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Thread: Combining running with strength training?

  1. #1
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    Default Combining running with strength training?

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    Mark,

    Thanks for your books. I am really indebted to you for exposing me to serious training.

    Background: I'm 5'8, 23 y.o, a little over 200 lbs, and have been following SS for about three months. I just reset squats for the second time, after nearly getting 3 sets of 5 reps at 325 lbs (previously I had reset at 315 lbs). Some of my recent struggles relate to a need to increase my caloric intake (though I am religiously following gomad).

    I have agreed to do a 6 mile race called toughmudder, which involves running through mud, climbing walls, crawling under barbed wire, hills, cold water, etc. I realize that training for it might somewhat derail my overall fitness goals, but the race looks like a one in a life time opportunity and I think I would have fun completing it. To train to complete race, I am going to train myself to run 6 miles, and then on race day, I hope adrenaline will carry me the rest of the way. Right now, I suck at running.

    What's the best way to eat and train for this race while incorporating strength? I was hoping to run 3 times per week, with two of the runs under 25 minutes and with one longer run per week, increasing by about a mile per week, until I am able to run 6 miles. Strength would follow the wichita falls template, except I would avoid deadlifting every week, and instead opt for every other week (I just reset my dead from 355 to 320).

    Program would look something like this:

    Monday Squat
    Tuesday Cleans, Overhead Press Sub 25 minute Run
    Wednesday
    Thursday Squat, Pullups
    Friday Bench Sub 25 minute Run
    Saturday Increasingly long runs, eventually reaching 6 miles.
    Sunday

    Monday Squat, Overhead Press
    Tuesday Deadlift Sub 25 minute run
    Wednesday
    Thursday Squat, Chinups
    Friday Bench Sub 25 minute run
    Saturday Increasingly long runs, eventually reaching 6 miles
    Sunday

    Will this work? If I increase my food intake, can I maintain or slightly increase my strength if I'm doing this much running? What are your thoughts? I think it's a solid plan, but am not nearly hubristic enough to procede without getting the input of those who are more knowledgeable than I am.

  2. #2
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    How do you know that you can't run 6 miles now? And what is this amazing opportunity? Are 6-mile obstacle runs about to be made illegal?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    How do you know that you can't run 6 miles now? And what is this amazing opportunity? Are 6-mile obstacle runs about to be made illegal?
    1. I know I can't because I tried. My body just isn't acclimated to running right now and it hurts the hell out of me to run for more than a mile.

    2. This is the only mud-race/obstacle course near me this year. This year, I know have time to train for such a race. I am planning on entering a brutal graduate program next year and am not so sure I will have time to weight train AND train for a race.

    3. I doubt that 6-mile runs will be made legal, but as our increasingly litigious society becomes an ever more proverbial nanny state, I wouldn't rule it out.

    So what do you think? Will six weeks of training according to the plan I outlined be a reasonable program? I know your position on low intensity cardio, but assuming I'm going to do the race, is this a reasonable way to approach strength training?

  4. #4
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    Since this program is only using squats twice/week, it should work. We'll ask the folks who have done this more recently than I have.

  5. #5
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    My lifting numbers are similar to yours. After SS for 6 months, I took 8 weeks to train for a relay race where I ran 3 five mile nuns in 24 hours. I followed a plan very similar to yours, and it worked well. Make the short runs fast and don't be afraid to cut volume on your lifting if need be. I made good progress on Squats and my dead stayed even, more or less.

    First two weeks of running sucked big time, but after that I got into the groove. For me, I ran the race the best I have in three years of doing it, with less fatigue. Another 2 weeks of running would have helped, but overall a success.

  6. #6
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    On more thing to add - I had success with making my short runs a 5 minute tempo interval (race pace) with a 1 minute rest. The first week, two of those were tough. I added one per week, and by the time I did 4 5/1 intervals I could have done 6 miles.

    For the long run, don't worry about the pace.

    Have fun.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skuhr View Post
    My lifting numbers are similar to yours. After SS for 6 months, I took 8 weeks to train for a relay race where I ran 3 five mile nuns in 24 hours. I followed a plan very similar to yours, and it worked well. Make the short runs fast and don't be afraid to cut volume on your lifting if need be. I made good progress on Squats and my dead stayed even, more or less.

    First two weeks of running sucked big time, but after that I got into the groove. For me, I ran the race the best I have in three years of doing it, with less fatigue. Another 2 weeks of running would have helped, but overall a success.
    Thanks for the advice, man. Did you increase your calorie intake an appreciable amount while running? The last thing I want is to lose weight and if I can gain weight and strength while training I would strongly prefer it

  8. #8
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    There are many instances of people on this forum that have done Starting Strength and then gone back to CrossFit or other "metcon" type workouts very easily with no problems...I am not one of those people.

    I did SS for about 4 months and gained about 26 lbs and added a ton of strength to all my lifts. Now that I am back to doing some metcon, it is sucking big time...worse I am sure than most people experience. I am not complaining, I just think you should realize that results will vary...most people on this forum are much better athletes than I am. My point is, keep working at it and don't expect miraculous results. If they happen, consider them a gift.

    Also, if you are at the stage that you cannot run 1 mile without stopping, you don't even have a base level of metcon fitness. Focusing on that, if you want to run this silly race may be prudent. As far as specific running programs that will not interfere with your strength gains, I leave that to the experts on this site. But, to get better at running you have to....run.

  9. #9
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    Depending on your training advancement and if you were getting nervous about the second squat day interfering, you could always do some dynamic effort squats (or speed squats if that makes more sense). They are useful in other programs when a regular squat day (be it a novice's 3 sets of five, or an intermediate's intensity day) would create too much stress to recover from.

  10. #10
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    strongdaniel, your plan for training for the race looks reasonable, including your goal to run six miles before doing the race given that you have some trouble with running. However, make your longest run a week or two before the race--not the week of the race so your body has time to adapt. In the event you don't quite get to six in your training, don't sweat it. Consistently putting in some miles should prepare you for this, and, as you say, andreneline will help the day of the race. Long distance running, however, is counter productive to strength training--which may show in your training, but of course keep lifting.

    I ran one of those races years ago in Tustin (Calif), I believe. They called it a Volkslauf.

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