IWF 2015 World Championships

[Heavy_Duty]

allthingsgym has a link to the live stream if you guys are interested

[stuffedsuperdud]

These are technique lifts, after all. Strength is secondary.

The "USAW doesn't care about strength" thing held water in 2010 maybe, but probably not anymore, given that everyone has seen a bajillion videos of Klokov & Friends chasing 700lb squats, and 400lb+ for the bigger girls. And our guys are (finally) regularly posting squat PRs themselves, even if they're still about 50lbs or so off the international standard for their weight. Incidentally, that might be why our guys are finally breaking into A-sessions at some international events. So it turns out strength does matter a lot but everyone has been onboard with that for a while now. The horse is already at the glue factory and really all that's left of that dispute at this point is an apology from certain USAW officials. But they've already switched gears towards a new petty squabble in the form of team-selection protocols, because sometimes you really can't fix stupid.

If you're simply referring to something Mikaeka Breeze said though:
1. She's a terrible announcer whose day job is to coach new lifters, so of course she'll blather endlessly about technique. Also, she's a terrible announcer. Yes, I said that twice. #NonEvans4Lyfe

2. Why are you watching Europsport? That's only for British colonies who waited for their own independence instead of inciting a poorly-justified armed rebellion, and then fighting it with blatant disregard to the era's rules of war. Like a boss. The ESPN coverage has Randy Strossen and Dragomir Cioroslan. Much better. Same inexperienced cameramen though.

[Tom DiStasio]

Incidentally, that might be why our guys are finally breaking into A-sessions at some international events. So it turns out strength does matter a lot but everyone has been onboard with that for a while now.

Strength matters, but its not the primary concern (as Brodie said, its secondary). Yes, most of our Olympic lifters are trying to get stronger. But to what extent? I think that is the argument to look at.

Yes, if a guy is squatting 200kg, he's trying to get to 225kg. But if a guy is squatting 260kg, is he trying to get to 285kg? I'm not sure if this is the case. And if it is the case, then at what cost are they willing to push to get there? Are American lifters okay with taking 1 year out of a quad to get their squat up 25kg at the expense of some resources to be used for technical work? I guess you'd have to ask our top American weightlifters, but based on what I see, I don't think many coaches put strength as the #1 priority.

Also, what meets have our guys cracked into the A sessions yet?

[stuffedsuperdud]

Strength matters, but its not the primary concern (as Brodie said, its secondary). Yes, most of our Olympic lifters are trying to get stronger. But to what extent? I think that is the argument to look at.

So the disagreement is over programming then? That's certainly a fair point of contention, and much more reasonable than the old "These people have their heads in the sand and don't care about strength why can't they see the obvious problem here" thing, which was the more common layman sentiment at some point. My apologies if I misunderstood Brodie's sarcasm; I thought he was inexplicably doing an impression of this site from 5 years ago. Hey, whatever happened to ImmortalK?

While we're on the topic though, at the international level, you don't think programming for what are at the end of the day assistance exercises is a difficult problem? (why did Mary stop updating her log, btw? I liked following it) How varied is the cost-benefit ratio of going from 260 to 285 for a squat or 280 to 300 for a DL when you're a 165/205-ish man, as our top 94s are? My guess is it's an extremely individualized puzzle and I certainly wouldn't know how to do it; I do know better than to assume that adding x kg to squat/DL will translate to, say, 0.6x to snatch and 0.7x to CJ though. The thing is, I don't think many, if anyone, can answer this question clearly either, including celebrity coaches like Ni or Rigert. Heck, now that the Soviet programming system is laid bare, it seems like there's nothing particularly magical in there; just 3 days a week of sn/cj + assistance and 3 days a week of squat/push/pull with emphasis on triples and not on 1RM testing, so maybe the answer is simply that you need a Klokov or an Ilin to walk in the front door when they're 12 years old and then pay him well enough so that he doesn't have a life outside of this decidedly unexciting program for 20 years?

Also, what meets have our guys cracked into the A sessions yet?

