Sometimes Geezer Red Leader nails things so succinctly it makes me wish I had a more better vocabulary or whatever.Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling
Member
But what about our own Rob Miller? He is a "brick" and "old" and still a climbing genius! No one would ever accuse him of being "skinny", but he has very low body fat, just lots of muscle, which he puts to good use on the rock!
To paraphrase an old quote: If you can climb all day, it doesn't matter if you can't make the move.
Muscle allows you to make the move.
Member
Sometimes Geezer Red Leader nails things so succinctly it makes me wish I had a more better vocabulary or whatever.
Member
I'm a recovering skinny bastard and used to climb as well and cannot see how getting stronger is going to hurt you climbing so long as you do not put on a bunch of fat. Sure, you might develops an actual ass for the first time in your life, which may temporarily affect things like pull ups, but there is no reason why someone cannot maintain the relative strength needed to continue climbing.
The reason that climbers tend to be skinny is because they are weak and adding weight would stop them in their tracks. Sure they can do crazy stuff with their bodies, but the actual weight they are moving is nothing.
Just look at many gymnasts. Those guys are able to do things that require much more strength than climber, but are generally much heavier. Many of the old time strongmen could do things like one handed hand stands.
This guy is not exactly petite and can do some amazing bodyweight skills. These are his PR's from 5 years ago.
So what are your best lifts then? « Bodyweight Strength Training « Beast Skills
Member
You are correct.
My only question all along was about the biochemistry of the foggy brain feeling.
TMPHBITEU
Maybe your blood sugar is low.
Member
Message from Rob Miller
Rob asked me to post this:
Gene!
Could you do me a favor and post this for me? I'm having technical difficulties and out climbing. I did happen across the brain fog question.
Best, Rob
Spiderman,
Everyone has the body they have. Duh, right?! Well, why compare to others? Make the most of what you got. For instance, Chris Sharma prefers being heavier because he finds he's more powerful with the added muscle mass. There's no need to go into details like his bodyweight, height and his skinny legs because there's no value for either you or I in those details; nor Adam's as you site. We have our own physiology, segment lengths, etc...
My background:
I'm also older...46, and have been climbing for 25 years. I climb better, stronger now than I ever have. Much to my surprise 15 years ago, I became aware that I climb my best (14a, boulder V10 and send 13+ on el cap) all at 190+ 5'10". Being lean and a hard gainer, I can dwindle to 176. (Yikes!) I know what you mean about the feeling of force feeding yourself!
I'm aware I'm giving you details about me when I said details of other climbers do not matter. But you and I have more in common than either Chris or Adam because we are both using the barbell to train for climbing. We are also older and hard gainers. So....
As a climber I use a barbell to improve my general strength for climbing performance. I do not use volume days in my intermediate programming as a lifter because my goal is to improve my climbing. In fact, I will never actually be an intermediate lifter as long as I am a dedicated climber; I do use non-novice programming though. By using LOW volume (sets of triples and singles at a higher intensity) to drive my 5RM, I can tolerate the total workload of being a climber much better. I do use high volume climbing days at my absolute intensity to drive adaptation. {{Meaning, I don't eff around with a bunch of volume at V7 or V8 when I'm projecting V9s and V10. All volume...both light days and heavy days...are done at my absolute limit during training cycles.}}
Use Andy Bakers advice on programming for older folks who cannot tolerate volume; it's been extremely helpful for me as an advanced climber who has to balance his training workload with his climbing workload during training cycles. His advice often comes up on Best of the Forum (which has been a great added feature to the site btw).
The other thing that may potentially help with the brain fog hangover has already been mentioned: you've got to eat!! Sufficient caloric intake will win every time over caloric restriction. Climbers who use the faulty logic of caloric restriction cannot sustain performance gains forever and they eventually suffer erratic performance (which does bad things to the mind when you think the days performance has anything to do with what the scale says that morning). The good climbers I know, know this to be true.
Rob Miller
Member
I wouldn't assume that adding the weight will hurt your climbing performance that much. Comparing yourself to Adam Ondra seems sort of silly. Even Chris Sharma has a bigger build than you do right now at 6'0" and around 165, and it doesn't seem to cause him any problems. Dani Andrada is a lot bigger than you. Beyond that, when's the last time you climbed 5.15?
I haven't been climbing much in the past couple of years, so I can't speak from first hand experience, but I know several people who climb 5.12 and 5.13 sport who are 200+ pounds. You should let yourself grow. You might even get better.
Member
I know folks around here default to "strong is better don't worry about what you weigh" but not all the evidence points in that direction for climbing.
I think there may be a misunderstanding. I have become heavier due to weight training and I definitely improved as a climber going from 165 lbs to 175 lbs from upper-body-only dumbell and abs workouts. I went from bouldering about V8 to doing a few V10 and V11 problems. Going from 175 lbs to 185 lbs from barbell work and getting my squat to 315 x 5 x 3, etc, has not given such obvious improvements. I think I'm more solid in the grades I can climb even though I'm older but I haven't broken through to a definitive new level where, for example, I'm doing a new V10 each month. I have been up to 190 lbs (which put my BMI slightly above Sharma's according to a previous post's data) and was not climbing as well as I am now at 183 lbs. I'm a case study so other factors than body weight could have been the reason but I don't have any evidence yet that being over 185 lbs helps me. My best climbing in the past few years was after 1 month of no weight training and dieting down to 177 lbs. I would like to know that being 195 lbs would be a better climbing weight for me but since 185 lbs isn't definitively better for me than 175 lbs, its hard to believe getting up to 195 lbs will help. Gambling a whole season's performance isn't something I can do without consideration.
I know another climber much bigger bone built than me who is about 6'4" and was down to about 195 lbs on a strict diet. At that point he was sending a few V9 problems and flirting with V10. He started barbell training and worked up to a 500 lbs deadlift at about 235 lbs body weight. His climbing ability has sunk way down to V5. It is partly due to spending less time climbing and more time weight training but it is also due to the weight gain.
I know another climber who is a lean 220 lbs and climbs well at the V10 and V11 grades. He has a big barrel rib cage and is muscular.
The climbing community's mentality will change if more successful climber's prove that the added muscle bulk from barbell training helps. I know other sports have gone through the discovery of being stronger and performing better. I've really been adventurous and in a tiny minority of climbers even going to the gym to train with a barbell. People look at me as if I have two heads when I mention it. I've been hoping to prove it is my secret training weapon but no one has yet said to me "how they hell did you make such a huge improvement over the last few years?" Barbell training has helped me, I think, but every pound of body weight gain needs to prove itself as beneficial.
TMPHBITEU
Perhaps strength is not your limiting factor. Perhaps you are just not a talented climber.
Member
Since I have bouldered at about the same level of difficulty as Rob Miller, it appears you just suggested he may not be a talented climber. Would you propose that is why he hasn't climbed harder? I mean that as a serious question. No sarcasm or anything like that.
Strength may not be my limiting factor anymore. It certainly was in my jump from 165 lbs to 175 lbs. I do still think strength to weight ratio is my limiting factor and I'm trying to improve.
I as far as talent goes, that is a spectrum and I'm not at the top but I'm certainly not at the bottom either. My natural athletic ability for things like hand eye coordination and body awareness is not as good as some exceptional climbers I know. Climbing practice helps train that and I wouldn't classify myself as a pathetic klutz.
Posting Permissions