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Thread: Rip do you agree with Crowder's views on Muslims?

  1. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simma Park View Post
    Please provide examples of ISIS apologists.
    Here are some professors at UCSB: https://thebottomline.as.ucsb.edu/20...comment-page-1

    -RJP

  2. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Islam never had it's Reformation. But El Sisi in Egypt is calling for one.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6508808.html

    Perhaps this may be the start of something good.
    Mustafa Kemal Atatürk did magnificent work in secularizing and modernizing Turkey. But it had to be maintained under the watchful gaze of the army. The moment Turkey's democratic forces gained upper hand over the army, they democratically (and ironically) started the process of reverting back to their regressive past. Arab spring and the history of Pakistan are other examples. All this points to the simple fact that Islamic societies democratically choose to be regressive, even if they seem to profess otherwise.

    Islam is a set of rigid rules that govern every aspect of life from societal governance to personal hygiene, it has sacred book has remained unchanged over the centuries (unlike most other religions which have vague origins) as the ultimate authority, the ultimate book is not subjected to different interpretations because it's preaching can be traced back to the actions of its founder for reference and it lacks any abstract philosophical principles which allows it to adapt itself to changing times and evolving civilization. That's why it's very unlikely that Islam will ever see the sort of reform like Christianity had post dark ages.

  3. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giri View Post
    Mustafa Kemal Atatürk did magnificent work in secularizing and modernizing Turkey. But it had to be maintained under the watchful gaze of the army. The moment Turkey's democratic forces gained upper hand over the army, they democratically (and ironically) started the process of reverting back to their regressive past. Arab spring and the history of Pakistan are other examples. All this points to the simple fact that Islamic societies democratically choose to be regressive, even if they seem to profess otherwise.

    Islam is a set of rigid rules that govern every aspect of life from societal governance to personal hygiene, it has sacred book has remained unchanged over the centuries (unlike most other religions which have vague origins) as the ultimate authority, the ultimate book is not subjected to different interpretations because it's preaching can be traced back to the actions of its founder for reference and it lacks any abstract philosophical principles which allows it to adapt itself to changing times and evolving civilization. That's why it's very unlikely that Islam will ever see the sort of reform like Christianity had post dark ages.
    Until Martin Luther and John Calvin (to name just two of a larger number) came along, this was true of Christianity too. The Reformation and Counter-Reformation had many of the same effects you describe as unique to Islam. Spain being an excellent example and the Thirty Years War all over Europe showing that Protestants were just as capable as Catholics of reverting to a regressive past. Right down to burning people at the stake and religious loyalty tests and oaths by both sides. In fact, that very splintering of Christendom allowed the Ottomans to expand all over the Mediterranean because of the resulting inability of Christians to get all their shit in one sock and act together.

    As for Pakistan, I would argue that there is an active civil war inside that nation for dominance of the state vs. Islam. Witness the Pakistani anti-terrorist official who was blown up just lately.

  4. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Until Martin Luther and John Calvin (to name just two of a larger number) came along, this was true of Christianity too. The Reformation and Counter-Reformation had many of the same effects you describe as unique to Islam. Spain being an excellent example and the Thirty Years War all over Europe showing that Protestants were just as capable as Catholics of reverting to a regressive past. Right down to burning people at the stake and religious loyalty tests and oaths by both sides. In fact, that very splintering of Christendom allowed the Ottomans to expand all over the Mediterranean because of the resulting inability of Christians to get all their shit in one sock and act together.

    As for Pakistan, I would argue that there is an active civil war inside that nation for dominance of the state vs. Islam. Witness the Pakistani anti-terrorist official who was blown up just lately.
    It took Christian nations 1600 years to reach enlightenment. And that too just at the same time as Galileo propounded helio-centric theory. It needed immense will and honesty on the part of the society and the rulers to accept facts that were polar opposite to what they grew up believing. It's 1300 years since Islam was born. The leadership of ISIS and al Qaeda are born into education and yet they choose to follow the opposite path and willingly so. Even look at Sikhism that was born in 15th century, it never needed any reform to begin with!

    Most westerners fail to understand the dishonorable circus that is Pakistan. Consider the fact that it is the leading partner in the fight against terrorism that received billions of dollars of money from US to fight al Qaeda. The very same US dollars were used to protect bin Laden while they funded terror groups that killed US soldiers in order to squeeze US for more funds, ostensibly to fight terrorists! Richard Clarke, the former chief counter-terrorism adviser had a good idea and as did Hillary Clinton.

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