By "guys" I meant everyone with USA on their shirt, so can we count Jenny Arthur and Geralee Vega? On the men's side, I haven't followed some of the more obscure stuff, e.g. IWF Grand Prix whatever, so...do Pan-Am's count? It's a smaller event, and sometimes they only have an A-session, sure, but nonetheless, our team hung with the best from traditional powerhouses like Cuba and Colombia this year and the USA medal count was much higher than previously, including a freaken gold, right? And our 94/105 guys open in the 160/190 territory now, which is comparable to the low end of the A-sessions at bigger international meets such as the European or Asian Championships/Games. Our guys just don't go to those. What are Derrick Johnson and the Barnes brothers up to, btw? I don't follow the lighter classes as much but their names seem to pop up at IWF events here and there. They're able to hang internationally and not embarrass themselves by coming in 17th or whatever out of the D session, right? That's all I got for ya; I don't know how to do the statistical analysis on this, but doesn't it seem reasonable to at least hypothesize from the raw data that the situation is better than it was 5 years ago, for various reasons, including programming? I could be wrong.

[limace31]

A commentator on the French TV today:

"Je préfère voir des athlètes qui vont finir 3, 4, 5ème avec une technique parfaite que des athlètes qui tirent un peu n'importe-comment et qui font des barres supérieures."

==> "I prefer to see athletes who will finish 3rd, 4th, 5th with perfect technique than stronger ones who lift heavier bars with poor technique."

[Dave Longley]

If you're simply referring to something Mikaeka Breeze said though:
1. She's a terrible announcer whose day job is to coach new lifters, so of course she'll blather endlessly about technique. Also, she's a terrible announcer. Yes, I said that twice. #NonEvans4Lyfe

2. Why are you watching Europsport? That's only for British colonies who waited for their own independence instead of inciting a poorly-justified armed rebellion, and then fighting it with blatant disregard to the era's rules of war. Like a boss. The ESPN coverage has Randy Strossen and Dragomir Cioroslan. Much better. Same inexperienced cameramen though.

I'm watching Eurosport because, fuck it.

Michaela Breeze came out with this gem: "It's almost as if she's too strong...."

[Tom DiStasio]

@stuffedsuperdud You ask a few interesting questions, but I think at the heart of this is the issue of how athletic the athlete in question is. If he/she is a genetic freak with amazing ability to recruit motor units (i.e. a great SVJ) then this has implications on training. If the athlete is not as gifted, this also has implications on training and leads to other implications on training. It is my stance that those who are lesser athletes need more work on strength. They also need more work on technique. They need more work on everything. As in any other sport, in order to hang with those who are naturally gifted, those who are not as gifted have to work harder. Since we in the USA don't have the same selection system for Weightlifting as say China or Russia, we are not always handed the best athletes (this is changing though I think). As such, we need more focus on strength even when our athletes are already getting stronger. Better athletes are going to work well with what they have in terms of strength. Lesser athletes have to work harder to get stronger and have better technique in order to have a shot to hang with the big dogs.

The tough part is that better athletes tend to also be naturally stronger.

In response to the notion about us getting better as a country in the last 5 years, I'm not so sure this is true. We have had some really good lifters in the past (men and women). They just didn't get as much attention because social media wasn't as prevalent. I mean shit, Tara Knott won a goddamn gold medal at the olympics. Cheryl Haworth won a Bronze. Shane Hamman totaled 430kg. We had some good lifters over the past 15 years. We have good lifter now too, but only Jenny Arthur and Sarah Robles are in the A session. Garalee retired.

[stuffedsuperdud]

As such, we need more focus on strength even when our athletes are already getting stronger. Better athletes are going to work well with what they have in terms of strength. Lesser athletes have to work harder to get stronger and have better technique in order to have a shot to hang with the big dogs.

The tough part is that better athletes tend to also be naturally stronger.

Ugh yea I figured there's no magic pill. As far as lesser athletes catching up, e.g. by squatting his face off while Ilya Ilin is busy drinking in Astana nightclubs and Klokov is, in a money sport I imagine there's tons of incentive for a lesser athlete to outwork the superstar (Jerry Rice, anyone?), but in lifting? In lifting, a 105 lifter in the US with a college degree from UCCS or something doesn't have much incentive to go full-retard and try to catch the 190/230 Belarusrian guy who does what he does to put food on the table. Maybe that will change when weightlifting picks up all the social/financial/human infrastructure components that bigger sports like swimming or track currently enjoy.

