Kyle Mask: Why (Almost) Nobody Should Pull Sumo

[Les Hahn]

Some organizations may ditch the bench altogether and replace it with the OH press. Could you imagine?

I hope not! I like powerlifting the way it is. Rip's Strengthlifting event is different, since it is new. I wouldn't want the UPA or NASA (the organizations I normally compete in) to just change the rules one day.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Fear not.

[Meshuggah]

Some organizations may ditch the bench altogether and replace it with the OH press. Could you imagine?

That would be Great, the Standing Overhead Press Rules. The bench press wrecks shoulders.
And FWIW, I pull Conventional, but I use Sumo sometimes as an assistance exercise.

[SivariKing]

This article is timely for me. Confession: I neglected my conventional pull for about a year and a half. I wanted to set an Illinois powerlifting record, and pulled sumo to make my deadlift respectable. I managed 562 in the meet and got the record.

Then, at the Coaches' Conference, Robert Santana, Nick D'Agostino, and Steve Hill (among others) conspired to try to fix my conventional deadlift. It turns out, with a 1RM of 562 sumo, my conventional pull had regressed to the point where I couldn't even break 450 off the floor. My posterior chain and back development went backwards. I think you've got to pull conventional, even if you pull sumo in meets.

Great article, Kyle.

How is it possible to have this big a difference between the two styles? Is sumo that much more a "technique" lift than conventional? I have long arms, and conventional deadlift is the only lift that for me doesn't regress much, even if i stop training it. So maybe for people with short arms, the conventional goes down faster if not trained, since the lower back is taxed more (duh, yeah I know).

[Gerhard]

Good article, it is however attracting some negativity in places like Reddit. Each to their own - I think Kyle makes some valid points.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Think of it this way: it is attracting readers.

[hollismb]

Good article, it is however attracting some negativity in places like Reddit. Each to their own - I think Kyle makes some valid points.

Ah yes, Reddit commenters...

Think of it this way: it is attracting readers.

I think you may be giving them too much credit.

[KyleMask]

it is however attracting some negativity in places like Reddit

This sort of thing is inevitable when one actually defends a position rather than encouraging people to do whatever they like.

[Michael Wolf]

It is not our fault that EMG studies are incorrect, since they obviously are. EMG studies famously prove that the hamstrings are not involved in the squat. Once again, I'll ask for someone to post the paper that "PROVES" or even demonstrates that surface EMG is a reliable analog for motor unit activity.

It seems that some work has been done showing that there are significant problems and limitations when it comes to using EMG as an indicator of motor unit recruitment. Perhaps someone who has access to the full articles can comment in greater depth and detail about whether the studies actually show what the abstracts claim they show, but in addition to the study you like to point out that showed no difference in 1RM and EMG muscle activity data between a bench press performed on a stable vs unstable surface (stability ball), we also have:
1. Detection of motor unit action potentials with surface electrodes: influence of electrode size and spacing - Springer
2. ARTICLES | Journal of Applied Physiology

Yet lots of people continue to cite EMG data as, at least, a validation of their claims, and often as the entire or most important basis of their claims. This seems disingenuous.

[danlightbulb]

I'm particularly interested in this bit of the article:

Naturally, there are anthropometric outliers for whom the conventional deadlift presents an insurmountable obstacle. If you set up properly for a deadlift and your shoulders are lower than your hips, sure, you probably need to pull sumo. But there aren’t many folks with the odd combination of long femurs and midget arms, so this isn’t you.

There may not be many folks to whom this applies, but there are some of us that have this problem. Its something I'd really like the SS program to address, because I would like to know for sure whether I should be trying some sumo deadlifting and if so, what the right technique would be.