sport, but that can't happen if I get a snarky response from you.

[MBasic]

At what point did I say she neglected strength work?

More or less here:

When did Weightlifting coaches decide strength wasn't very important in a strength sport like weightlifting? What caused them to believe that technique conquers all? When did this shift in coaching principles for US weightlifting begin?

She would be a product of her coach and coaching, no?

I don't see why you needed to call me a SS fan boy either, I'm always interested in having a civil discussion.

Rip has called me a "Jon North Fan boy" before, for no reason whatsoever (one could say I think North is a douchebag) . . . so I guess I learned this behavior from him.
I'll admit, I typed and UN-typed "Fanboi" three times while drafting that. So I apologize. Your post seemed like typical Rip Fanboism.

I will admit I don't really know anything about Olympic Weightlifting, and you seem like someone that is passionate about the subject. Rather than attacking me, why not give me your perspective? I may actually learn something about the sport, but that can't happen if I get a snarky response from you.

Rip has built a USAW strawman that says, "strength isn't that important" or "technique conquers all" . . . you gave that same narrative.
It's 99% false. Many of the long time, respectable coaches know the classic lifts won't go up without basic strength improving.
I cannot find a USAW coach that doesn't think strength is very important.
Strength without good technique doesn't work though, you'll find plenty of USAW AND International coaches who think that.
I'd say some successful countries are FAR worse at being technique whores than the USA.
The US coaches know how to program for strength.

Its very very hard to succeed at the international level when the USAW is handicapped by USADA.
This is why we're not as "strong". No amount of prioritizing strength training and throwing technique out the window is going to close that gap.
Shane Hamman was probably the strongest human being on earth; and couldn't finish better than 7th in the Olympics.
Maybe if he grew up doing the sport (start at 10-12), and did it his whole life, maybe he would of been a champion.

He thinks this (lack for strength programming) is the one of main reasons why the USAW can't compete at international levels.
. . . . despite all of the other glaring problems (drugs, no national system, USA's lucrative pro sports taking athletes away).
So many of his follower follow into this trap.
USAW stink at WL'ing.
Rip says is the USAW coaches.
So its true then, because USAW does suck? like Rip said?

We suck because:
40% drugs/PEDs
35% athlete selection (college scholarships in football, soccer, wrestling, Track, gymnastics, etc etc etc are worth more)
20% no national system (clubs, comps, pay $, stipends, etc etc, finding athletes, etc)
5% limited weightlifting culture.

. . .those, +/-10% ...here or there.

[Dave Wilson]

40% drugs/PEDs.

Sounds like we need to get stronger to compete with the rest of the world. No?

[MBasic]

Sounds like we need to get stronger to compete with the rest of the world. No?

Yes. And everyone is trying.
One can only get so strong so fast.
But, unfortunately, we are never going close that gap.
These countries have be CAUGHT giving drugs to minors, not alleged...CAUGHT. And CAUGHT giving girls at the end of puberty PEDs/male hormones.

I think what Rip would say, is ....

AT A ADVANCED LEVEL...if all the classic lifts practice (technique work) is interfering with a lifters strength progress...then that stuff could be dialed back to allow strength to go up.

Everyone knows this that I've talked to..or read about ....not a lot...but a few. Everyone I know squats and pulls many times a week at decent percentages and volume.

Also, what is sorta ironic about your post in Rip's QA....is that Max is a fairly strong guy.....worked under Ivan Abediev(sp) for several years....Rip has 'a thing' for that old Bulgarian coach, like he was a genius. Is referenced in PP 3, ....Max doesn't program his weight lifters like that tho....seems more like Russian/Periodazation programming instead of what Ivan did. So Max can see that's not going to work without the drugs. Max is affiliated with JTS/Powerlifting circles....knows how to program for, and appreciate the value of strength. But yet, from what I seen his lifters train, it's not all that different that what other USAW lifters are doing. At least, that the impression I get on the surface.

Funny, the more you dig thru the old SS posts, you'll find alot of praise for Abdjiev, Broz gym, etc. But it always ends in some kind of link to drugs.