In response to the notion about us getting better as a country in the last 5 years, I'm not so sure this is true. We have had some really good lifters in the past (men and women). They just didn't get as much attention because social media wasn't as prevalent. I mean shit, Tara Knott won a goddamn gold medal at the olympics. Cheryl Haworth won a Bronze. Shane Hamman totaled 430kg. We had some good lifters over the past 15 years. We have good lifter now too, but only Jenny Arthur and Sarah Robles are in the A session. Garalee retired.

I actually get a bit emotional when reading about the exploits of the guys from the 1990s and early 2000s, like Shane Hamman, Cheryl Haworth, Tom Gough, Casey Burgener, etc. They kept the flame going when the sport was basically on life support in America; I hope today they feel vindicated by its resurgence...and that they figure out how to turn their experiences into a bit of income, something they probably didn't get to do as active lifters.

That said, look at the top five or so results in each weight category at nationals over the years. I only took a brief glance, so I could be wrong, pending data analysis, but it looks like in years past, there was one stud or studette who dominated the category year after year and then a bunch of also rans, whereas now, the top several lifters are packed together with biggish #s. So we certainly have a sharp improvement in depth, and even former recordholders are slowly being superceded by the ones today. I'm confident that in 10 years, all the records will be held by the people we see on Instagram today. Well, except maybe at SHW. No one will be touching Shane's stuff any time soon. Between his 1000lb squats and the backflips and dunks, he's probably as close as we've ever seen to what you describe as the ideal guy to walk into your gym, and anyone who can replicate that is probably too busy playing left tackle on Sundays.

Too bad about Geralee. Did something bad happen or something? I figured she was going to snatch 101 and sweep the 63kg category any day.

Kind of unrelated, but since you mentioned it, Tara Nott Cunningham and Cheryl Haworth are absolute beasts, no doubt, but the two medals you reference were sort of an anomaly. 2000 was the 1st year that women's weightlifting was an Olympic sport, and we were one of the few nations with some semblance of a women's program; every other country's woman's program was underdeveloped as they generally don't invest heavily in non-Olympic sorts. Look what happened four years later: Tara's total from 2000 would have been good for 6th in 2004, and Cheryl dropped from 3rd to 6th despite adding 10kg to her total. Those annoying Chinese/Korean/Russian/Bulgarian/etc. folks sure can step up their game right quick; hopefully we can do something similar in the next couple of years??

[Tom DiStasio]

@stuffedsuperdud I think I can agree with most of what you're saying. I think our depth is better now and those who put up big numbers for our country in the past were really the cream of the crop. And yes, Tara was in the first olympics, and her numbers wouldn't win gold now, but she was still pretty damn good. Women's weightlifting is improving at a very fast rate (especially with the Chinese setting the pace...man they are good). I think there is hope for USA and we can get better someday. Its just going to take a lot of hard work and some special athletes. I'm really looking forward to seeing CJ Cummings grow up and see where he goes. Mattie Rogers is also pretty phenomenal, along with Jenny Arthur. We have some talent, but on the whole I think we can do a better job of coaching our young talent and fostering a competitive atmosphere to breed champions as they grow older. It'll take a lot of work by the coaches as well.

Based on what I see on Instagram, I think Garalee has retired and is in the process of undergoing a sex change. She was pretty awesome, but I think she was getting a little burnt out and looking to move on. I'm not too good with Spanish, but she might be trying to be a body builder now.

[Chris McCarthy]

I enjoyed the coverage. I watched most of the "A" Sessions on the Russian Eurosport feed so Breeze and Goldstrom weren't a problem - it was nice in the "old days" to have live commentary to give you a bit of atmosphere and up-to-date happenings but with today's social media I don't find that necessary any more. Mind you, of course, I would expect any commentary to try and cater to the uninitiated otherwise it doesn't really have much value.

Out of interest who was the guy doing the MC Role in Houston?