Strength and Sprinting

[jkolt]

Rip,

Justin Gaitlin is setting PRs and world records in the 100M sprint at 32.This is unprecedented in sprinting, and made me think about the effects of steroids, and therefore strength, on sprinting.

You've said that the SVJ is not improved much by increasing squat strength because the ability to recruit muscle fiber instantaneously is genetically determined.

Do you have the same view in regards to sprinting? It would seem that the heavily geared running populations does run faster (at least anecdotally). And if for some reason performance enhancing drugs don't make sprinters faster, then the athletes are taking a tremendously stupid risk with their bodies and careers.

How do we reconcile the two points? If strength helps you run faster (by decreasing the fraction of your 1rm per step but does not help you jump higher, what is point where neuromuscular control becomes the limiting factor in performance? How can we know?

While I came up with this question solely to satisfy my curiosity, I think it matters when setting training protocols for advanced athletes. If the squat doesn't improve performance after a certain limit for a given sport, I don't think a trainer would wisely want to waste time and energy moving the squat past that points, whatever is may be.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Seems that your question boils down to the neuromuscular difference between the SVJ and sprinting. The obvious difference is the opportunity to accumulate momentum, sprint vs SVJ. It also appears that you are accusing Mr. Gaitlin of taking steroids. Both the SVJ and elite sprint performance are completely dependent on genetics. Strength helps both, to the limited extent possible, but a competitor has to work to improve any way he can. Sprinting responds to coaching and mechanics improvement, while the SVJ doesn't very much, and that's why the SVJ is a test of genetic capacity. To the extent that strength improves both, steroids do too. So, what?

[Dave Longley]

It's not unprecedented. Linford Christie won an Olympic Gold in the 100m at age 32, World Championship at 33.

Michael Johnson won the 400m at 32 at the Sydney 2000 games.

Probably other examples too, but they leapt out to me.

[51M0n]

It also appears that you are accusing Mr. Gaitlin of taking steroids.

It's not an accusation, it's a fact, given he was banned for taking steroids in the past. Interesting that he's running as fast now as he was when he was busted for doping...

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, a ban is proof positive of steroid use.

[Jailhouse Hopkins]

Rip, to keep this thread on track, do you suggest any different programming for mere mortals wishing to improve speed? (Genetics and improved technique aside)

[risepmj]

To make straight,JG has setted the World Leading record for this year not the world record.
I'm not correct at all but i personally realized that strength is not a major issue in the sprinting.I have seen by tracing their weight room training,training methods and historys that most top sprinters have no strength at all rather they are all from the genetics,mechanics and sprint training.

Here are what i am thinkings for sprinters now and some ramblings.
-Top5 sprinters are weak.Usain bolt does smith machine 1/4 squats,60kg arm hangclean for 10reps.
Yohan blake does heavy partial leg press.
Tyson gay does Woble board squat and push ups.
Asafa powell does light DB lunge.
Justin gatlin does 400pounds quater squat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYQQv7j2QIw
I have seen these types of training on the Internet.I am not saying it's all their weight room training by just seeing the part of the training.But we can assume that how they approach to the strength training.And you can see world class sprinter doing weird things in the weight room.

-Usain bolt setted the world recrod in just one year(10.07->9.72) at 2007 to 2008 by just improving his mechanics.
If you are professional at sprinting,you will know that dropping the recrod 10.07 to 9.72 are an insane.
Usain and his coach said that improving his posture,improving start mechanics and focusing the 100m have helped him for world record that time.And how much someone can improve their strength while doing everyday high volume sprint training in one year?

-There are some relatively strong sprinters than the others but they are mostly bitten by a weak skinny sprinters.
I have seen it much.For example,English sprinter Dwain chambers who is able to 40"+ vertical jump and Harry AA who is able to
Power clean 160kg and 200kg front squat(I know but some strength are there i think) are not very good sprinters.
They are always bitten by like Christope lemeitre who is no muscles on the body and other skinny athletes.Even their mechanics is not different much.Dwain exhibit good sprint mechanics but not so fast much at international levels.

Another good examples is Japanise sprinters.They are domiate for Asia by only focusing mechanics and sprinting while not doing weight room training.They are very lean and no strength but has very good records for Asian.We South Korea sprinters always bitten by Japanise sprinters even we are much more stronger and carryed much more muscle than them.

-Sprint mechanics is very important,but there are some limitation for this also.
There are no big difference in mechanics to the international sprinters.i.e.(Between Usain Bolt and 10.00 levels sprinters's mechanics are not different much if you see closely)it's a genetics+some mechanics.

-Personally experience as a sprinter,I got slower even with a increased strength.Squats 130kg->190kg.DL140kg->225kg.
I think every variables are same like mechanics,sprint volume ect.I putted body weight 10kg(BF is almost same) and got strength.
but i got slower 10.6->11.3. I'm not blaming the strength training.It just happend to me.I assume i got excessive muscle mass that
Other sprinters said that to me "you've got muscle,but you looking slower than before"

-World trending is changed that less muscle mass and lean body is very important for a sprinter.If you are track fan,you will see that
rising star and good athletes are so lean and looking has no strength.Also Justin gatlin said that reducing body weight has helped him much though his upper body so jacked.

-I still sure that strength is major issue for all athleticism like sprinting and strength is able to improve sprinting for force production on the ground and maintaining for posture like back to the leg mechanics but genetics is much more than that unfortunately...
Certainly,you can improve a sprint record by adding strength training
.i.e.Genetics+mechanics+sprint training+strength training vs genetics+mechanis+sprint training.
first one is a little better

Lastly,I think blaming Justin gatlin is no more make sense.He has no benefits from steroids that he took 9 years ago..

[Mark Rippetoe]

Rip, to keep this thread on track, do you suggest any different programming for mere mortals wishing to improve speed? (Genetics and improved technique aside)

Get stronger. And get better genetics. It helps to have tibias longer than your femurs.

[gadders]

I was listening to a Joe DeFranco podcast from a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about how people said he athletes had under-developed legs. From memory, his response was that their thighs are muscular but you can't really see them, as they tend to wear baggy shorts that hang down to their knees. He also said that he liked athletes that had the look of under-developed calves with "a little golf ball of muscle right at the top" as this indicated long achilles tendons with a high insertion point for better jumping ability.


Good luck being able to train that.

[Dave Longley]

Again, we come back to whether of not the sprint coaches know how to implement a proper strength training program when dealing with genetic freaks who'd be fast regardless.

The way they do the lifts would indicate that whoever showed them, doesn't know how.