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Thread: Starting Strength and Parkinson's

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xultrarunner View Post
    I haven't posted before because the search function answered all my questions and I did not have much to say. But, what has happened to me may help others. By way of background, I am 6 months short of 70 and a long term ultra trail runner. Before starting strength, at 5'8" I weight 140 lb and had a 13.5 inch neck. Then summer of 2011, I noticed my right hand shake at rest. A quick Wikipedia search suggested Parkinson's that was quickly confirmed by a neurologist. It turns out the tremor is the least worrisome aspect of this disease. Bradykinesia (moving slowly) is a huge problem - feels like moving through molasses. When you want to start to move, you can freeze as if your feet are rooted to the ground. The only way around this is to fall forward and catch yourself. Eccentric contractions lead to cog wheeling. It made going down stairs very difficult. Muscle atrophy is a huge problem. I am right handed and that was the part of my body most impaired. I could hardly sign my name.

    A quick internet search showed the importance of exercise and youtube videos on the are impressive. However, more hours running slowly through the woods would not help! I found this forum and Starting Strength and it made a lot of sense. I got with the Program. Now, about a year and a half later, I have gone from 140 to 170 lb and still gain a pound or so a month. Neck size when from 13.5 to 16 inches. On the Rippetoe Kilgore age standards, I have hit intermediate for the bench, squat and deadliest. On my favorite lift, I do much better and am half way between advanced and elite.

    At this point, I have finished the novice program and plan to focus on the OHP, partly because I find I have done well with it. However, the other reason is that this lift had a very dramatic impact on the typical stooped over posture of Parkinson's. I would dearly love to get as close as I can to body weight by my 70th birthday. My wife thinks this is not reasonable, but I tell her I see no value in being reasonable.

    The bradykinesia is gone. The cog wheeling has also gone. I still have a mild tremor in my right hand and the grip on that hand limits my deadlift.

    If there is interest, I can flesh this out in greater detail.
    More...specifically, if you have the time, I would love to read an article. Start with where you started, your starting weights, road blocks you hit, doctors input along the way, etc.

  2. #12
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    First, let's deal with long slow distance running. Yes, it was part of the problem. I live in the southern end of the Appalachian mountains. The weather is mild and the forrest beautiful any time of year. My standard practice was to go out Saturday morning. I would fill a Camelback with energy drink and a couple of balance bars and head out for 3-5 hours of steady slow running through the woods. The trails are rocky, there were always windfalls to climb and streams to ford. As a result, the pace was typically 12-15 miles an hour. This type of exercise is enormously catabolic. Muscle and fat just melt away. As an additional problem, within the distance running community, it is received wisdom that you should keep your weight to 2 pounds per inch in height. Both of these factors exacerbated the Parkinson's: muscle atrophy and weight loss are serious problems with this disease and I suffered from both problems. Also, speed work definitely helps Parkinson's and LSD keeps you from doing what you really need to do.

    The problems really go deep - the goal is to have no muscle that you do not need for the task at hand. Even leg muscles, beyond a certain point, get in the way. At long slow distances, for humans 50% of the energy comes from elastic recoil from the plantar fascia and calf tendons. A little known fact is that per pound, humans can cover a mile at half the energy cost of a horse for example. Also, because breathing is not linked directly to the running stride, heat loss is better. There is a 50 mile race held each year where men and horse compete. Humans will commonly win because of these issues. Even now, I am amazed at what the human body can adapt to do in this sphere. It is true that any reasonably healthy 20 - 30 year old can run a marathon with less than a year of training.

    While this is possible, I now think it is clear that it is not a good idea to do this if you value your long term health even if you do not have Parkinson's. Distance runners are at increased risk for atrial fibrillation. At the end of a marathon, blood tests commonly show serious damage to the heart muscle. The severe catabolism seen in distance runners is also a serious problem. In my age mates who I run with, we all began to look older than our age. We were all wearing out!

    I hope this answers your questions on the impact of LSD on Parkinson's and general health.

  3. #13
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    To echo the OP, my friends dad has Parkinsons. He is probably in his early to mid 60's. Back in his day he was a professional powerlifter. I don't know the detail of what he does in the gym today, but he still squats heavy even at his age. He said that heavy weight training is the best thing he has been doing for his parkinsons disease.

  4. #14
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    Based on the pathogenesis of Parkinson's I don't see how endurance training could be responsible for it. People who have dementia pugilistica (like boxers and football players) from repeated head trauma can have "parkinsonism" among their symptoms -- but this is due to repeated head trauma that is way out of proportion to the jostling one might get from trail running.

    Anyway, in principle I don't see any reason not to do weight training, but it depends first and foremost on how functional you are. The motor problems in Parkinson's are mainly at rest -- and they get better when you initiate movement. The midbrain's suppression of unwanted movements is deficient in Parkinson's, but this can be somewhat overcome when you send a more deliberate motor signal to the muscles -- so, for instance, many patients have this "pill rolling" tremor in their fingers, but when they point or write or something it gets suppressed.

    This leads me to think that lifting a weight will actually suppress the symptoms while the weight is being lifted. It isn't going to really do anything for the disease itself -- I mean if the problem is dopamine deficiency in the substantia nigra of your midbrain, then no squat is going to fix that. But if you're stronger and fitter it's only going to help you maintain mobility and functionality for longer.

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  6. #16
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    Xultrarunner, are you on l-dopa?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul1 View Post
    Anyway, in principle I don't see any reason not to do weight training, but it depends first and foremost on how functional you are.
    Paul, this typical doctorspeak bullshit is not helpful. The fact that you don't see any reason not to do the thing he said has helped him the most is one of the reasons we don't like most doctors on this board.

  8. #18
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    You know it seems fairly obvious to me that pretty much any disease that is the result of cell death due, in part or in whole, to bioenergetic dysfunction (i.e. mitochonria issues) will improve with training, which improves mitochondrial function (and ATP generation on the whole) through various mechanisms. It's known that in Parkinson's patients that dopamine (DA) release increases from the remaining neurons if their metabolism is maintained/improved. It's cool to read about this stuff and I'd love to hear more xultra.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul1 View Post
    Based on the pathogenesis of Parkinson's I don't see how endurance training could be responsible for it.
    What he's telling us is not that his running was responsible for his Parkinson's, but that the culture and expectations of running - having a low body mass overall, and along with that low lean mass - this makes Parkinson's worse. He says,

    "muscle atrophy and weight loss are serious problems with this disease and I suffered from both problems"

    Similarly, muscle loss is a problem with ageing generally, so much so that there's even a medical name for it - sarcopenia. With any process of degeneration, whether it be normal ageing or a disease like this, if the person can be degenerating from a high point rather than low, and if they can fight it with their own actions, they'll be better off.

    On any of your placements, did you ever deal with infirm elderly, ever have to help someone on and off the toilet? If those people had done some squatting when they were younger, and kept it up - not squatting 405 or anything, just 20-30 goblet squats with say 25lbs each day - do you think you'd still have had to help them on and off the toilet?

    Aside from acute injuries, movement always helps. Being stronger always helps.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Xultrarunner View Post
    If there is interest, I can flesh this out in greater detail.
    Absolutely. I am sending this info to a friend of mine who is starting to suffer greatly from Parkinsons. Even though he is a retired coach, used to lift, I don't seem to be able to interest him in it again. Perhaps this could be what lights a fire under his butt.

    Thank you.

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