Deadlift

[Joe Jaloszynski]

http://startingstrength.com/articles...n_rippetoe.pdf seems like a good place to start.

[Troy May]

As the trainee becomes more adapted to workloads and the stress they impose they move further up the training complexity curve so to speak and increased frequency would be part of that increased complexity. Even though they're lifting more frequently than a novice they would also be adjusting other variables such as rep and set volume to continue to drive adaptation and recovery. A long way of saying as you get stronger shit gets more complicated to continue getting stronger.


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[Chris Lippke]

I'll take a stab. It's better to be ridiculed and later educated than to be cowardly and forever ignorant.

Novice:
- When a novice starts deadlifting, it is such that the stress is enough to disrupt homeostasis and the recovery/adaptation is quick (48-72 hours). As such, the deadlift is done every workout at ~10-15 lb jumps.
- After the first couple weeks, and after "the freshness of the deadlift has worn off a little and after the quick initial gains establish the deadlift well ahead of the squat," the power clean is introduced and works synergistically with the deadlift so that both improve.
- The stress of the pulling exercises becomes so much (due to frequency AND because of the nature of its pairing w/ the other lifts which are still done for intensity at this point???) that pulling frequency is reduced to every other workout (deadlift 1X in 9-10 days) to allow for better recovery.

From PPST 3rd ed.:
"At [the novice] level, the amount of work that disrupts [homeostasis]... can be applied in one workout."
"... if progress is to continue, training must be reorganized into periods of work that constitute a recoverable overload"
"involves... enough work to accumulate into sufficient stress to constitute an overload event"
(emphasis mine, point is that it may not be a specific exercise that causes the stress, but an intentional combination of different exercises or accumulation of one exercise)

Intermediate (I'll miss some points I'm sure):
- Shit's easier to fit into a weekly schedule for logistical reasons.
- Perhaps an increase in the frequency of a certain lift is required to disrupt homeostasis over the longer stress/adaptation cycle indicative of an intermediate?
- Programming may be such that not every day is an intensity day (compared to the novice) so deadlifts can be done in a fresher state.
- Programming may be such that the trainee wants to specialize in deadlifts so has to schedule it (or its variants) more frequently.
- Intermediates "might set up to 6 different deadlift variants" (Tho, I hear that at WFAC, 6 is it. No more... no less... If you use 5, you'd better have a 6th planned. If you use 7... dead.), so recovery may be quicker when compared to a standard deadlift.

Is any of that accurate?

[Tzal]

I train it everyday because I am a huge badass and stayed at 135 the last three years. Linear progression does not require the line to move up.

[PrimalFish]

Maybe its because in novice progression, you're making gains in your squats and presses 3 (or 2) times a week and it starts to get heavy. It can be very draining. It's nice to have a break from pulling from the floor every other workout so you can keep progressing overall, especially on the squats. On TM maybe you can pull from the floor slightly more often because the program allows for more recovery and you aren't trying to make such aggressive gains in your other lifts, compared to novice programming.

[Joe Jaloszynski]

Can we discuss the every 5th day claim? I'm confused because that not how I understand the SS novice linear progression program.

[Will Morris]

Can we discuss the every 5th day claim? I'm confused because that not how I understand the SS novice linear progression program.

There really is no reason to discuss it because it bears no semblance to the novice program taught by our association.

[RandallEW]

Can we discuss the every 5th day claim? I'm confused because that not how I understand the SS novice linear progression program.

There really is no reason to discuss it because it bears no semblance to the novice program taught by our association.

I remember seeing a sample training log that showed deadlifts on the first session and again on the fifth session, and accompanying text described deadlifting every 5th workout. It caught my eye, but I realized it was just a mistake or typo. I don't remember where I saw it, though - perhaps an earlier version of SS. I don't have my books with me to check.

[PrimalFish]

Can we discuss the every 5th day claim? I'm confused because that not how I understand the SS novice linear progression program.

The following would have you DL every 5th workout:

Workout A
Squat
Bench
DL/PC

Workout B
Squat
Press
Chins
Back Ext

[quanta]

I'm doing a reLP after a long lay off due to travel and then hand injury. While my cast was on the only exercises I could effectively do were cross-face front squats and GHRs. Now that I'm doing the program again with deadlifts every fourth workout my squat has nearly caught up to my deadlift. Should I tweak the program to deadlift more often/fresher to ''make room'' for the squat, or just accept an additional reset on the squat? I've had squat depth checked the last two workouts and it has been well below parallel.

Current lifts are:
Squat: 305x5
Press:100x5
Bench: 160x5
DL: 320x5
Snatch: 50kgx2 (the injury made finger extension painful, but sufficient flexibility has been regained that I will attempt cleans next workout)

I was thinking an adjusted schedule like this:

Monday
Squat
Press/bench
Cleans

Wednesday
Squat@80%
Press/bench
Deadlift

Friday
Squat
Press/bench
GHRs
Chinups